Internationalization Working Group Teleconference

26 August 2021


Addison, Atsushi, David, Felix, fsasaki, Fuqiao
Addison Phillips

Meeting minutes

<addison> trackbot, prepare teleconference

Agenda Review

addison: seek agenda from call participants

xfq: TPAC group meeting

addison: should discuss on that also

Action Items

<addison> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open

addison: couple of issues in backlog

addison: @@@1 assigned to me

richard: will find a pointer on this and send

addison: 1048, agenda item later

<addison> action-1055?

<trackbot> action-1055: Addison Phillips to Publish localizable-manifests as fpwd with help from richard -- due 2021-08-05 -- OPEN

<addison> close action-1055

<trackbot> Closed action-1055.

addison: 1055, published

<addison> action-1060?

<trackbot> action-1060: Atsushi Shimono to Follow up on citpc/jltf request to utc about 4 characters and bring doc for review by wg when ready -- due 2021-08-26 -- OPEN

addison: 1060, for letter to unicode

richard: would try to reply to the email from Kida-san next week

addison: need to discuss as a group

richard: had a look at this, but haven't had time to reply
… will reply to Kida-san that we would like to have a chance to review, and after review we should clarify that this was developed by a W3C group
… not quite sure whether we need formal arrangements for a dual publication

addison: preference was not to do joint, and have a group as a home

richard: 1062, on going

felix: 1064, send related question to the list

addison: remember we've worked on that but forgot detail

Action: addison: follow up on previous action related to language tag registry online

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1067 - Follow up on previous action related to language tag registry online [on Addison Phillips - due 2021-09-02].

<addison> action-1065?

<trackbot> action-1065: Addison Phillips to Ping a11y to see if they intend to progress low-vision-needs -- due 2021-08-26 -- OPEN

<addison> close action-1065

<trackbot> Closed action-1065.

addison: 1065, email sent, and got responce to the list

Info Share

<r12a> https://github.com/guybedford/proposal-is-usv-string

richard: someone proposing a JavaScript method that checks for isolated surrogate characters

RADAR Review

<addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1

addison: no incoming que, one open - html snapshot
… anything new but we have outstanding issues on that

addison: in another week, will finish

<r12a> https://www.w3.org/TR/2021/WD-virtual-keyboard-20210824/

richard: I'm also looking into new FPWD document on virtual keyboard
… the only thing I'm not sure they need to say is depending on direction of text, not sure whether it is need

addison: CSS environment variables, they may calculate

richard: there may be something, not sure for sideways adjustments

addison: boxes could move whether rtl or ltr

addison: if you move onscreen keyboard, something is required
… will try to have a chance to look on this

TPAC group update/tech demo

addison: email forwared is plenary stuff, on group updates or technical demo
… few i18n demo in my pocket, but could be boring
… if we jump out that, we need to decide on i18n group call, to be listed into registration page

richard: no preference

addison: we scheduled calls separated from this slot, to welcome chunk of meetings, could follow that also this year

richard: +1

addison: can choose slots, and can send out

richard: there is two windows in TPAC, and can select one
… there is several hours slot, and can select one or two hours. if we agreed to have longer call, we can have something later

addison: pick options and send email

Action: addison: put "foot in the door" for TPAC and survey group for days/times

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1068 - Put "foot in the door" for tpac and survey group for days/times [on Addison Phillips - due 2021-09-02].

addison: for group update or videos?

xfq: not for gorup update nor video, but joint group meetings?
… for examples, miniapps WG discussed TPAC plans, one was manifest issue including i18n issues
… i18n WG may also be interested on that area

addison: we can offer joint meeting if it is desired
… did with HTML or CSS

richard: that's why we need to decide time, and WGs could pick from these slots
… hope xfq can help addison on coordination

Action: addison: ping chairs for TPAC cross meetings

addison: send an offer from me to the WG?

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1069 - Ping chairs for tpac cross meetings [on Addison Phillips - due 2021-09-02].

addison: follow up with xfq offline

webAuthn follow-up

<addison> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2021Aug/0017.html

addison: I was on WebAuthn call yesterday, creating very strange seriarization on natural string, and had discussion with them, raised PR from agreement on last one
… but got strange answer, so get into call yesterday again.
… I've brought options to them, discussed, and proposed to raise new PR before their next teleconf in two week.
… for process, moving it to REC could be difficult, with metadata
… one option is to have metadata in data fields, another is create new mysterias seriarization scheme than they currently have
… using ascii character instead of unicode language specification character
… like JSON-LD on the end of the string

richard: removing existing lines is good idea, and replacing is a good idea too
… it seems second point will take some long time

addison: for three field is already exists
… no3 could be a little faster than others
… open to push no2 - the right solution
… one option is removing bytes and introducing something codable characters, not sure will fit within existing bytes restriction

richard: some examples could be helpful?
… we are dealing with string containing data
… adding metadata could be longer
… we have fixed length string, so we can not just add metadata

addison: challange is fixed size structure for this than, and asking increasing each size
… looking BCP47, longest non-extension and tag field is 35 bytes

[discussion on how to fit in short fixed size field]

richard: the other thing, the language has this direction by default, but we need to eat more if will use different direction

addison: credentials is normally email address etc., but could contain natural language-ed text
… if that is the only string in the document, we can just use one metadata over document

addison: additional field makes total size larger, and hard for small storage authentication tag

richard: space constraints seems to be something important, all the bytes need for string as metadata need to fit within
… serialization at the end of the string could be one of consideration

richard: difference, data is the same whether including metadata - BCP r/l

addison: difference among three, another field, possible truncation

richard: another issue, where truncation is taken
… if truncated after metadata added, all gone

addison: concern is on wire or during storage
… stored values with truncation could not be recovered

addison: if we want to introduce in-string serialization, one is ascii serialization in JSON-LD, adding language and direction at the end of string, like three @-signs

richard: if there is a size limit, starting with metadata could help

<addison> https://www.w3.org/TR/json-ld/#the-i18n-namespace

addison: just replacing 4byte value to ascii, can save some

felix: json-ld seems to rely on RDF 1.1. for the definition of language tagged strings 1.1

addison: will work on proposal with deeper discussion and reasons

<fsasaki> [see this reference from the json-ld spec to https://www.w3.org/TR/rdf11-concepts/#dfn-language-tagged-string ]

richard: if you could find some examples, that's nice

addison: reminder, Peter joining calls, on string truncation


addison: can resume discussion on strings and metadata next week

Summary of action items

  1. addison: follow up on previous action related to language tag registry online
  2. addison: put "foot in the door" for TPAC and survey group for days/times
  3. addison: ping chairs for TPAC cross meetings
Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 136 (Thu May 27 13:50:24 2021 UTC).


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Succeeded: s/talked once here, and seem to say go ahead roughly/had a look at this, but haven't had time to reply

No scribenick or scribe found. Guessed: atsushi

Maybe present: richard, xfq