Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference

17 June 2021


cweidner, Fazio, Jennie, Joshue108, JustineP
alberts, John k, John r, kriss anne, roy
Jennie, justine, justinep

Meeting minutes

<LisaSeemanKest_> agenda

<Fazio> FYI, I reached out to mt University of California contacts at the MIND Institute and at the Tarjan Center. Theyre circulating our request for mental health professionals and research

actions https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/PlanningPage#Actions

Lisa: Mental health subgroup, assign one paper per person to be completed approximately end of July
… Inclusive working group - consensus seems to be achieved. Will discuss today if possible.

EA: Silver/clear words meeting has not been arranged yet.

Lisa: Will assign Rain an action of scheduling a meeting.

EA: That's already happening.

Jennie: Technical description - put historical information from findable help (2016 to present) into Google doc and updated wiki


Lisa: Review EO video scripts - Did anyone manage to review?
… I scanned quickly and didn't seem to involve us very much.

<Rachael> I agree that the current script topics for the videos do not seem COGA related

Lisa: I added pronunciation to our tasks but I don't think we've submitted feedback.

Rachael: accessible authentication - Alastair sent updated link
… comment period closed for WCAG 2.2. We are looking to return comments on accessible authentication within the next few weeks.

Lisa: We don't have a clear deadline?

Rachael: About two weeks. We are moving toward final stages of publication and it will take several weeks after COGA's review to wrap up.

<LisaSeemanKest_> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/labels/COGA

Lisa: We have 6 comments in Github that are tagged for COGA. Some are related to accessible authentication.

<Rachael> https://github.com/w3c/wcag/labels/COGA

<LisaSeemanKest_> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/labels/COGA

Jennie: I believe John R was working on accessible authentication.

Rachael: Will see who was working on visible controls.

<Rachael> David McDonald was helping us iwth Visible Controls

Lisa: Does anyone want to sign up to review either one of issues or more?

Rachael: I will take visible control issues.

EA: Was Steve looking at accessible authentication along with Abi?
… If you have dyslexia, why can't you open and see what you've entered? That was one of our concerns.

<LisaSeemanKest_> https://github.com/w3c/wcag/labels/COGA

Lisa: Another issue also discussed showing password to end users.

<EA> John Rochford seems to be on the list

Lisa: would it be easier to send to COGA via email?

Lisa: If you scroll down in Phil's issue, we can add comments which will be sent to AG.
… Does anyone else have time to comment on issue list?

Rachael: Visible controls - can come up with suggestions and discuss during next COGA meeting prior to entering comment.

<Jennie> +1 to Rachael's suggestion - it will simplify things a lot

Rachael: Will add the 6 issues for discussion during an upcoming meeting.

<last was Lisa>

EA: I submitted one comment on authentication just now.

Lisa: Any questions before we move on?

<LisaSeemanKest_> next item

<LisaSeemanKest_> https://w3c.github.io/apa/xaur/

Lisa: Josh is here from APA XR subgroup regarding user requirements

<LisaSeemanKest_> https://w3c.github.io/apa/xaur/#immersive-semantics-and-customization

Lisa: This is a list of user requirements and user needs. It has user needs followed by requirements (in terms of document structure).

Josh: We have been working on this document for 3 years and have many user needs and requirements covered, some related to COGA. We need science-related examples that demonstrate specific user needs in immersive/augmented reality.

<Jennie> *I can scribe Justine

Joh: This contains a lot of really good information about affordences and different modailities

Josh: We may have enough even in that to back up our research
… A lot of the heuristics, coming up with a best practice for this space, is out there

Lisa: The document you are talking about is Making Content Usable?

Josh: yes

Lisa: It is a note now

Josh: That's right, which means it is referenced in the document.
… I can discuss the feedback with APA
… The note - Content Usable, can then be used as the research

Lisa: It all maps to user needs

Josh: Exactly

Lisa: It maps the patterns

Josh: It is a really good document

Lisa: We are trying to address your requests

<Jennie> *All yours Justine

Lisa: Do you need more from us regarding pace/speed of environment?

Josh: Even non-normative content is seen as definitive which is natural but we need to be able to back up our assertions.
… Rain gave some good examples and indicated some text from Content Usable that can back up some of our claims.
… I can pop in next week to follow up.

David: We do have some research on mono vs. stereo sound. I need to dig up reference. Mono vs. stereo can disorient people with certain cognitive disabilities. We also have wayfinding guidance.

<Joshue108> thanks David, can you add the mono reference stuff to this issue?

<Joshue108> https://github.com/w3c/apa/issues/180

Lisa: You can always email to the thread or comment in Github once you find the information.
… or email directly to Josh.

Josh: I have enough information to move forward now.

<LisaSeemanKest_> next item

<LisaSeemanKest_> close item 4

<LisaSeemanKest_> close item 5

Josh: Any other questions?

<LisaSeemanKest_> next item

Lisa: We are working on a guidance document on how to work with COGA. It would be interesting to receive your feedback, Josh.
… getting on a call with us might be the best way to reach out.
… Let's skip inclusive group document for now.

<LisaSeemanKest_> tpoc: https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/1912

Lisa: Do we want to agree with this issue? Let's take a moment to review.

<Lisa reads feedback from Github issue>
… I'm inclined to agree but say that it might not always be enough. Thoughts?
… clarifying that you can use a password manager, etc.

<LisaSeemanKest_> this really does help (but is not always enogh)

<EA> But what is enough? +1



Jennie: I use a password tool that sometimes overlaps with icon that exposes the password text. Should we make sure that they don't overlap?

<LisaSeemanKest_> coga feels: this really does help but is not always enough to use it . care should be taken that the eaybal icon is not hidden when using a password manager.

Lisa: Thoughts on the above comment?

<LisaSeemanKest_> +1

<cweidner> +1


<Jennie> +1

Lisa: Should we validate this through the list?

<Jennie> I agree, should validate through the lsit

Agree that validating with the list is a good idea.

Lisa: Will move forward as suggested then.

<LisaSeemanKest_> https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/1902

Lisa: I think I agree with the confusion.

Jennie: Question for EA. We have the list of 100 most common words. If we look at symbol sets that are used for augmentative/alternative communication devices do we have a list of common objects that cross international boundaries?

EA: We discussed this in COGA a long time ago. Words that are most commonly used number between 100-500 but depends on the language. Some of us found that most common words don't always cross languages but we can probably focus on the commonly used words list.

Lisa: I'm not sure if common objects is a good idea.

EA: It isn't a great idea because it doesn't cross cultures.

Lisa: For example, is an image a boy or man? It might be obvious to author but not to others. A car vs. bicycle is another example.

<Rachael> The normative text (from the definition) is whether something "requires the user to remember, manipulate, or transcribe information", and this is requiring the manipulation of information.

Rachael: Alastair provided the preceding comment in Github to the issue.
… He suggested that we remove as a test (common objects).

Lisa: We will suggest removing. <prepares response>

<LisaSeemanKest_> coga suggest -common objects be rmoved , as it is oftwn hard to know what catigory it is in, and common, is not always common in diffrent culture

EA: When including categories, it can be perceived as parts of speech. We should clarify.

<LisaSeemanKest_> coga suggest -common objects be removed , as it is often hard to know what it is in, and common, is not always common in diffrent culture

EA: I agree.

<LisaSeemanKest_> +1

<LisaSeemanKest_> this included r=the trafic lights in captue

<LisaSeemanKest_> https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/1901

Lisa: Remembering email/username are not cognitive tests...I don't think that's true.

<Jennie> *dropping off but will join the Silver/Coga call after this in 2 minutes. Have a good week!

<Fazio> might be

EA: Are they tests of cognition rather than cognitive tests? These may be slightly different issues.

Rachael: This is trying to say that they are allowed as tests for authentication. Wording in understanding doc might need to be clarified that they are acceptable cognitive tests.

Lisa: Saying that they are acceptable because they can be copied/pasted from a notepad easily.

<LisaSeemanKest_> Remembering your email, address, and name are tests of cognitive ability. In fact they are just the tipe of test in a MCI mini mental test. They may be alowed for authetification as they can be copy paisted from a not pad quite easily, or filled in automaticaly by a autocomplete


<Fazio> +1

<EA> +1

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 136 (Thu May 27 13:50:24 2021 UTC).


Maybe present: David, EA, Joh, Josh, Lisa, Rachael