IRC log of i18n on 2021-08-26
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 13:29:08 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #i18n
- 13:29:08 [RRSAgent]
- logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/08/26-i18n-irc
- 13:29:14 [Zakim]
- Zakim has joined #i18n
- 13:29:23 [addison]
- trackbot, prepare teleconference
- 13:29:26 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 13:29:29 [trackbot]
- Meeting: Internationalization Working Group Teleconference
- 13:29:29 [trackbot]
- Date: 26 August 2021
- 13:29:35 [addison]
- regrets+ JcK
- 13:29:41 [addison]
- Chair: Addison Phillips
- 13:30:01 [agendabot]
- agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2021Aug/0011.html
- 13:30:01 [agendabot]
- clear agenda
- 13:30:01 [agendabot]
- agenda+ Agenda Review
- 13:30:01 [agendabot]
- agenda+ Action Items
- 13:30:03 [agendabot]
- agenda+ Info Share
- 13:30:05 [agendabot]
- agenda+ RADAR Review
- 13:30:07 [agendabot]
- agenda+ "Awaiting Comment Resolution" reviews
- 13:30:10 [agendabot]
- agenda+ AOB?
- 13:30:56 [addison]
- agenda+ TPAC group update/tech demo
- 13:31:07 [addison]
- agenda+ webAuthn follow-up
- 13:31:31 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/08/26-i18n-minutes.html addison
- 13:54:24 [xfq]
- xfq has joined #i18n
- 13:55:02 [addison]
- present+ Addison, Fuqiao
- 13:59:54 [addison]
- present+ Atsushi
- 14:00:57 [addison]
- present+ Felix
- 14:01:19 [fsasaki]
- fsasaki has joined #i18n
- 14:01:23 [fsasaki]
- present+
- 14:03:44 [addison]
- agenda?
- 14:03:51 [addison]
- zakim, take up agendum 1
- 14:03:51 [Zakim]
- agendum 1 -- Agenda Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
- 14:04:25 [atsushi]
- addison: seek agenda from call participants
- 14:04:33 [atsushi]
- xfq: TPAC group meeting
- 14:04:44 [atsushi]
- addison: should discuss on that also
- 14:04:52 [addison]
- zakim, take up agendum 2
- 14:04:52 [Zakim]
- agendum 2 -- Action Items -- taken up [from agendabot]
- 14:05:00 [addison]
- https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open
- 14:05:17 [atsushi]
- addison: couple of issues in backlog
- 14:06:02 [atsushi]
- addison: @@@1 assigned to me
- 14:06:19 [atsushi]
- richard: will find a pointer on this and send
- 14:06:24 [David]
- David has joined #I18n
- 14:06:25 [atsushi]
- addison: 1048, agenda item later
- 14:06:58 [addison]
- action-1055?
- 14:06:58 [trackbot]
- action-1055 -- Addison Phillips to Publish localizable-manifests as fpwd with help from richard -- due 2021-08-05 -- OPEN
- 14:06:58 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1055
- 14:07:13 [addison]
- close action-1055
- 14:07:13 [trackbot]
- Closed action-1055.
- 14:07:21 [atsushi]
- addison: 1055, published
- 14:07:22 [David]
- present+
- 14:07:41 [addison]
- action-1060?
- 14:07:41 [trackbot]
- action-1060 -- Atsushi Shimono to Follow up on citpc/jltf request to utc about 4 characters and bring doc for review by wg when ready -- due 2021-08-26 -- OPEN
- 14:07:41 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1060
- 14:08:17 [atsushi]
- addison: 1060, for letter to unicode
- 14:08:36 [atsushi]
- richard: would try to reply to the email from Kida-san next week
- 14:08:47 [atsushi]
- addison: need to discuss as a group
- 14:09:09 [atsushi]
- richard: talked once here, and seem to say go ahead roughly
- 14:09:37 [atsushi]
- ... will reply to Kida-san that we would like to have a chance to review, and once get reviewed we can make it as W3C
- 14:09:57 [atsushi]
- ... not quite sure whether joint or not, like format, arrangements to Unicode
- 14:10:49 [atsushi]
- addison: preference was not to do joint, and have a group as a home
- 14:11:36 [atsushi]
- richard: 1062, on going
- 14:12:00 [atsushi]
- felix: 1064, send related question to the list
- 14:12:22 [atsushi]
- addison: remember we've worked on that but forgot detail
- 14:12:55 [addison]
- action: addison: follow up on previous action related to language tag registry online
- 14:12:55 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-1067 - Follow up on previous action related to language tag registry online [on Addison Phillips - due 2021-09-02].
- 14:13:12 [addison]
- action-1065?
- 14:13:12 [trackbot]
- action-1065 -- Addison Phillips to Ping a11y to see if they intend to progress low-vision-needs -- due 2021-08-26 -- OPEN
- 14:13:12 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1065
- 14:13:15 [addison]
- close action-1065
- 14:13:16 [trackbot]
- Closed action-1065.
- 14:13:23 [atsushi]
- addison: 1065, email sent, and got responce to the list
- 14:14:07 [addison]
- zakim, take up agendum 3
- 14:14:07 [Zakim]
- agendum 3 -- Info Share -- taken up [from agendabot]
- 14:14:21 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/08/26-i18n-minutes.html addison
- 14:14:34 [r12a]
- https://github.com/guybedford/proposal-is-usv-string
- 14:15:02 [atsushi]
- richard: someone proposing new type of string into JavaScript based on Unicode scaled values
- 14:15:31 [atsushi]
- s/scaled/scalar/
- 14:16:14 [addison]
- zakim, take up agendum 4
- 14:16:14 [Zakim]
- agendum 4 -- RADAR Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
- 14:16:24 [addison]
- https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1
- 14:16:47 [atsushi]
- addison: no incoming que, one open - html snapshot
- 14:16:57 [atsushi]
- ... anything new but we have outstanding issues on that
- 14:18:18 [atsushi]
- addison: in another week, will finish
- 14:18:20 [r12a]
- https://www.w3.org/TR/2021/WD-virtual-keyboard-20210824/
- 14:18:38 [atsushi]
- richard: I'm also looking into new FPWD document on virtual keyboard
- 14:19:16 [atsushi]
- ... the only thing I'm not sure they need to say is depending on direction of text, not sure whether it is need
- 14:20:18 [atsushi]
- addison: CSS environment variables, they may calculate
- 14:20:37 [atsushi]
- richard: there may be something, not sure for sideways adjustments
- 14:21:02 [atsushi]
- addison: boxes could move whether rtl or ltr
- 14:21:47 [atsushi]
- addison: if you move onscreen keyboard, something is required
- 14:22:04 [atsushi]
- ... will try to have a chance to look on this
- 14:22:10 [addison]
- agenda?
- 14:22:23 [addison]
- zakim, take up agendum 7
- 14:22:23 [Zakim]
- agendum 7 -- TPAC group update/tech demo -- taken up [from addison]
- 14:22:41 [atsushi]
- addison: email forwared is plenary stuff, on group updates or technical demo
- 14:22:54 [atsushi]
- ... few i18n demo in my pocket, but could be boarding
- 14:23:08 [r12a]
- s/boarding/boring/
- 14:23:30 [atsushi]
- ... if we jump out that, we need to decide on i18n group call, to be listed into registration page
- 14:23:56 [atsushi]
- richard: no preference
- 14:24:25 [atsushi]
- addison: we scheduled calls separated from this slot, to welcome chunk of meetings, could follow that also this year
- 14:24:28 [atsushi]
- richard: +1
- 14:24:42 [atsushi]
- addison: can choose slots, and can send out
- 14:25:02 [atsushi]
- richard: there is two windows in TPAC, and can select one
- 14:25:51 [atsushi]
- ... there is several hours slot, and can select one or two hours. if we agreed to have longer call, we can have something later
- 14:26:35 [atsushi]
- addison: pick options and send email
- 14:26:38 [addison]
- action: addison: put "foot in the door" for TPAC and survey group for days/times
- 14:26:39 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-1068 - Put "foot in the door" for tpac and survey group for days/times [on Addison Phillips - due 2021-09-02].
- 14:27:02 [atsushi]
- addison: for group update or videos?
- 14:27:07 [xfq]
- q+
- 14:27:22 [addison]
- ack xfq
- 14:27:25 [atsushi]
- xfq: not for gorup update nor video, but joint group meetings?
- 14:27:47 [atsushi]
- ... for examples, miniapps WG discussed TPAC plans, one was manifest issue including i18n issues
- 14:28:02 [atsushi]
- ... i18n WG may also be interested on that area
- 14:28:19 [atsushi]
- addison: we can offer joint meeting if it is desired
- 14:28:34 [atsushi]
- ... did with HTML or CSS
- 14:28:52 [atsushi]
- richard: that's why we need to decide time, and WGs could pick from these slots
- 14:29:15 [atsushi]
- ... hope xfq can help addison on coordination
- 14:29:31 [addison]
- action: addison: ping chairs for TPAC cross meetings
- 14:29:31 [atsushi]
- addison: send an offer from me to the WG?
- 14:29:31 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-1069 - Ping chairs for tpac cross meetings [on Addison Phillips - due 2021-09-02].
- 14:29:58 [atsushi]
- ... follow up with xfq offline
- 14:30:15 [addison]
- agenda?
- 14:30:22 [addison]
- zakim, take up agendum 8
- 14:30:22 [Zakim]
- agendum 8 -- webAuthn follow-up -- taken up [from addison]
- 14:30:35 [addison]
- https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2021Aug/0017.html
- 14:31:39 [atsushi]
- addison: I was on WebAuthn call yesterday, creating very strange seriarization on natural string, and had discussion with them, raised PR from agreement on last one
- 14:31:58 [atsushi]
- ... but got strange answer, so get into call yesterday again.
- 14:32:32 [atsushi]
- ... I've brought options to them, discussed, and proposed to raise new PR before their next teleconf in two week.
- 14:33:26 [atsushi]
- ... for process, moving it to REC could be difficult, with metadata
- 14:33:57 [atsushi]
- ... one option is to have metadata in data fields, another is create new mysterias seriarization scheme than they currently have
- 14:34:18 [atsushi]
- ... using ascii character instead of unicode language specification character
- 14:34:37 [atsushi]
- ... like JSON-LD on the end of the string
- 14:35:32 [atsushi]
- richard: removing existing lines is good idea, and replacing is a good idea too
- 14:36:01 [atsushi]
- ... it seems second point will take some long time
- 14:36:26 [atsushi]
- ... for three, field is already exists
- 14:36:40 [atsushi]
- s/... for three,/addison: for three/
- 14:36:56 [atsushi]
- ... no3 could be a little faster than others
- 14:37:29 [atsushi]
- ... open to push no2 - the right solution
- 14:38:28 [atsushi]
- ... one option is removing bytes and introducing something codable characters, not sure will fit within existing bytes restriction
- 14:38:47 [atsushi]
- richard: some examples could be helpful?
- 14:39:43 [atsushi]
- ... we are dealing with string containing data
- 14:40:19 [atsushi]
- ... adding metadata could be longer
- 14:40:46 [atsushi]
- ... we have fixed length string, so we can not just add metadata
- 14:41:32 [atsushi]
- addison: challange is fixed size structure for this than, and asking increasing each size
- 14:42:08 [atsushi]
- ... looking UAX #47, longest non-extension and tag field is 53bytes
- 14:43:07 [atsushi]
- [discussion on how to fit in short fixed size field]
- 14:44:07 [atsushi]
- richard: the other thing, the language has this direction by default, but we need to eat more if will use different direction
- 14:44:49 [atsushi]
- addison: credentials is normally email address etc., but could contain natural language-ed text
- 14:46:20 [atsushi]
- ... if that is the only string in the document, we can just use one metadata over document
- 14:47:38 [atsushi]
- addison: additional field makes total size larger, and hard for small storage authentication tag
- 14:48:44 [atsushi]
- richard: space constraints seems to be something important, all the bytes need for string as metadata need to fit within
- 14:49:04 [atsushi]
- ... serialization at the end of the string could be one of consideration
- 14:49:45 [atsushi]
- richard: difference, data is the same whether including metadata - BCP r/l
- 14:50:12 [atsushi]
- addison: difference among three, another field, possible truncation
- 14:51:49 [atsushi]
- richard: another issue, where truncation is taken
- 14:52:10 [atsushi]
- ... if truncated after metadata added, all gone
- 14:54:53 [atsushi]
- addison: concern is on wire or during storage
- 14:55:14 [atsushi]
- ... stored values with truncation could not be recovered
- 14:57:10 [atsushi]
- addison: if we want to introduce in-string serialization, one is ascii serialization in JSON-LD, adding language and direction at the end of string, like three @-signs
- 14:58:01 [atsushi]
- richard: if there is a size limit, starting with metadata could help
- 14:58:31 [addison]
- https://www.w3.org/TR/json-ld/#the-i18n-namespace
- 14:59:41 [atsushi]
- addison: just replacing 4byte value to ascii, can save some
- 15:00:38 [atsushi]
- felix: they chose that at 1.1
- 15:01:36 [atsushi]
- addison: will work on proposal with deeper discussion and reasons
- 15:01:36 [fsasaki]
- s/they chose that at/json-ld seems to rely on RDF 1.1. for the definition of language tagged strings
- 15:01:59 [fsasaki]
- [see this reference from the json-ld spec to https://www.w3.org/TR/rdf11-concepts/#dfn-language-tagged-string ]
- 15:02:16 [atsushi]
- richard: if you could find some examples, that's nice
- 15:02:46 [atsushi]
- addison: reminder, Peter joining calls, on string truncation
- 15:04:05 [addison]
- Topic: AOB?
- 15:04:54 [atsushi]
- addison: can resume discussion on strings and metadata next week
- 15:05:10 [addison]
- s/UAX #47/BCP47/
- 15:05:18 [addison]
- s/53bytes/35 bytes/
- 15:05:30 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/08/26-i18n-minutes.html addison
- 15:19:20 [r12a]
- s/not quite sure whether joint or not, like format, arrangements to Unicode/not quite sure whether we need formal arrangements for a dual publication/
- 15:20:09 [r12a]
- s/and once get reviewed we can make it as W3C/and after review we should clarify that this was developed by a W3C group/
- 15:21:16 [r12a]
- s/someone proposing new type of string into JavaScript based on Unicode scalar values/someone proposing a JavaScript method that checks for isolated surrogate characters/
- 15:22:39 [r12a]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 15:22:39 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/08/26-i18n-minutes.html r12a
- 15:24:19 [r12a]
- s/talked once here, and seem to say go ahead roughly/had a look at this, but haven't had time to reply
- 15:24:24 [r12a]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 15:24:24 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/08/26-i18n-minutes.html r12a
- 15:52:28 [addison]
- zakim, bye
- 15:52:28 [Zakim]
- leaving. As of this point the attendees have been Addison, Fuqiao, Atsushi, Felix, fsasaki, David
- 15:52:28 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #i18n