13:57:15 RRSAgent has joined #i18n 13:57:15 logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/10/07-i18n-irc 13:57:18 Zakim has joined #i18n 13:57:28 trackbot, prepare teleconference 13:57:31 RRSAgent, make logs public 13:57:34 Meeting: Internationalization Working Group Teleconference 13:57:34 Date: 07 October 2021 13:57:39 agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2021Oct/0002.html 13:57:39 clear agenda 13:57:39 agenda+ Agenda Review 13:57:39 agenda+ Action Items 13:57:41 agenda+ Info Share 13:57:43 agenda+ RADAR Review 13:57:45 agenda+ TPAC planning 13:57:47 agenda+ Payment Request, Localizable, etc. 13:57:50 agenda+ "Awaiting Comment Resolution" reviews 13:57:52 agenda+ AOB? 13:57:54 Chair: Addison Phillips 13:59:20 regrets+ JcK, Fatima 13:59:32 regrets+ Fuqiao 13:59:45 regrets+ Fuqiao 14:03:36 scribe+ 14:04:23 regrets+ Felix 14:04:54 zakim, take up agendum 1 14:04:54 agendum 1 -- Agenda Review -- taken up [from agendabot] 14:05:00 zakim, take up agendum 2 14:05:00 agendum 2 -- Action Items -- taken up [from agendabot] 14:06:13 https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open 14:06:45 action-1066? 14:06:45 action-1066 -- Richard Ishida to Move pronunciation-gap-analysis issues to new document -- due 2021-08-26 -- OPEN 14:06:45 https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1066 14:07:19 r12a: catching up... 14:08:02 action-1085? 14:08:02 action-1085 -- Addison Phillips to Respond to media streams and capture transreq with lack of satisfaction -- due 2021-10-07 -- OPEN 14:08:02 https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1085 14:08:06 close action-1085 14:08:06 Closed action-1085. 14:08:22 zakim, take up agendum 3 14:08:22 agendum 3 -- Info Share -- taken up [from agendabot] 14:09:28 https://github.com/w3c/documentreview/issues/24#issuecomment-937678531 14:09:31 r12a: I talked with Philippe yesterday, among other things about how to keep the situation from occurring again, see thread ^^ 14:10:14 ... Groups used to do a disposition of comments, but don't seem to do so anymore. 14:10:52 ... Philippe said it should not be up to the Director to find out about unclosed issues on our tracker. 14:11:40 ... There were also several things going on (family, etc.) at the same time. 14:12:30 ... Philippe suggested groups should send us email when there are things outstanding, before a transtion, whether days or monthts before. 14:13:02 ... That would help our work. We will know that a transition is coming. 14:13:44 ... As long as it is not as short as three days before the transition… 14:14:19 addison: They can go to the tracking tool and see that we haven't closed an issue. That tells them they should take action. 14:14:51 r12a: I think the Web Payments WG didn't look at our tracker at all before requesting the transition. 14:15:52 addison: We weren't satisfied with the issue. And we didn't know when the transition was going to be. 14:16:27 r12a: Another infoshare: 14:17:00 ... Fantasai has escalated the ruby spec issues in HTML to the WHATWG steering committee. 14:19:54 s/Fantasai has escalated the ruby spec issues in HTML to the WHATWG steering committee./What is the future of the ruby spec?/ 14:20:45 atsushi has joined #i18n 14:20:45 addison: Problem seems getting browser vendors to spend time on it. 14:22:48 zakim, take up agendum 4 14:22:48 agendum 4 -- RADAR Review -- taken up [from agendabot] 14:22:57 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1 14:24:16 present+ Atsushi 14:24:31 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/issues/165 14:25:05 addison: I set due date for Secure Payment to tomorrow, they didn't request a specific date. 14:25:17 agenda? 14:25:34 ... We can talk about it next week. 14:25:36 zakim, take up agendum 5 14:25:36 agendum 5 -- TPAC planning -- taken up [from agendabot] 14:26:11 r12a: We planned several meetings. We need to get the list finished. 14:26:46 ... The cvent interface for TPAC shows videos and the calendar. 14:28:06 ... Calendar shows a slot for a joint meeting for us. Scheduling a meeting automatically assigns a Zoom meeting. I need to ask Alex about making a meeting that uses the same Zoom as another. 14:28:43 ... Not easy to make a joint meeting. Can block time on your own agenda, but others don't see it. 14:29:20 ... We had 2 slots for i18n meetings. (It was 3am for me, but now corrected to 3pm.) 14:29:44 ... I'll talk to Alex. 14:29:54 https://www.w3.org/wiki/I18N_2021_TPAC 14:29:58 addison: I'll add the a11y meeting to our wiki. 14:30:18 ... Other joint meetings are CSS and Web Payments. 14:30:54 ... One of our own meetings is at the usual time for our meeting, the other is Tuesday. 14:31:33 r12a: If you tell me when the a11y meeting is, I'll add it to the agenda. 14:32:21 ... And I forwarded you (Addison) a mail I got with a meeting request. 14:32:50 ... Note that the cvent interface requires you to login again every 24 items. 14:33:30 ... When joining a meeting, make sure you leave time for getting an email with your log in code. 14:33:45 addison: Are there links for all this? 14:34:22 agenda? 14:34:31 r12a: Yes, on the TPAC pages. 14:34:31 https://www.w3.org/2021/10/TPAC/ 14:34:49 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/10/07-i18n-minutes.html addison 14:34:59 check out the CVENT calendar pages 14:35:11 action: addison: tell WG to register on CVENT 14:35:12 Created ACTION-1086 - Tell wg to register on cvent [on Addison Phillips - due 2021-10-14]. 14:35:27 please all watch the videos about how TPAC will work 14:36:36 Bert: A question: what is happening with the timezones database? 14:38:24 addison: The maintainer decided to collapse a number of zones together that hadn't differed in a while. Result is that several time zone identifiers disappeared. E.g., no more Oslo, have to use Berlin instead. People were surprised about the change. 14:39:10 ... People are now cherrypicking which changes to keep. 14:39:53 r12a: Why did the maintainer decide to merge zones? 14:40:46 addison: Partly because of the size of the file. Clean up time zone that haven't been different for a long time. 14:41:26 ... Europe really only a handful of rules, not really all these different zones as listed in the database. 14:42:13 ... But governments could in principle change their own rules. Which would make a time zone pop back up. 14:42:52 zakim, take up agendum 6 14:42:52 agendum 6 -- Payment Request, Localizable, etc. -- taken up [from agendabot] 14:43:36 https://github.com/whatwg/webidl/issues/1025 14:44:24 addison: We did attract people's attention to the localization of strings and there are discussions going on now. 14:44:39 r12a: Discussions at different levels. 14:45:02 ... Every spec ought to have a way to add language and direction to text. 14:45:30 ... Other level is whether we stick information at the end of string, e.g. 14:46:38 addison: A lot of the thread is about whether the OS has metadata to put in the string, or whether the OS will use the metadata. It is a chicken-and-egg problem. If you don't have metadata, you can't use it. 14:48:08 ... IDL provides infrastructure for other specs. 14:48:18 ... That seems the right place to put things. 14:48:28 ... But maybe not the only place. 14:49:35 r12a: I've had discussions, with Ian and others. I'm very open to how they do it, the technical ways. What's important is that the metadata exists somewhere. 14:50:06 ... They said it is only two strings, is it important? 14:50:40 ... I said yes. Other specs will look at it, as precedent. 14:51:22 ... They should acknowledge that data is missing and say that they will work on fixing it. 14:52:38 ... Ian said the label is only used on this sheet thing, only used by two companies, and not expected to be developed further. 14:53:47 addison: They are used in Web Payments labels. I saw examples of payment requests with labels defiend in Web Payments. 14:54:07 r12a: I thought they said they would not do that. 14:54:32 ... But even if it is "only" Apple and Google that use this label, that is still a lot. 14:54:45 https://w3c.github.io/secure-payment-confirmation/#sctn-sample-authentication 14:56:55 r12a: WHAT WG discussions about implementing what is spec'ed or spec'ing what is implemented. 14:58:12 addison: I had discussions about a backwards-compatible way to specify a localizable string. 14:59:38 r12a: I heard a dictionary-based implementation may be difficult. Extra fields may be better. 14:59:55 https://github.com/w3c/payment-request/pull/971 15:04:27 r12a: In WHAT WG thread people wondered what other places the same issue applies. A list of specs with the same issue would be useful. 15:04:42 addison: Yes, it would be. 15:06:54 ... We would probably need to triage them into different groups; document formats, JavaScript APIs... 15:07:06 r12a: And manifests. 15:07:35 addison: Yes, we have a Note about that. Could add stuff there. 15:08:28 ... Localization strategies for APIs, language negotiation. That's related to what the manifest note talks about. 15:09:30 r12a: The name "Localizable" for the string with metadata may confuse people. 15:09:47 addison: Maybe rather "Internationalized String" 15:10:45 ... I've been asked to review that pull request 971. 15:11:12 ... I'll try to make a list of specs with the issue. 15:11:40 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/10/07-i18n-minutes.html addison 15:13:18 r12a: JLreq group was planning version 3, but now decided to write a different document. I proposed to leave the old stuff unchanged, it is mostly about print, and make a new repo for new things. 15:13:32 addison: Focus on digital things, ebooks? 15:14:15 r12a: Yes, ebooks and more. Processing in digital, rather than printing environment. 15:15:22 ... Also, where old document wrote about things, but did not tell how to handle them, this one will describe technique. 15:16:08 atsushi: We haven't discussed the writing style yet. We can defer to other spec or copy-paste. Topics such as handling different baselines. 15:16:39 addison: My observation: Maybe consider writiing several smaller documents. 15:17:04 r12a: They are doing that. They may be sucked into the larger document eventually. 15:17:39 atsushi: We are producing topic-by-topic notes. Currently they still are all in Japanese. 15:18:42 ... Still trying define how describe @@ characters. 15:19:11 ... Differences still exist. 15:19:27 ... There are complex misunderstandings about usage. 15:21:06 Next week is Unicode conf, but we will have a call anyway. 15:22:00 Addison will be physically at the conf. r12a via Zoom only. 15:22:49 zakim, end meeting 15:22:49 As of this point the attendees have been Atsushi 15:22:50 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 15:22:50 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/10/07-i18n-minutes.html Zakim 15:22:55 I am happy to have been of service, Bert; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye 15:22:59 Zakim has left #i18n 15:24:38 s/I think the Web Payments WG didn't look at our tracker at all before requesting the transition./I suspect that the Web Payments WG didn't know to look at our tracker at all before requesting the transition. 15:24:53 s/24 items/24 hours/ 15:26:01 s/defer to other spec/refer to other spec/ 15:26:51 s/@@ characters/width of characters (Zenkaku or Okuri)/ 15:26:52 s/defiend/defined/ 15:28:28 s/but did not tell how to handle them, this one will describe technique./but sometimes left the recommendations open, this one will provide more guidance/ 15:29:13 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:29:13 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/10/07-i18n-minutes.html r12a 15:29:48 s/look at our tracker at all/look at our tracker/ 15:29:51 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:29:51 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/10/07-i18n-minutes.html r12a 16:43:28 scribeoptions: -noembed 16:43:35 RRSAgent, make minutes 16:43:35 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/10/07-i18n-minutes.html Bert 17:52:33 r12a has joined #i18n