13:29:08 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #i18n
13:29:08 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/08/26-i18n-irc
13:29:14 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #i18n
13:29:23 <addison> trackbot, prepare teleconference
13:29:26 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:29:29 <trackbot> Meeting: Internationalization Working Group Teleconference
13:29:29 <trackbot> Date: 26 August 2021
13:29:35 <addison> regrets+ JcK
13:29:41 <addison> Chair: Addison Phillips
13:30:01 <agendabot> agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2021Aug/0011.html
13:30:01 <agendabot> clear agenda
13:30:01 <agendabot> agenda+ Agenda Review
13:30:01 <agendabot> agenda+ Action Items
13:30:03 <agendabot> agenda+ Info Share
13:30:05 <agendabot> agenda+ RADAR Review
13:30:07 <agendabot> agenda+ "Awaiting Comment Resolution" reviews
13:30:10 <agendabot> agenda+ AOB?
13:30:56 <addison> agenda+ TPAC group update/tech demo
13:31:07 <addison> agenda+ webAuthn follow-up
13:31:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/08/26-i18n-minutes.html addison
13:54:24 <xfq> xfq has joined #i18n
13:55:02 <addison> present+ Addison, Fuqiao
13:59:54 <addison> present+ Atsushi
14:00:57 <addison> present+ Felix
14:01:19 <fsasaki> fsasaki has joined #i18n
14:01:23 <fsasaki> present+
14:03:44 <addison> agenda?
14:03:51 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 1
14:03:51 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Agenda Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:04:25 <atsushi> addison: seek agenda from call participants
14:04:33 <atsushi> xfq: TPAC group meeting
14:04:44 <atsushi> addison: should discuss on that also
14:04:52 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 2
14:04:52 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Action Items -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:05:00 <addison> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open
14:05:17 <atsushi> addison: couple of issues in backlog
14:06:02 <atsushi> addison: @@@1 assigned to me
14:06:19 <atsushi> richard: will find a pointer on this and send
14:06:24 <David> David has joined #I18n
14:06:25 <atsushi> addison: 1048, agenda item later
14:06:58 <addison> action-1055?
14:06:58 <trackbot> action-1055 -- Addison Phillips to Publish localizable-manifests as fpwd with help from richard -- due 2021-08-05 -- OPEN
14:06:58 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1055
14:07:13 <addison> close action-1055
14:07:13 <trackbot> Closed action-1055.
14:07:21 <atsushi> addison: 1055, published
14:07:22 <David> present+
14:07:41 <addison> action-1060?
14:07:41 <trackbot> action-1060 -- Atsushi Shimono to Follow up on citpc/jltf request to utc about 4 characters and bring doc for review by wg when ready -- due 2021-08-26 -- OPEN
14:07:41 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1060
14:08:17 <atsushi> addison: 1060, for letter to unicode
14:08:36 <atsushi> richard: would try to reply to the email from Kida-san next week
14:08:47 <atsushi> addison: need to discuss as a group
14:09:09 <atsushi> richard: talked once here, and seem to say go ahead roughly
14:09:37 <atsushi> ... will reply to Kida-san that we would like to have a chance to review, and once get reviewed we can make it as W3C
14:09:57 <atsushi> ... not quite sure whether joint or not, like format, arrangements to Unicode
14:10:49 <atsushi> addison: preference was not to do joint, and have a group as a home
14:11:36 <atsushi> richard: 1062, on going
14:12:00 <atsushi> felix: 1064, send related question to the list
14:12:22 <atsushi> addison: remember we've worked on that but forgot detail
14:12:55 <addison> action: addison: follow up on previous action related to language tag registry online
14:12:55 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1067 - Follow up on previous action related to language tag registry online [on Addison Phillips - due 2021-09-02].
14:13:12 <addison> action-1065?
14:13:12 <trackbot> action-1065 -- Addison Phillips to Ping a11y to see if they intend to progress low-vision-needs -- due 2021-08-26 -- OPEN
14:13:12 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1065
14:13:15 <addison> close action-1065
14:13:16 <trackbot> Closed action-1065.
14:13:23 <atsushi> addison: 1065, email sent, and got responce to the list
14:14:07 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 3
14:14:07 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Info Share -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:14:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/08/26-i18n-minutes.html addison
14:14:34 <r12a> https://github.com/guybedford/proposal-is-usv-string
14:15:02 <atsushi> richard: someone proposing new type of string into JavaScript based on Unicode scaled values
14:15:31 <atsushi> s/scaled/scalar/
14:16:14 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 4
14:16:14 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- RADAR Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:16:24 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1
14:16:47 <atsushi> addison: no incoming que, one open - html snapshot
14:16:57 <atsushi> ... anything new but we have outstanding issues on that
14:18:18 <atsushi> addison: in another week, will finish
14:18:20 <r12a> https://www.w3.org/TR/2021/WD-virtual-keyboard-20210824/
14:18:38 <atsushi> richard: I'm also looking into new FPWD document on virtual keyboard
14:19:16 <atsushi> ... the only thing I'm not sure they need to say is depending on direction of text, not sure whether it is need
14:20:18 <atsushi> addison: CSS environment variables, they may calculate
14:20:37 <atsushi> richard: there may be something, not sure for sideways adjustments
14:21:02 <atsushi> addison: boxes could move whether rtl or ltr
14:21:47 <atsushi> addison: if you move onscreen keyboard, something is required
14:22:04 <atsushi> ... will try to have a chance to look on this
14:22:10 <addison> agenda?
14:22:23 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 7
14:22:23 <Zakim> agendum 7 -- TPAC group update/tech demo -- taken up [from addison]
14:22:41 <atsushi> addison: email forwared is plenary stuff, on group updates or technical demo
14:22:54 <atsushi> ... few i18n demo in my pocket, but could be boarding
14:23:08 <r12a> s/boarding/boring/
14:23:30 <atsushi> ... if we jump out that, we need to decide on i18n group call, to be listed into registration page
14:23:56 <atsushi> richard: no preference
14:24:25 <atsushi> addison: we scheduled calls separated from this slot, to welcome chunk of meetings, could follow that also this year
14:24:28 <atsushi> richard: +1
14:24:42 <atsushi> addison: can choose slots, and can send out
14:25:02 <atsushi> richard: there is two windows in TPAC, and can select one
14:25:51 <atsushi> ... there is several hours slot, and can select one or two hours. if we agreed to have longer call, we can have something later
14:26:35 <atsushi> addison: pick options and send email
14:26:38 <addison> action: addison: put "foot in the door" for TPAC and survey group for days/times
14:26:39 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1068 - Put "foot in the door" for tpac and survey group for days/times [on Addison Phillips - due 2021-09-02].
14:27:02 <atsushi> addison: for group update or videos?
14:27:07 <xfq> q+
14:27:22 <addison> ack xfq
14:27:25 <atsushi> xfq: not for gorup update nor video, but joint group meetings?
14:27:47 <atsushi> ... for examples, miniapps WG discussed TPAC plans, one was manifest issue including i18n issues
14:28:02 <atsushi> ... i18n WG may also be interested on that area
14:28:19 <atsushi> addison: we can offer joint meeting if it is desired
14:28:34 <atsushi> ... did with HTML or CSS
14:28:52 <atsushi> richard: that's why we need to decide time, and WGs could pick from these slots
14:29:15 <atsushi> ... hope xfq can help addison on coordination
14:29:31 <addison> action: addison: ping chairs for TPAC cross meetings
14:29:31 <atsushi> addison: send an offer from me to the WG?
14:29:31 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1069 - Ping chairs for tpac cross meetings [on Addison Phillips - due 2021-09-02].
14:29:58 <atsushi> ... follow up with xfq offline
14:30:15 <addison> agenda?
14:30:22 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 8
14:30:22 <Zakim> agendum 8 -- webAuthn follow-up -- taken up [from addison]
14:30:35 <addison> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2021Aug/0017.html
14:31:39 <atsushi> addison: I was on WebAuthn call yesterday, creating very strange seriarization on natural string, and had discussion with them, raised PR from agreement on last one
14:31:58 <atsushi> ... but got strange answer, so get into call yesterday again.
14:32:32 <atsushi> ... I've brought options to them, discussed, and proposed to raise new PR before their next teleconf in two week.
14:33:26 <atsushi> ... for process, moving it to REC could be difficult, with metadata
14:33:57 <atsushi> ... one option is to have metadata in data fields, another is create new mysterias seriarization scheme than they currently have
14:34:18 <atsushi> ... using ascii character instead of unicode language specification character
14:34:37 <atsushi> ... like JSON-LD on the end of the string
14:35:32 <atsushi> richard: removing existing lines is good idea, and replacing is a good idea too
14:36:01 <atsushi> ... it seems second point will take some long time
14:36:26 <atsushi> ... for three, field is already exists
14:36:40 <atsushi> s/... for three,/addison: for three/
14:36:56 <atsushi> ... no3 could be a little faster than others
14:37:29 <atsushi> ... open to push no2 - the right solution
14:38:28 <atsushi> ... one option is removing bytes and introducing something codable characters, not sure will fit within existing bytes restriction
14:38:47 <atsushi> richard: some examples could be helpful?
14:39:43 <atsushi> ... we are dealing with string containing data
14:40:19 <atsushi> ... adding metadata could be longer
14:40:46 <atsushi> ... we have fixed length string, so we can not just add metadata
14:41:32 <atsushi> addison: challange is fixed size structure for this than, and asking increasing each size
14:42:08 <atsushi> ... looking UAX #47, longest non-extension and tag field is 53bytes
14:43:07 <atsushi> [discussion on how to fit in short fixed size field]
14:44:07 <atsushi> richard: the other thing, the language has this direction by default, but we need to eat more if will use different direction
14:44:49 <atsushi> addison: credentials is normally email address etc., but could contain natural language-ed text
14:46:20 <atsushi> ... if that is the only string in the document, we can just use one metadata over document
14:47:38 <atsushi> addison: additional field makes total size larger, and hard for small storage authentication tag
14:48:44 <atsushi> richard: space constraints seems to be something important, all the bytes need for string as metadata need to fit within
14:49:04 <atsushi> ... serialization at the end of the string could be one of consideration
14:49:45 <atsushi> richard: difference, data is the same whether including metadata - BCP r/l
14:50:12 <atsushi> addison: difference among three, another field, possible truncation
14:51:49 <atsushi> richard: another issue, where truncation is taken
14:52:10 <atsushi> ... if truncated after metadata added, all gone
14:54:53 <atsushi> addison: concern is on wire or during storage
14:55:14 <atsushi> ... stored values with truncation could not be recovered
14:57:10 <atsushi> addison: if we want to introduce in-string serialization, one is ascii serialization in JSON-LD, adding language and direction at the end of string, like three @-signs
14:58:01 <atsushi> richard: if there is a size limit, starting with metadata could help
14:58:31 <addison> https://www.w3.org/TR/json-ld/#the-i18n-namespace
14:59:41 <atsushi> addison: just replacing 4byte value to ascii, can save some
15:00:38 <atsushi> felix: they chose that at 1.1
15:01:36 <atsushi> addison: will work on proposal with deeper discussion and reasons
15:01:36 <fsasaki> s/they chose that at/json-ld seems to rely on RDF 1.1. for the definition of language tagged strings
15:01:59 <fsasaki> [see this reference from the json-ld spec to https://www.w3.org/TR/rdf11-concepts/#dfn-language-tagged-string ]
15:02:16 <atsushi> richard: if you could find some examples, that's nice
15:02:46 <atsushi> addison: reminder, Peter joining calls, on string truncation
15:04:05 <addison> Topic: AOB?
15:04:54 <atsushi> addison: can resume discussion on strings and metadata next week
15:05:10 <addison> s/UAX #47/BCP47/
15:05:18 <addison> s/53bytes/35 bytes/
15:05:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/08/26-i18n-minutes.html addison
15:19:20 <r12a> s/not quite sure whether joint or not, like format, arrangements to Unicode/not quite sure whether we need formal arrangements for a dual publication/
15:20:09 <r12a> s/and once get reviewed we can make it as W3C/and after review we should clarify that this was developed by a W3C group/
15:21:16 <r12a> s/someone proposing new type of string into JavaScript based on Unicode scalar values/someone proposing a JavaScript method that checks for isolated surrogate characters/
15:22:39 <r12a> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:22:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/08/26-i18n-minutes.html r12a
15:24:19 <r12a> s/talked once here, and seem to say go ahead roughly/had a look at this, but haven't had time to reply
15:24:24 <r12a> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:24:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/08/26-i18n-minutes.html r12a
15:52:28 <addison> zakim, bye
15:52:28 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been Addison, Fuqiao, Atsushi, Felix, fsasaki, David
15:52:28 <Zakim> Zakim has left #i18n