- Minutes -

Education and Outreach Working Group Teleconference

28 Feb 2020


The meeting began with a proposal from staff for how to deploy the Evaluation Videos on the WAI site for presentation at the upcoming CSUN conference. There was some confusion and a few questions. After consdieration, EOWG accepted staff recommendations and agreed to see how the deployment is received with the understanding that we have options for agile iteration once we get community feedback. Shawn introduced an idea for the creation of a Video Introduction to WAI Resources and WAI Website. KrisAnne, Helen and Estel-la volunteered to help develop the concept. The group discussed the need for a disclaimer on the Policies page and wording was suggested for that. The meeting wrapped up with a reminder to update avaialbility survey, stay in touch with work for this week. Daniel will post a survey on Monday to gather thoguhts on the next curriculum modules. The comments will inform discussion at the upcoming face to face meeting.



Shawn, Sharron, Lewis, Estella, Helen, Daniel, Laura, EricE, Brent, Shadi, Hidde, KrisAnne, Howard
Vicki, Kevin, Mark, Sylvie
Sharron, Brent


Evaluation Videos

Shawn: Chairs asked staff to review options and to present to the group our best ideas about how to present these videos since the AblePlayer does not do as well with severl installations on one page. Link to proposal is here, this is what we are proposing.

<shawn> https://github.com/w3c/wai-eval-overview/issues/12#issuecomment-592176208

<yatil> Approach 1: https://deploy-preview-11--wai-eval-overview.netlify.com/test-evaluate/

Shawn: we spoke about modals, expand/collapse and other wways to present. After review of the ideas, we are proposing to keep the video thumbnails visible (no expand collapse), will use a somewhat less accessible version player with a link to the AblePlayer which is fully optimized for accessibility.

Laura: Why the first video in Able Player and the others in another player?

Shawn: The proposal is to do the first one that way as an overview. However AP doesn't work well with several installmants on one page.

Laura: If there is a difference and people may notice, do we need that explanation of why?

Shawn: We should be alert to that and see if that is needed.

Hidde: Looking at it again, maybe we need a separate page for the intro video to be sure all the players on the page are the same. I'd propose that all HTML players are the same fully accessible one and that we put each on a separate page for consistency

Shawn: Other than having a different wrapper, what are the problems?

Hidde: It is a different user experience.

<yatil> +1 for consistent video players, not two different on one page

Shawn: The only expand/collapse is for the descriptive transcript, not sure most people will use that. The chairs were pretty eager for us to implement our best choice and then iterate as we get feedback. Staff decided the best to do would be to do something that was easiest to change. For example, all on separate pages.

Eric: The first player is in AblePlayer on the page, and the others are on spearate?

Shawn: No, the current proposal is that on the overview page, you see all the videos. On the subpages, like EasyChecks, you get the fully accessible video in AblePlayer.
... reminder these are just placeholder videos.

<shawn> https://deploy-preview-2--wai-wcag-em-overview.netlify.com/test-evaluate/conformance/wcag-em/#video-web-accessibility-conformance-evaluation-overview

Shawn: The concept is that the Overview has the overview video in the fully accessible AblePlayer while the others are in the slightly less accessible player. On the specific pages, such as EasyChecks, the related video is presented in its fully accessible form in AblePlayer. Other questions? Is it OK for a first interation?

Brent: What you showed us is the Overview page, when will we see the others?

Shawn: On the other pages, the video will be a section collapsed by default and if you choose it from the content list, it will expand.

<yatil> [ notes – Able player does not work here because it misses the subtitle files and therefore aborts before it displays the controls: https://deploy-preview-2--wai-wcag-em-overview.netlify.com/test-evaluate/conformance/wcag-em/]

Brent: The proposal has three parts. First is the overview page, which we have seen. The second part is how it is deployed on the specific pages and then there is a thrid part. Once we review and approve, we can implement next week for CSUN.

Laura: I am looking at the Overview page and you said they would always be visible but it seems you just said something else.

<brent> example of specific page implementation: https://deploy-preview-2--wai-wcag-em-overview.netlify.com/test-evaluate/conformance/wcag-em/#video-web-accessibility-conformance-evaluation-overview

<Helen> +1 to being confused with Laura :)

Shawn: Sorry. To be clear - no e/c on the Overview page but will have e/c on the specific pages like the WCAG EM. it will be collapsed by default on the specific pages.

Helen: A different player/treatment is confusing and not optimal for accessibility. The treatment on the Overview page should be consistent on the specific pages as well.

Shadi: My understanding was that on the specific pages such as the 3 overview pages for each tool, we wouold be using AblePlayer for that resource and that it is open by default. Can you clarify?

Shawn: Yes that is the fact for those with several sub-pages but I was trying to keep it simple to avoid confusing others.

Hidde: Wondering whether Helen's comment about consistency is related to the e/c used on specific pages and not the Overview?

Helen: It is more about the fact that if we cannot do something because of limitations, we recognize those limitations throughout.

Shadi: It is consistent in that it is open by default on the Overview pages and collapsed by default on the specific pages.

Shawn: There are two different use cases. May watch the video once when they come to the specific pages but don't want to watch it every time. The overview page is less likely to be used as often and the video is the main focus on that screen.

Helen: Want to avoid assuming we know how people will use it and be consistent in the presentation.

Eric: If you tell me someone goes to a page and look at a video only once and never again, I find it over the top to have the player download, then hide behind a collapse. We seem to now have three different ways of treating videos and it can be confusing.
... seems like a lot of effort for a little game that we don't know how it will be used.

Shawn: I am not 100% my preference however I do think it is the best first pass.

Sharron: As far as guessing what users will do, it seems a safe assumption that when people go to Easy Checks, they won't watch the video every time. I suggest we implement this, and then do some informal usability testing at CSUN. We need to make our best guess within these limitations. I'm happy with this, since we can iterate when we get more actual input from users

<shadi> +1 to Sharron

Shawn: Everyone felt that we saw pros and cons to both sides and we want to get it done to be able to get community feedback and make changes if that is the best thing to do.

Brent: My perspective is that it is OK to have the video visible everytime, I don't mind scrolling through past the video, and have no problem having it always visible. So let's just pick an approach that is the best solution for now and gather feedback to take us forward.

Shawn: For those who had comments about which video player to use there is a place to comment on that as well.
... I have a question for you Eric to come after the meeting.

Shawn: The proposal is to implement as described for now and continue to get user feedback, everyone OK with that?

<dmontalvo> +1

<Laura> +1

<hdv> +1

<Howard> +1

<yatil> +0 defer to group

<Helen> +1

<eoncins> +1

<brent> +1

<Lewis> +0

<shadi> +1

Sharron: +1

<krisannekinney> +1

Brent: The way to gather feedback is often word of mouth. Spread the word among your networks and if you get reactions, please share them.

Video Introduction to WAI Resources and WAI Website

Sharron: We recognize that videos engage people in a different way and often spark greater interest. It is an effective way to introduce resources. Helps them become involved with the tools and resources.
... In the new Introduction to Accessibility MOOC, there is a good video introducing accessibility to the students of the course.
... We think it would be valuable to have this type of introduction video for the WAI site and resources, another way to engage visitors to many often undiscovered assets within the site. Shawn had the opportunity to make a short kind of demo version of what we had in mind when she had the services of a professional videographer during the filming of the MOOC.

Shawn: Will try to share the videos through the screen share, not sure if it works...

Shawn: That was a video of headshots of people asking common questions about accessibility. Made with nonprofessional actors, nonprofessional videography. On the wiki page there is a section at the bottom with a description of those. There is a fairly diverse group of people.
... then when I was working with the video pro, we did a section about "go to WAI for more." I thought, while I had the guy there, why not try out the idea of using a generic intro to WAI resources. Here is a rough cut.
... (plays video segment)
... wanted to intro this idea, see if there is general agreement that it's worth doing, come to a general agreement about goals, audience, input - any comments or questions about that?
... second thing is to claify that we have a small budget to take the video content we have and edit it to be something we like and maybe integrate questions, etc. First step would be to develop a script that people could comment on.
... wondering if someone in EO would help shepherd this project, work as a facilitator of the project.

Helen: What is the purpose of it? Where would it be used and why?

Shawn: Good question, we currently have a video of what is accessibility all about

<shawn> currently have Video Introduction to Web Accessibility and W3C Standards https://www.w3.org/WAI/videos/standards-and-benefits/

ShawnWe want to discuss those very questions at the EOWG f2f meeting.

Estella: Since I am, in my job, trying to mainstream accessibility and to encourage people who do not have a technical background to engage and understand accessibility, I ma interested. Often people come to a technical border that makes them feel they cannot go beyond it.
... if videos are general and encourage that kind of engagement, I would volunteer. If technically oriented, not so much.

<krisannekinney> I will volunteer as well!

Shawn: Often, when Sharron and I do these intro to WAI resources presentations, we start by asking what would you like to find on the site? The wish list often reflects things that we actually have but people do not know about. Are most often non technical items.

Estella: Then I am happy to volunteer to help.

<shawn> yeah! Thanks Estella & KrisAnne!

Shawn: Thank you!

<shadi> https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Video-Based_Resources

Shadi: This video then is to explain WAI resources and the website, not technical items, is that right?
... so wanted to remind people that we will be working on more technical aspects of accessibility.
... I missed the difference between the unprofessionally produced QA videos and this project. Are you wanting to re-do those?

Shawn: NOt sure, want to bring these ad hoc ideas to EO to see what they want, write a script, maybe edit the draft that we have from the videographer.
... the thing I don't like about that video it is too foused on the web site itself rather than the breadth of resources that we have. Which led me to think we may want to use the videos of people asking questions.
... it is on the agenda for the F2F and wanted to get people oriented.

Shadi: A word of caution about thinking it is a small thing. May be able to rejuggle some of the plans for video production to meet this need.

Eric: From my observations on those conference talks, the biggest take aways was that they had their own questions, they saw that others had their own questions and how the resources addressed that. Not sure that can be replicated on a video.

<shadi> +1 to eric

Eric: maybe instead an "Ask Me Anything" kind of web cast. Live stream on Twitch or Mixer to illuminate current work and give people a chance to meet live. I think what might be really effective is 30 second videos on Twitter or somewhere.
... it is a big ask for people to come to use and watch our video.

Shadi: It is a great live presentation but I agree with Eric that it may not be the same in video. Also agree that if we are thinking about a campaign, what do we want to achieve? Do we want to let people know what is on our website. But if we want to go to the community and bring people in, we need to think about other ways like those Eric suggested.

Helen: I can volunteer as well now that I know more about what you are trying to do and can help bridge the gap between geek and non geek.

KrisAnne: I feel the same about the bridge. I like Eric's idea about AskMe. Letting people ask how do I do that? how do I do this? If we have an interactive transcript, that could be searchable and meet people's needs without having to listen to an entire video.
... people often have no idea what we have and the resources freely available.

Shawn: Seems like this is morphing into the broader idea of outreach and is awesome input - great!

Estella: To answer the intervention of Shadi, I see what Shawn wants as more of a preview step to the reosurces. Most of the professionals like transcribers and audio describers do not even know about WAI resources. With all the legislation coming into force, we need to make these more easily findable and usable.

Daniel: I also do not feel that a long video like the ones we do live can be effective on the website. Must be shorter. Would try instead to answer questions from a video clip rather than a presentation style.

Shawn: The video is just over 5 minutes and Shadi challenged me to get it to less than 5. Not at all thinking to do a presentation length video but stay at less than 5 minutes.

<Helen> would it be like a FAQ - with expandable snippets?

Shawn: Thanks Estells, Helen, KrisAnne and Hidde for volunteering. I may also have been too optimistic about it being a small thing, but it is exciting and I am grateful for all the help!

Policies wording

<shawn> https://github.com/w3c/wai-policies-prototype/issues/386

Brent: We have discussed the need for something like a disclaimer, Shawn has pulled together some resources.

Shawn: Here is proposal, take a reading break to review

<shawn> context -- https://www.w3.org/WAI/policies/

Laura: On item 3 where you say "at least one of the links below" ...

Shawn: Done, thanks

<Zakim> hdv, you wanted to say 'the'

Hidde: Same sentence, you need to add 'the'

<Howard> "the" is missing from the sentence

Shawn: Done, thanks

Shadi: I wonder about something even more generic, making it even shorter
... making clear W3C has no control over the other sites

<dmontalvo> +1 to Shadi's comment

Shawn: We plan to give EO a chance to comment but no survey, right chairs?

<shadi> [[The information on this page is not legal advice. Please consult legal authorities for the appropriate jurisdiction. W3C cannot guarantee the accessibility of these external resources.]]

Shawn: please put additional comments in GitHub.

<Helen> +1 to the plan suggested by Brent

Brent: Any reservationas about that plan to tweak the language and get feedback on the current language, implementing the changes and letting the planning team make that change?

<Howard> +1

Sharron: No reservations

<Laura> +1

<Lewis> +1

<dmontalvo> +1 Brent

<eoncins> +1

<krisannekinney> +1

<hdv> +1

<yatil> +1

<shawn> https://github.com/w3c/wai-policies-prototype/issues/386

<shawn> ^^^ put additional ideas there :-)


Brent: No weekly survey, thanks for all the comments on the ARRM matrix. ATAG Report Tool survey. On Monday we will open a curriculm survey. Will ask you to read through current conten and will ask for general comment as well as specific questions so that those who will not be at the F2F in person can comment through the discussion.
... added detailed info to the F2F wiki page

<brent> https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/EOWG_F2F_March_2020

<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to ask folks to update https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35532/availability/ (to help decide if we meet by phone Friday 6 March)

<Howard> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35532/availability/

Brent: Thanks for productive meeting, appreciate people stepping forward for these tasks, looking forward to seeing folks at CSUN, and have a great weekend.

trackbot, end meeting

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]

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$Date: 2020/03/04 08:26:42 $