IRC log of i18n on 2021-08-26

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:29:08 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #i18n
13:29:08 [RRSAgent]
logging to
13:29:14 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #i18n
13:29:23 [addison]
trackbot, prepare teleconference
13:29:26 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
13:29:29 [trackbot]
Meeting: Internationalization Working Group Teleconference
13:29:29 [trackbot]
Date: 26 August 2021
13:29:35 [addison]
regrets+ JcK
13:29:41 [addison]
Chair: Addison Phillips
13:30:01 [agendabot]
13:30:01 [agendabot]
clear agenda
13:30:01 [agendabot]
agenda+ Agenda Review
13:30:01 [agendabot]
agenda+ Action Items
13:30:03 [agendabot]
agenda+ Info Share
13:30:05 [agendabot]
agenda+ RADAR Review
13:30:07 [agendabot]
agenda+ "Awaiting Comment Resolution" reviews
13:30:10 [agendabot]
agenda+ AOB?
13:30:56 [addison]
agenda+ TPAC group update/tech demo
13:31:07 [addison]
agenda+ webAuthn follow-up
13:31:31 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate addison
13:54:24 [xfq]
xfq has joined #i18n
13:55:02 [addison]
present+ Addison, Fuqiao
13:59:54 [addison]
present+ Atsushi
14:00:57 [addison]
present+ Felix
14:01:19 [fsasaki]
fsasaki has joined #i18n
14:01:23 [fsasaki]
14:03:44 [addison]
14:03:51 [addison]
zakim, take up agendum 1
14:03:51 [Zakim]
agendum 1 -- Agenda Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:04:25 [atsushi]
addison: seek agenda from call participants
14:04:33 [atsushi]
xfq: TPAC group meeting
14:04:44 [atsushi]
addison: should discuss on that also
14:04:52 [addison]
zakim, take up agendum 2
14:04:52 [Zakim]
agendum 2 -- Action Items -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:05:00 [addison]
14:05:17 [atsushi]
addison: couple of issues in backlog
14:06:02 [atsushi]
addison: @@@1 assigned to me
14:06:19 [atsushi]
richard: will find a pointer on this and send
14:06:24 [David]
David has joined #I18n
14:06:25 [atsushi]
addison: 1048, agenda item later
14:06:58 [addison]
14:06:58 [trackbot]
action-1055 -- Addison Phillips to Publish localizable-manifests as fpwd with help from richard -- due 2021-08-05 -- OPEN
14:06:58 [trackbot]
14:07:13 [addison]
close action-1055
14:07:13 [trackbot]
Closed action-1055.
14:07:21 [atsushi]
addison: 1055, published
14:07:22 [David]
14:07:41 [addison]
14:07:41 [trackbot]
action-1060 -- Atsushi Shimono to Follow up on citpc/jltf request to utc about 4 characters and bring doc for review by wg when ready -- due 2021-08-26 -- OPEN
14:07:41 [trackbot]
14:08:17 [atsushi]
addison: 1060, for letter to unicode
14:08:36 [atsushi]
richard: would try to reply to the email from Kida-san next week
14:08:47 [atsushi]
addison: need to discuss as a group
14:09:09 [atsushi]
richard: talked once here, and seem to say go ahead roughly
14:09:37 [atsushi]
... will reply to Kida-san that we would like to have a chance to review, and once get reviewed we can make it as W3C
14:09:57 [atsushi]
... not quite sure whether joint or not, like format, arrangements to Unicode
14:10:49 [atsushi]
addison: preference was not to do joint, and have a group as a home
14:11:36 [atsushi]
richard: 1062, on going
14:12:00 [atsushi]
felix: 1064, send related question to the list
14:12:22 [atsushi]
addison: remember we've worked on that but forgot detail
14:12:55 [addison]
action: addison: follow up on previous action related to language tag registry online
14:12:55 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-1067 - Follow up on previous action related to language tag registry online [on Addison Phillips - due 2021-09-02].
14:13:12 [addison]
14:13:12 [trackbot]
action-1065 -- Addison Phillips to Ping a11y to see if they intend to progress low-vision-needs -- due 2021-08-26 -- OPEN
14:13:12 [trackbot]
14:13:15 [addison]
close action-1065
14:13:16 [trackbot]
Closed action-1065.
14:13:23 [atsushi]
addison: 1065, email sent, and got responce to the list
14:14:07 [addison]
zakim, take up agendum 3
14:14:07 [Zakim]
agendum 3 -- Info Share -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:14:21 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate addison
14:14:34 [r12a]
14:15:02 [atsushi]
richard: someone proposing new type of string into JavaScript based on Unicode scaled values
14:15:31 [atsushi]
14:16:14 [addison]
zakim, take up agendum 4
14:16:14 [Zakim]
agendum 4 -- RADAR Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:16:24 [addison]
14:16:47 [atsushi]
addison: no incoming que, one open - html snapshot
14:16:57 [atsushi]
... anything new but we have outstanding issues on that
14:18:18 [atsushi]
addison: in another week, will finish
14:18:20 [r12a]
14:18:38 [atsushi]
richard: I'm also looking into new FPWD document on virtual keyboard
14:19:16 [atsushi]
... the only thing I'm not sure they need to say is depending on direction of text, not sure whether it is need
14:20:18 [atsushi]
addison: CSS environment variables, they may calculate
14:20:37 [atsushi]
richard: there may be something, not sure for sideways adjustments
14:21:02 [atsushi]
addison: boxes could move whether rtl or ltr
14:21:47 [atsushi]
addison: if you move onscreen keyboard, something is required
14:22:04 [atsushi]
... will try to have a chance to look on this
14:22:10 [addison]
14:22:23 [addison]
zakim, take up agendum 7
14:22:23 [Zakim]
agendum 7 -- TPAC group update/tech demo -- taken up [from addison]
14:22:41 [atsushi]
addison: email forwared is plenary stuff, on group updates or technical demo
14:22:54 [atsushi]
... few i18n demo in my pocket, but could be boarding
14:23:08 [r12a]
14:23:30 [atsushi]
... if we jump out that, we need to decide on i18n group call, to be listed into registration page
14:23:56 [atsushi]
richard: no preference
14:24:25 [atsushi]
addison: we scheduled calls separated from this slot, to welcome chunk of meetings, could follow that also this year
14:24:28 [atsushi]
richard: +1
14:24:42 [atsushi]
addison: can choose slots, and can send out
14:25:02 [atsushi]
richard: there is two windows in TPAC, and can select one
14:25:51 [atsushi]
... there is several hours slot, and can select one or two hours. if we agreed to have longer call, we can have something later
14:26:35 [atsushi]
addison: pick options and send email
14:26:38 [addison]
action: addison: put "foot in the door" for TPAC and survey group for days/times
14:26:39 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-1068 - Put "foot in the door" for tpac and survey group for days/times [on Addison Phillips - due 2021-09-02].
14:27:02 [atsushi]
addison: for group update or videos?
14:27:07 [xfq]
14:27:22 [addison]
ack xfq
14:27:25 [atsushi]
xfq: not for gorup update nor video, but joint group meetings?
14:27:47 [atsushi]
... for examples, miniapps WG discussed TPAC plans, one was manifest issue including i18n issues
14:28:02 [atsushi]
... i18n WG may also be interested on that area
14:28:19 [atsushi]
addison: we can offer joint meeting if it is desired
14:28:34 [atsushi]
... did with HTML or CSS
14:28:52 [atsushi]
richard: that's why we need to decide time, and WGs could pick from these slots
14:29:15 [atsushi]
... hope xfq can help addison on coordination
14:29:31 [addison]
action: addison: ping chairs for TPAC cross meetings
14:29:31 [atsushi]
addison: send an offer from me to the WG?
14:29:31 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-1069 - Ping chairs for tpac cross meetings [on Addison Phillips - due 2021-09-02].
14:29:58 [atsushi]
... follow up with xfq offline
14:30:15 [addison]
14:30:22 [addison]
zakim, take up agendum 8
14:30:22 [Zakim]
agendum 8 -- webAuthn follow-up -- taken up [from addison]
14:30:35 [addison]
14:31:39 [atsushi]
addison: I was on WebAuthn call yesterday, creating very strange seriarization on natural string, and had discussion with them, raised PR from agreement on last one
14:31:58 [atsushi]
... but got strange answer, so get into call yesterday again.
14:32:32 [atsushi]
... I've brought options to them, discussed, and proposed to raise new PR before their next teleconf in two week.
14:33:26 [atsushi]
... for process, moving it to REC could be difficult, with metadata
14:33:57 [atsushi]
... one option is to have metadata in data fields, another is create new mysterias seriarization scheme than they currently have
14:34:18 [atsushi]
... using ascii character instead of unicode language specification character
14:34:37 [atsushi]
... like JSON-LD on the end of the string
14:35:32 [atsushi]
richard: removing existing lines is good idea, and replacing is a good idea too
14:36:01 [atsushi]
... it seems second point will take some long time
14:36:26 [atsushi]
... for three, field is already exists
14:36:40 [atsushi]
s/... for three,/addison: for three/
14:36:56 [atsushi]
... no3 could be a little faster than others
14:37:29 [atsushi]
... open to push no2 - the right solution
14:38:28 [atsushi]
... one option is removing bytes and introducing something codable characters, not sure will fit within existing bytes restriction
14:38:47 [atsushi]
richard: some examples could be helpful?
14:39:43 [atsushi]
... we are dealing with string containing data
14:40:19 [atsushi]
... adding metadata could be longer
14:40:46 [atsushi]
... we have fixed length string, so we can not just add metadata
14:41:32 [atsushi]
addison: challange is fixed size structure for this than, and asking increasing each size
14:42:08 [atsushi]
... looking UAX #47, longest non-extension and tag field is 53bytes
14:43:07 [atsushi]
[discussion on how to fit in short fixed size field]
14:44:07 [atsushi]
richard: the other thing, the language has this direction by default, but we need to eat more if will use different direction
14:44:49 [atsushi]
addison: credentials is normally email address etc., but could contain natural language-ed text
14:46:20 [atsushi]
... if that is the only string in the document, we can just use one metadata over document
14:47:38 [atsushi]
addison: additional field makes total size larger, and hard for small storage authentication tag
14:48:44 [atsushi]
richard: space constraints seems to be something important, all the bytes need for string as metadata need to fit within
14:49:04 [atsushi]
... serialization at the end of the string could be one of consideration
14:49:45 [atsushi]
richard: difference, data is the same whether including metadata - BCP r/l
14:50:12 [atsushi]
addison: difference among three, another field, possible truncation
14:51:49 [atsushi]
richard: another issue, where truncation is taken
14:52:10 [atsushi]
... if truncated after metadata added, all gone
14:54:53 [atsushi]
addison: concern is on wire or during storage
14:55:14 [atsushi]
... stored values with truncation could not be recovered
14:57:10 [atsushi]
addison: if we want to introduce in-string serialization, one is ascii serialization in JSON-LD, adding language and direction at the end of string, like three @-signs
14:58:01 [atsushi]
richard: if there is a size limit, starting with metadata could help
14:58:31 [addison]
14:59:41 [atsushi]
addison: just replacing 4byte value to ascii, can save some
15:00:38 [atsushi]
felix: they chose that at 1.1
15:01:36 [atsushi]
addison: will work on proposal with deeper discussion and reasons
15:01:36 [fsasaki]
s/they chose that at/json-ld seems to rely on RDF 1.1. for the definition of language tagged strings
15:01:59 [fsasaki]
[see this reference from the json-ld spec to ]
15:02:16 [atsushi]
richard: if you could find some examples, that's nice
15:02:46 [atsushi]
addison: reminder, Peter joining calls, on string truncation
15:04:05 [addison]
Topic: AOB?
15:04:54 [atsushi]
addison: can resume discussion on strings and metadata next week
15:05:10 [addison]
s/UAX #47/BCP47/
15:05:18 [addison]
s/53bytes/35 bytes/
15:05:30 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate addison
15:19:20 [r12a]
s/not quite sure whether joint or not, like format, arrangements to Unicode/not quite sure whether we need formal arrangements for a dual publication/
15:20:09 [r12a]
s/and once get reviewed we can make it as W3C/and after review we should clarify that this was developed by a W3C group/
15:21:16 [r12a]
s/someone proposing new type of string into JavaScript based on Unicode scalar values/someone proposing a JavaScript method that checks for isolated surrogate characters/
15:22:39 [r12a]
rrsagent, draft minutes
15:22:39 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate r12a
15:24:19 [r12a]
s/talked once here, and seem to say go ahead roughly/had a look at this, but haven't had time to reply
15:24:24 [r12a]
rrsagent, draft minutes
15:24:24 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate r12a
15:52:28 [addison]
zakim, bye
15:52:28 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees have been Addison, Fuqiao, Atsushi, Felix, fsasaki, David
15:52:28 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #i18n