13:52:51 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #solid
13:52:51 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2019/04/25-solid-irc
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14:01:55 <elf-pavlik> present+
14:02:05 <bblfish> bblfish=henry
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14:04:06 <bblfish> how do I say I am scribing?
14:04:19 <elf-pavlik> scribe: bblfish
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14:04:38 <bblfish> scribe: bblfish
14:04:47 <bblfish> has the meeting started?
14:04:57 <bblfish> I mean the logger
14:04:58 <Mark> yup
14:05:30 <Fabian> Fabian has joined #solid
14:05:44 <bblfish> elf-pavlick to speak of feedback-channel Decide on location for feedback channel from all the pioneers already running NSS and what to include in simple surveys e.g. Where do you terminate TLS? Do you keep WebID-TLS available? etc. Later it would also make it easier to create directory like https://fediverse.network/
14:06:07 <TallTed> agenda: https://www.w3.org/community/solid/wiki/Meetings
14:06:16 <TallTed> present+
14:06:24 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:06:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/04/25-solid-minutes.html TallTed
14:06:42 <TallTed> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:07:18 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:07:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/04/25-solid-minutes.html TallTed
14:07:25 <bblfish> I think elf-pavlick is looking for ways to be able to track the growth of solid.
14:08:20 <bblfish> elf is looking for a way that we can keep statistics on servers.
14:08:41 <TallTed> bblfish - this may be helpful - https://www.w3.org/2009/CommonScribe/manual.html
14:09:17 <TallTed> s/elf is looking/elf-pavlik: looking/
14:09:29 <TallTed> s/I think elf/elf/
14:09:36 <megoth> q+
14:09:49 <bblfish> Mitzi: is arguing this is related to a potential solid chat
14:10:04 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:10:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/04/25-solid-minutes.html TallTed
14:10:17 <Fabian> Does it make sense to ask people to automatically submit this data from NSS?
14:10:29 <bblfish> q+
14:10:34 <TallTed> chair: Mitzi
14:10:59 <bblfish> who is talking?
14:11:07 <TallTed> present+ Fabian elf-pavlik bblfish Mitzi megoth
14:11:07 <Fabian> Arne Hassel
14:11:29 <elf-pavlik> +1 yes/no in init script
14:11:33 <megoth> +1
14:12:13 <Fabian> This ties in with later discussion about conformance
14:12:34 <TallTed> present+ Jackson michielbdejong
14:12:37 <TallTed> Zakim, who's here?
14:12:37 <elf-pavlik> q?
14:12:39 <megoth> q+
14:12:39 <Zakim> Present: elf-pavlik, TallTed, Fabian, bblfish, Mitzi, megoth, Jackson, michielbdejong
14:12:39 <Zakim> On IRC I see Fabian, Mark, Jackson, michielbdejong, megoth, bblfish, Zakim, RRSAgent, TallTed, elf-pavlik, Mitzi, timbl, jonas1, KjetilK, amy, csarven, davidm, trackbot, ericP
14:14:54 <bblfish> elf-pavlik: thinks that in any case it would be useful to have a list of pod providers, to know how big the community is.
14:15:03 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:15:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/04/25-solid-minutes.html TallTed
14:15:35 <Fabian> Why not y/n just auto send stats?
14:15:53 <bblfish> bblfish: I think one does not need a mailing list. Why not have a LDP-Container?
14:16:00 <bblfish> q+
14:16:10 <Fabian> Append only container to store stats... signed via TLS?
14:16:31 <megoth> q+
14:16:44 <elf-pavlik> q+
14:17:35 <Fabian> Container can also be local
14:17:37 <TallTed> ScribeNick: bblfish
14:17:37 <TallTed> Meeting: Solid CG
14:17:38 <TallTed> Date: 2019-04-25
14:17:44 <michielbdejong> the listing of pod providers is for users to find a pod providers, that's a separate discussion from the mailing list on which pod providers would talk about hosting issues
14:18:13 <michielbdejong> i think the mailing list is a good idea, i think it would work better than a gitter channel
14:18:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/04/25-solid-minutes.html TallTed
14:18:46 <Fabian> I would be interested in working on this
14:18:55 <bblfish> michielbdejong: I think michielbdejong summarised his point above
14:19:14 <Fabian> But can't commit to it this week, maybe in a few weeks, my contribution would be auto submit to container
14:21:22 <elf-pavlik> q?
14:21:31 <elf-pavlik> queue=
14:21:40 <TallTed> TOPIC: criteria to be included as a Solid specifications contributor
14:21:54 <bblfish> details on the topic: (Mitzi Laszlo) Decide on criteria to be included as a Solid specifications contributor https://github.com/solid/solid-spec/pull/155 and https://github.com/solid/web-access-control-spec/pull/42 and https://github.com/solid/webid-oidc-spec/pull/17
14:22:41 <Fabian> q+
14:22:48 <elf-pavlik> q+
14:22:50 <megoth> q+
14:23:52 <bblfish> Mitzi: discussion on whether pull requests should be voted on in conf calls.
14:24:28 <bblfish> elf-pavlik: speaks about different levels of editors, contributors and authors.
14:25:21 <bblfish> michielbdejong: says that there are many different ways to contribute, and the editors should be trusted
14:25:43 <elf-pavlik> q?
14:25:48 <elf-pavlik> queue=
14:26:43 <TallTed> present+ Fabian
14:26:47 <bblfish> Mitzi: I lost track of what mitzi said
14:28:38 <megoth> q+
14:29:04 <bblfish> Topic: Accessibility and Solid
14:29:12 <bblfish> Fabian: Discuss conformance testing on a solid compatible implementation. This could also be ran on NSS itself to ensure no breaking changes over time. This could also extend to user interfaces to only include apps with a specific accessibility level to have them approved as conformed to the specification. AKA solid defines that all information should be accessible to all whether it be a human knowing specific communication mediums (visual, audi
14:29:12 <bblfish> o, touch [e.g. braille]), or machines knowing specific communication medums (https, wss, turtle, json+ld) etc
14:30:06 <bblfish> Fabian: mentioned various standards but I did not catch them.
14:30:19 <Fabian> https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/#location
14:30:21 <Fabian> 2.1 is 2018
14:30:26 <elf-pavlik> q+
14:31:25 <elf-pavlik> queue=
14:31:37 <bblfish> there is a javascript framework, which gets you 20% of the way there
14:31:45 <megoth> q+
14:31:49 <bblfish> says Fabian
14:32:14 <elf-pavlik> s/says Fabian/says Sina/
14:32:31 <bblfish> and another step is W3C code valiation service that is Aria (?) is aware
14:33:01 <Fabian> I think we have an advantage here though as we have the backing graph already so we should know how that output data should be structured.
14:33:02 <bblfish> someone mentioned a tool. which one?
14:33:21 <TallTed> s/there is a javascript framework/Sina: there is a javascript framework/
14:33:25 <Fabian> https://tenon.io/
14:33:38 <TallTed> s/and another step/... and another step/
14:33:50 <Fabian> I didn't catch the JS tool name
14:33:55 <elf-pavlik> https://www.deque.com/axe/
14:34:01 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:34:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/04/25-solid-minutes.html TallTed
14:34:07 <bblfish> Sina: there was a mention of the Ack? framework
14:34:09 <Fabian> https://github.com/dequelabs/axe-core
14:34:15 <Fabian> This looks about right
14:34:16 <bblfish> ah axe core
14:34:38 <elf-pavlik> q+ re: i18n
14:34:47 <megoth> q+
14:35:02 <bblfish> +1 for having a JS-intro programming page which helps people be aware of this.
14:35:28 <megoth> treo.sh is also an interesting service wrt paid services - they do automatic validation with lighthouse that gives you a good dashboard
14:35:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/04/25-solid-minutes.html TallTed
14:36:03 <Fabian> Maybe related to i18n https://github.com/jmvanel/rdf-i18n/tree/master/foaf
14:36:26 <bblfish> Mitzi: what is the best way to make all this information available to new people coming on board?
14:36:42 <megoth> q-
14:37:18 <bblfish> Sina: mentioned a two part strategy.
14:37:57 <bblfish> q+
14:38:04 <elf-pavlik> q-
14:38:57 <bblfish> Sina: should accessibility be a hard requirement on pull requests.
14:39:20 <megoth> q+
14:39:30 <justinwb> justinwb has joined #solid
14:41:21 <Fabian> I don't believe different accessibility modes should be forced to go to another site
14:41:28 <Fabian> Thats like reverse accessibility
14:41:34 <elf-pavlik> bblfish: we should keep in mind that solid apps can compete in providing equivalent features, one of the criteria one can compare them on could be accessibility
14:43:24 <Fabian> q+
14:43:32 <elf-pavlik> Sina: while it is possible they are often not done, and if they need to be don't they ended up being done by community already often under resourced
14:44:05 <bblfish> Sina: even though one could have a lot of different apps, the specialised communities may be too small for apps to be built for them. So really it is better to make accesiible apps in the first place.
14:44:11 <bblfish> bblfish: I agree.
14:44:19 <megoth> +1
14:45:20 <bblfish> Sina: the web starts out being accessible, and so doing it right is just good programming.
14:46:27 <bblfish> I agree. OpenLink has an advantage there as their lead engineer I believe is blind. :-)
14:46:45 <elf-pavlik> q?
14:46:51 <bblfish> q-
14:46:55 <elf-pavlik> queue=
14:46:57 <megoth> q-
14:47:40 <bblfish> is it megoth speaking?
14:47:48 <Mitzi> Fabian
14:47:48 <megoth> no, Fabian Cook
14:51:42 <bblfish> Fabian: speaking about conformance tests for apps,E conformance tests for web socket APIs, and other servers, and would allow one to have information about these servers.
14:51:43 <megoth> q+
14:51:58 <bblfish> Topic: Conformance tests
14:52:38 <bblfish> Mitzi: how would this look in practice, and how would it be actionable?
14:52:49 <Fabian> https://github.com/web-platform-tests/wpt
14:52:53 <elf-pavlik> q+
14:53:29 <bblfish> Fabian: one could have scripts like the above to test servers.
14:54:00 <bblfish> megoth: what would one be testing?
14:54:33 <bblfish> Fabian: web sockets API, ...
14:54:37 <bblfish> q+
14:55:03 <Fabian> q+
14:55:13 <bblfish> some ideas I have are tests on WebACL, WebID, LDP, etc...
14:56:15 <justinwb> q+
14:56:24 <bblfish> Fabian: a suite of tests rather than one test. Can I start as a new used, follow OIDC or TLS, ...
14:57:51 <bblfish> Fabian: one could have a script that goes through the whole stage of creating a pod container, creates an id, ...
14:58:33 <megoth> q+
14:58:41 <elf-pavlik> q-
14:59:40 <bblfish> Here is the LDP test suite https://w3c.github.io/ldp-testsuite/
15:01:07 <bblfish> bblfish: being able to develop that to have a test suite based on that that to incorporate creation of base accounts, access control edition, etc...
15:01:10 <megoth> Fabian: KjetilK is working on a test suite for Solid servers
15:01:15 <justinwb> just want to point out the kjetil is leading a project to create this full surface test suite that all "compliant" solid servers should pass
15:01:18 <megoth> you should talk with him ;)
15:01:22 <megoth> q-
15:01:32 <Fabian> Is there a link to this?
15:01:41 <megoth> q+
15:02:17 <megoth> cannot remember it rn, but will try to find it and mention it to you on gitter
15:03:16 <TallTed> present+ Daphne_Muller Mark_Weller Armando Jon_Pederson sylvain justinwb
15:03:29 <justinwb> q-
15:03:44 <TallTed> Log: https://www.w3.org/2019/04/25-solid-irc
15:03:52 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:03:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/04/25-solid-minutes.html TallTed
15:04:08 <bblfish> somoen is doing a test suite
15:04:15 <bblfish> Please put link in here if possible
15:04:20 <Fabian> I think the biggest thing to me around the test suite is to ensure that each spec is separated, so we can test each spec specifically. For example I've got seperate projects for basic read/writing documents over http, and then something seperate for WAC, and seperate for the RDF translation
15:04:32 <bblfish> +1
15:04:36 <Mitzi> Thank you Henry from the scribe work
15:04:57 <bblfish> sorry for not being that good at it.
15:05:10 <justinwb> yes agree with that fabian
15:05:19 <TallTed> ADJOURNED
15:05:21 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:05:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/04/25-solid-minutes.html TallTed
15:05:58 <Fabian> Related: https://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/hg/tests/ldp-testsuite.html
15:06:19 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:06:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/04/25-solid-minutes.html TallTed
15:09:51 <TallTed> trackbot, end meeting
15:09:51 <trackbot> Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
15:10:02 <TallTed> RRSAgent, bye
15:10:02 <RRSAgent> I see no action items