bblfish=henry

how do I say I am scribing?

<elf-pavlik> scribe: bblfish

<scribe> scribe: bblfish

has the meeting started?

I mean the logger

<Mark> yup

elf-pavlick to speak of feedback-channel Decide on location for feedback channel from all the pioneers already running NSS and what to include in simple surveys e.g. Where do you terminate TLS? Do you keep WebID-TLS available? etc. Later it would also make it easier to create directory like https://fediverse.network/

elf-pavlick is looking for ways to be able to track the growth of solid.

elf-pavlik: looking for a way that we can keep statistics on servers.

<TallTed> bblfish - this may be helpful - https://www.w3.org/2009/CommonScribe/manual.html

Mitzi: is arguing this is related to a potential solid chat

<Fabian> Does it make sense to ask people to automatically submit this data from NSS?

who is talking?

<Fabian> Arne Hassel

<elf-pavlik> +1 yes/no in init script

<megoth> +1

<Fabian> This ties in with later discussion about conformance

elf-pavlik: thinks that in any case it would be useful to have a list of pod providers, to know how big the community is.

<Fabian> Why not y/n just auto send stats?

bblfish: I think one does not need a mailing list. Why not have a LDP-Container?

<Fabian> Append only container to store stats... signed via TLS?

<Fabian> Container can also be local

<TallTed> ScribeNick: bblfish

<michielbdejong> the listing of pod providers is for users to find a pod providers, that's a separate discussion from the mailing list on which pod providers would talk about hosting issues

<michielbdejong> i think the mailing list is a good idea, i think it would work better than a gitter channel

<Fabian> I would be interested in working on this

michielbdejong: I think michielbdejong summarised his point above

<Fabian> But can't commit to it this week, maybe in a few weeks, my contribution would be auto submit to container

criteria to be included as a Solid specifications contributor

details on the topic: (Mitzi Laszlo) Decide on criteria to be included as a Solid specifications contributor https://github.com/solid/solid-spec/pull/155 and https://github.com/solid/web-access-control-spec/pull/42 and https://github.com/solid/webid-oidc-spec/pull/17

Mitzi: discussion on whether pull requests should be voted on in conf calls.

elf-pavlik: speaks about different levels of editors, contributors and authors.

michielbdejong: says that there are many different ways to contribute, and the editors should be trusted

Mitzi: I lost track of what mitzi said

Accessibility and Solid

Fabian: Discuss conformance testing on a solid compatible implementation. This could also be ran on NSS itself to ensure no breaking changes over time. This could also extend to user interfaces to only include apps with a specific accessibility level to have them approved as conformed to the specification. AKA solid defines that all information should be accessible to all whether it be a human knowing specific communication mediums (visual, audi

o, touch [e.g. braille]), or machines knowing specific communication medums (https, wss, turtle, json+ld) etc

Fabian: mentioned various standards but I did not catch them.

<Fabian> https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/#location

<Fabian> 2.1 is 2018

Sina: there is a javascript framework, which gets you 20% of the way there

says Sina

scribe: and another step is W3C code valiation service that is Aria (?) is aware

<Fabian> I think we have an advantage here though as we have the backing graph already so we should know how that output data should be structured.

someone mentioned a tool. which one?

<Fabian> https://tenon.io/

<Fabian> I didn't catch the JS tool name

<elf-pavlik> https://www.deque.com/axe/

Sina: there was a mention of the Ack? framework

<Fabian> https://github.com/dequelabs/axe-core

<Fabian> This looks about right

ah axe core

+1 for having a JS-intro programming page which helps people be aware of this.

<megoth> treo.sh is also an interesting service wrt paid services - they do automatic validation with lighthouse that gives you a good dashboard

<Fabian> Maybe related to i18n https://github.com/jmvanel/rdf-i18n/tree/master/foaf

Mitzi: what is the best way to make all this information available to new people coming on board?

Sina: mentioned a two part strategy.
... should accessibility be a hard requirement on pull requests.

<Fabian> I don't believe different accessibility modes should be forced to go to another site

<Fabian> Thats like reverse accessibility

<elf-pavlik> bblfish: we should keep in mind that solid apps can compete in providing equivalent features, one of the criteria one can compare them on could be accessibility

<elf-pavlik> Sina: while it is possible they are often not done, and if they need to be don't they ended up being done by community already often under resourced

Sina: even though one could have a lot of different apps, the specialised communities may be too small for apps to be built for them. So really it is better to make accesiible apps in the first place.

bblfish: I agree.

<megoth> +1

Sina: the web starts out being accessible, and so doing it right is just good programming.

I agree. OpenLink has an advantage there as their lead engineer I believe is blind. :-)

is it megoth speaking?

<Mitzi> Fabian

<megoth> no, Fabian Cook

Fabian: speaking about conformance tests for apps,E conformance tests for web socket APIs, and other servers, and would allow one to have information about these servers.

Conformance tests

Mitzi: how would this look in practice, and how would it be actionable?

<Fabian> https://github.com/web-platform-tests/wpt

Fabian: one could have scripts like the above to test servers.

megoth: what would one be testing?

Fabian: web sockets API, ...

some ideas I have are tests on WebACL, WebID, LDP, etc...

Fabian: a suite of tests rather than one test. Can I start as a new used, follow OIDC or TLS, ...
... one could have a script that goes through the whole stage of creating a pod container, creates an id, ...

Here is the LDP test suite https://w3c.github.io/ldp-testsuite/

bblfish: being able to develop that to have a test suite based on that that to incorporate creation of base accounts, access control edition, etc...

<megoth> Fabian: KjetilK is working on a test suite for Solid servers

<justinwb> just want to point out the kjetil is leading a project to create this full surface test suite that all "compliant" solid servers should pass

<megoth> you should talk with him ;)

<Fabian> Is there a link to this?

<megoth> cannot remember it rn, but will try to find it and mention it to you on gitter

somoen is doing a test suite

Please put link in here if possible

<Fabian> I think the biggest thing to me around the test suite is to ensure that each spec is separated, so we can test each spec specifically. For example I've got seperate projects for basic read/writing documents over http, and then something seperate for WAC, and seperate for the RDF translation

+1

<Mitzi> Thank you Henry from the scribe work

sorry for not being that good at it.

<justinwb> yes agree with that fabian

<TallTed> ADJOURNED

<Fabian> Related: https://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/hg/tests/ldp-testsuite.html

This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.154  of Date: 2018/09/25 16:35:56  
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Present: elf-pavlik TallTed Fabian bblfish Mitzi megoth Jackson michielbdejong Daphne_Muller Mark_Weller Armando Jon_Pederson sylvain justinwb
Found Scribe: bblfish
Inferring ScribeNick: bblfish
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Agenda: https://www.w3.org/community/solid/wiki/Meetings
WARNING: Could not parse date.  Unknown month name "04": 2019-04-25
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<dbooth> Date: 12 Sep 2002

People with action items: 

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