Silver Task Force & Community Group

23 July 2021


bruce_bailey, ChrisLoiselle, Francis_Storr, jeanne, Jemma, JF, Lauriat, Makoto, PeterKorn, Rachael, sajkaj, SuzanneTaylor, ToddLibby
Azlan, Wilco
jeanne, Shawn
Suzanne_Taylor, SuzanneTaylor

Meeting minutes

EO WG Survey

<jeanne> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-silver/2021Jul/0047.html

Shawn: Is there more context for this one?

Jeanne: EO has an ongoing project to build new resources including videos that they want to make sure are accurate and applicable to both WCAG 2 and 3

Jeanne: So they are grateful for contributions from this group

Janina: I wanted to suggest that we consider how these will work with our understanding documents while reviewing

Janina: it does not need to be just text

Jeanne: Yes, we plan to fully integrate EO

Shawn: plus one to that

TPAC APA Joint Meetings

<sajkaj> https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Meetings/TPAC_2021


Janina: We are still organizing this page, but I will run through the list of the meeting we currently plan to have

Janina: APA has 4 taskforces (with varying activity level for TPAC)

Janina: TPAC is fully virtual and will run for 3 weeks

Janina: the first week various groups gather, the second week has more intensive working sessions,

Janina: on the Wednesday of the second week, we have a general plenary for everybody, and mostly through the day you can drop into breakout sessions, so we may want to plan some of the presentations

<sajkaj> https://www.w3.org/Consortium/Process/Drafts/#registries

Janina: APA meet with ePub about registries

Janina: Michael, do you know the status on this?

Michael: they likely processing comments now, but I would be surprised if it does not go in, we can begin with drafts

Janina: the idea is to promote unity across specifications for definitions, terminology and values

Janina: we might want to use registries to make facts about accessibility discoverable, such as filtering on only media with a11y features

<JF> just to note that our specs (Recommendations) already routinely reference other documents. https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/#references

Janina: There will also be a proposed TPAC breakout session on creating a central glossary for WAI or W3C

Janina: There may also be a meeting on whether or not current APIs are adequate for current and future a11y needs. For example, without registries, pronunciation may not be implemented.

Janina: Also 2 intro meetings

Janina: there are a variety of recommendation track specifications to cover in these meetings

Janina: in additional COGA and Personalization will meet

Janina: to be more aware of eachothers work, this will be open to anyone interested

Janina: The Research Questions Taskforce has a number of user requirements documents to be discussed: Real Time Communications, XR, and FPWD Synchonization

Janina: There is a standing agreement with CSS to meet every year

<sajkaj> https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/video-examples

Janina: this year, we'll dicuss media queries

Janina: at the URL can see what is currently addressed by media queries and additional potential

Janina: this is an open meeting. Let me know if you have further topics to discuss with CSS

Janina: I'm also proposing we might wish to meet with HTML-developing groups to try to get the browser technology to address some of the guidelines like flashing and auto-play audio

Janina: We also need to chat with Internationalization, to resolve an open issue on Personalization

Jeanne: I'm setting up a wiki page for Silver to list meetings we'd like to have

Janina: Silver topics: Third party conversation, AGWG charter (expires *next* TPAC)

<Zakim> jeanne, you wanted to ask for ideas of the groups Silver wants to meet with

Jeanne: Any ideas from Janina's list, your own subgroups, etc?

Jeanne: definitely we should meet with EO for help on writing the How-tos

Jeanne: Should we meet with COGA?

Janina: perhaps the meeting with COGA and Personalization will be enough?

Jeanne: Yes, it would be great for Silver folks to attend, but we might want our own to get COGA's help on writing new guidelines

<PeterKorn> +1 to ePub mtg.

Jeanne: Should we meet with EPUB? We do want to start including EPUB related guidelines

<JF> Epub have their own "accessibility" sub-group (Avneesh from Daisy is the chair AFAIK)

Shawn: We should meet with groups who may help with writing methods. We won't be able to write it all ourselves.

<Zakim> Lauriat, you wanted to suggest groups we'd want to have writing methods

Rachael: Perhaps we should have a session introducing the method template for all of the groups that might help

<Lauriat> +1 to Rachael

<Chuck> suzanne: We should talk about that one, but also Children's Accessibility Community Group. We haven't had our first meeting yet. Just email discussions.

<Chuck> suzanne: We'll want people from that group stop in or come into the overview meetings. To let them know about the topics and discussions.

<jeanne> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/silver/wiki/TPAC_2021_Meeting_Overview

Jeanne: for those who are interested, here is what I have so far ^

Jeanne: thank you for all of this info Janina

Getting a group together to help work on counting aspect

<PeterKorn> What do you mean by

Shawn: There have been many discussions on counting (test results and scoring) and it seems it needs dedicated attention

<PeterKorn> Got it

<JF> counting can also be gamed easily

Jeanne: Tester feedback is that the counting to reach a score will be time consuming

Jeanne: So please email Jeanne if you are interested in joining this new subgroup

Janina: Can bring in AGWG

User-generated content review

<JF> what about "just don't count"?

Jeanne: But would prefer to develop this in Silver first

<sajkaj> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/silver/wiki/User_Generated_Content

<jeanne> JF, that is certainly a possible recommendation

<Lauriat> +1, good to include in the exploration!

Janina: In the Conformance Options Subgroup, we have been working on User Generated Content, there is one wiki page

Janina: but that page holds text designed to be placed in numerous locations

Janina: Some professionals write poor alt text, so perhaps the average user will not be able to write good alt text

<JF> +1 to Janina: there is "mechanisms" and there is "editorial"

Janina: perhaps AI should try to help with this

<Chuck> I will scribe for Suzanne

<Chuck> while she is in conversation

<Chuck> suzanne: It's true that... we see bad alt text written when people try to get lowest price for legacy alt text. Often because that alt text has context.

<Chuck> suzanne: Usually context will be provided, but there's a lot that has to be gone through, lots of perspectives in mind, etc.

<Chuck> suzanne: Often it becomes too long or the image is an example and they will describe concept and not example. However...

<Chuck> suzanne: average person online for social media.... I suggest rather than one use case have a specific social media use case. A person can write good alt text if they are given time.

<Chuck> suzanne: If you take a look at social media (which has largest alt text issues), most of that is very informal. Not appropriate for large department to change that text.

<Chuck> suzanne: It MAY not be appropriate. Let's say you have an impolite person talking with an impolite person, that alt text could be obnoxious. I don't know we should take any....

<JF> +1 to any attempt to evaluate "quality"

<Chuck> suzanne: dangerous to get into a place where we are looking at content. May not be good idea. Another issue is that you can ask questions.

<Chuck> suzanne: Asking questions, generating more posts is a plus.

<Chuck> suzanne: There's very different contexts. Pulling out user generated contexts is fantastic. We can look at where it's different.

<Chuck> suzanne: Even a checklist for quality alt text should be different. A 5th grader could provide less quality alt text than a professional, but may be appropriate for that group.

Janina: I think in the main we are very much in agreement

<Jemma> isn't it typo in "is taking advantage of the latest in computer vision" like vision to version?

<Chuck> suzanne: Helpful to have it?

<Chuck> Janina: Where? Which document?

<Chuck> Janina: There's many different docs and parts of doc. Where should we put the use cases?

<PeterKorn> Examples could go into the "Examples" tab of various guidelines.

<PeterKorn> Sorry, of various methods.

<Chuck> suzanne: Should be considered. Right now proposal points to old guidance and checklist. I think what makes good alt text on social media is different than other use cases.

<Chuck> Janina: That section is not ready to be advanced, it's being rewritten. Will all be replaced?

<Chuck> suzanne: The proposal doesn't suggest that alt text for social media might have a different set of standards.

<Chuck> Janina: That's exactly where we are going.

JF: Personally I have a real concern about "social media" we don't even have a definition for that

<Jemma> +1 jf

<Zakim> PeterKorn, you wanted to speak to this

JF: we have to be really really careful that we are not chiseling this down too small; thinking about social media may not be right way to have the conversation

<Jemma> s/+1 jf in expanding the scope of target with user generated content

PeterKorn: The granular details about how to judge and score will go in the methods; there is a tab for examples, which could have this type of information

<Jemma> I love this user generated content!

<Jemma> it includes helps/assistance aspect of accessibility

<PeterKorn> Thank you Jemma!

PeterKorn: We will be further polishing and bringing this back to AGWG

Janina: We might be back here next Friday with a little more polished document

<PeterKorn> Joys of using speech recognition...

<bruce_bailey> maybe add hyphen ?

<Jemma> "taking advantage of the latest in computer vision and machine learning tools "

<bruce_bailey> computer vision -> computer-vision

<bruce_bailey> just hyphens to help parse

Shawn: Other questions or comments?

<Jemma> computer vision appoach?

<Jemma> or machine vision and machine learning

<Jemma> https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=vision+and+machine+learning+tool&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart

<Makoto> sayonara!

<jeanne> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/error-prevention-July-21/ <- Error Prevention

Jeanne: Please complete these 2 surveys

<jeanne> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/ACT-method-proposal/ <- ACT proposal for new Method structure

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 136 (Thu May 27 13:50:24 2021 UTC).


Succeeded: s/Jenanne/Jeanne

Succeeded: s/AWGW/AGWG

Maybe present: Janina, Michael, Shawn