<Sharron> presnt+

<Sharron> Scribe: Sharron

Outreach

<shawn> https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Promoting_WAI_Translations

<shawn> other outreach info: https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/EOWG_Outreach

Brent: Current campaign is outreach for Translations. If you have done or seen any public chatter, articles, social media about Translations please share on the wiki.
... will showcase another resources soon. Planning team will determine which one is next, any comments, suggestions welcome.
... anything to share at this time?
... if you know of people interested in doing translations, there is information posted about what needs to be done and how to get involved. That's another kind of outreach to do on this specific resource. Any questions or comments?

Accessible Media Resource

Brent: Had asked for review of this resource, created by an external editor in collaboration with Judy. We reviewed it at that time but the external editor's time came to an end without it being completed. Shawn is leading an effort to finsish it. Shawn?

Shawn: Next step to follow up is to review an early proposal to separate the resource into two. First introductory or overview for content creator. Second would be the technical part essentially how to embed an accessible media player. Could be as little as one page.
... use cases, scenarios, and examples not meant to be comprehensive. Audiences and Tasks are meant to be more comprehensive, we can start with those two consideration. Any comments or questions?

<shawn> https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Accessible_Media_Guide

Robert: One quick question - this was originally done in the tutorial format. I wanted to understand why we are moving away from that format?

Shawn: There were questions about whether that was the right format even from the start. The resource itself seems to mix info for developers (only about 10%) with material for content providers (90%). It seemed not to go with other tutorial content which is more developer focused.

Laura: I agree that the content seems to need to be separated. We should be really clear in the resource that it is rlaeted to other content and to cross link if we separate it. Being able to find related inforation quickly and easily is also really important.

Shadi: I agree with the idea of keeping the association clear between the parts. At least initially in my mind the original requirements for tutorials was broader. I don't think it was intended to be only about coding or exclusively for developers. My view is that the Media information is fitting quite well in the tutorial format. Overview with general informaiton followed by detailed supporting pages for specific topics. I think it is a good fit within the tutorials.

Eric: We are painting ourselves into a corner by defining the tutorial format so narrowly. On the other hand, I don't think we have to call it a tutorial necessarily. In fact if I were to have it to do again, I would not use tutorial for Images or Carousel. Making that distinction and creating another layer of navigation may not be useful.

Shawn: One of the things about the site redesign was to promote this in the navigation. Two things to consdier: where it is in the info archetecture and how it is wrapped. The concept for the draft is about the same as the tutorials - over view, drill down into specifics. It will stay that way if we do/don't call it tutroal. There is more management information in this, however, rather than the simple how-to...

Shawn: and even if one person is the manager, support for managing media is separate from creating or implementing it. The tasks are different.

Daniel: Two visions - one is a single page for developers and the rest for managers seems useful to me. You have mentioned in the requirements that some people will come to the single page via search etc, which seems likely and single page navigation in that case will be good.

Shawn: To clarify on that - another option mentioned is to have the managing info on three pages. Specific aspects (like captioning) would still try to be one. Info for managing would be either on one or several pages.
... two things - where does it live in info arch and how is it wrapped?

<yatil> [ Eric notes that the Tutorials will all be in the new design eventually. ]

Shawn: The overview provides a suggestion for where it could sit - either within design and develop or a level down within the tutorials.
... Shadi, do you have ideas about whether you prefer it to be within the tutorial suite ot not?

Shadi: If the longer term plan is to move the tutorials up a level, that will be fine. I just feel the distinction between this and the tutorials was not clear.

Shawn: The current plan is not to move the tutorials up a level. So the decision would be to have the Media resource up in the navigation or within the tutorials.

<Sylvie> Si j'ai d'autres remarques je te mets dans un courriel, ça te polluera moins sur Slack

Eric: My documented plan is to move tutorials higher in the nav.

Shadi: I slightly question the usefulness of opening with the WCAG. The decision tree kind of thing might move to the end. Managing content seems to belong at the front in an abbreviated version. The main point is that this could be made more succinct and to the point - here is how to do these things with additional notes at the end.

Shawn: Let's look at the requirements as a way to help make theses decisions. Are there comments on the examples and the audiences and tasks?

<rjolly_> the audiences and tasks look really solid to me.

Brent: I liked the scenarios and use case examples. May add a role of someone who has to make videos for internal staff. Often they quickly create and post without consideration of that some people may not see or hear. It is never consdiered until a staff complains.

<rjolly_> that sounds like a sub-audience of creators (commenting on what Brent mentioned for internal staff)

Norah: Another one is a professor at a university. Often they have legal requirements that they are not aware of.

Shawn: Other thoughts on the requirements?

Shadi: The content creator and the video creator are by far the primary audience. The manager role is one that could apply to any of the tutorials and is not the primary audience for the 'how-to' aspects of the resource.

<Brent> +1 Agree with Shadi, Content and Video Creator are primary audience

Sharron: +1

<Laura> +1 to Shadi

<dmontalvo> +1 Shadi

Norah: Another missing part is an understanding of what makes the media player acessible and how to choose. Not just embedding but how to know what makes one accessible.

Shawn: We have that separate at this time

Norah: Should at least be referenced here.

<shawn> acl sy

Shawn: Good point, it is mentioned in a couple of places but could be more prominent.

Sylvie: They should know also about how to create captions in a separate track.

<Zakim> yatil, you wanted to say KISS

Shawn: That may be an overlapping question, maybe approaching as tasks rather than roles.

Eric: Good to think about audiences but also caution to keep it simple. Before we try too much and complicate the resource, remember to avoid scope creep, keep it relatively short.

Sharron: +1

<rjolly_> +1 yatil

Shawn: In summary, content/video creator are primary audience.
... add internal videos, university professors
... question about whether it is/isn't a "tutorial" remains open.
... anything else?

Shadi: several pages begin with a citation of the intro. Seems unecessary.

Shawn: That is listed in the Open Issues section. Once we figure out more about the approach, it may resolve itself or remain open.

Brent: Did you get what you needed about the outline?

Shawn: If managing is secondary, it will impact the outline and I will re-do based on this input. I know it is going to be a challenge, I will take another look at it based on this input.

Robert: As I listen, I agree with the primary audience but do not want to lose sight of the importance of the role of the manager. I wonder if focusing all the content around audience is not the right approach. What if we approach based on complexity? Start with high level understanding of the importance of accessible media and drill down to more technical aspects. Start with why it matters/general info and proceed to more complex.

Shawn: That is more what I was thinking as well.

Shadi: My question is will managers/business folks look into the design developer resources, will they even find it?
... overview pages in the tutorials actually do that - why it matters, etc

Shawn: This one defintely has more considerations. It is different from the other tutorials. So since there is more info about it, does it go here at all, maybe it goes somewhere else.

Shadi: I am not sure I agree. what considerations to manage these make it different? All of the tutorial topics have some management compnenet. The degree is on a spectrum but not that much different.

Norah: The gap I have experienced is that developers will say "I don't know about video" It is important to let the developer know that yes, they do have a role in this and it must be structured in a way that makes it clear to the developer what that role is and how to succeeed.

<shadi> +1 to norah

Shawn: Thanks everyone and will have a revised draft soon.
... will bring back on survey and/or meeting discussion.

Brent: Will add the question on the survey.

WAI Curriculum

Shadi: Apologies that this came in so late but we have been trying out different approaches. Suggested
... teaching outline was bullets (like in the Biz Case) but previous discussion suggested to break into more of a sequence of lessons. If it proves useful in this example, we will implement through out. Remember that this is not the final format, don't get distracted by presentation. Look at organization of content.
... suggestions about central learning objectives, materials, detail about what to do, how to support and how to validate learning. Is this the right direction to move?

Laura: I am not a teacher or trainer but to me, this level of detail is very helpful. I really liked it.

Shadi: As someone who is not a teacher, do you have enough information to create a presentation?

Laura: Yes if I were to be put in that situation, I would defintely use it.

<yatil> [ thinks the intros for the lessons should go into the expand/collapse instead of being separated out on the top ]

<shadi> +1 to eric

<dmontalvo> +1 Eric

Brent: Being a former public school teacher and also currently a trainer, I like all of the detail in here. I would comb through everything that is here, consume it all and then take what is most useful to me. Something this robust and lengthy is useful. We often try to make info more succinct in this case, it is great to have the options.

Howard: I agree with what was said. I like the detail, I did get a little confused about suggested teaching methods but maybe it was part of the last one?

Shadi: Yes, not sure how much to carry over from last structure. Assessments for example - do they occur on the unit level or lesson level?
... trying not to create too many constraints. Our thinking is that the unit is the measurable level of learning objective rather than the lessons.

Howard: Is the homework related to lesson?

Shadi: Yes, but the assessment is more on the unit level in the way we are thinking now.

Howard: It is always good to ask students to demonstrate knowledge through participation. The model you ahve here is fine. Suggested homework is a good way to address getting feeback from students and showing that they absorbed it. Assessment at the end of the unit seems fine as well.

Brent: formative assessments help instructors understand if their teaching is effective. summative assessments demonstrate if students have mastered the topic.
... trainers will do less assessment than teachers. Each lesson might have some formative feedback (maybe the homework) and at the end of the unit you may have a test or some sort of a more summative assessment at the end.

Shadi: Trying to provide leeway to pro trainers, teachers etc but this is really helpful to me Brent, thanks!

<shawn> [ Shawn also had touble figuring out where she was - what unit etc. I think probably need each unit on separate page -- or at least expand collapse (that's probably better do printing etc ) ]

Eric: I wonder if we could do even more with expand-collapse on this page. The repetition of "Suggested" this or that is a bit unecessary in my mind. It all belongs together somehow and giving teachers enough variety to keep students involved and allowing permission to overlap in ways that are comfortable to the trainer/teacher.

Shadi: Please don't be distracted by layout, presentation, etc. We are not skilled at design and hope to have help with that soon.
... I don't know what to do about the "suggested" - it applies to the whole thing. I agree that it could be approached in different ways and it is difficult to convey that without being repetitive. maybe the design will help.
... really want to address learning outcomes for the unit but break it down in different ways.

Sharron: I think the issue of making it clear that this is a suggestion only. Maybe not worry too much because people who are experienced teachers will put it into their own style and format. Other people who are accessibility people but not necessarily teachers can use the lessons almost exactly. Both are fine uses of the material

<Brent> I believe no need for "suggested" in the titles

Sharron: Maybe we can pepper it throughout and say 'maybe use this' or 'here's a suggestion for that' instead of the multiple repetitions in the headings. I hope we can relax a little bit about that.

<Howard> ++1 to Sharron

<Brent> +1

<Laura> +1 to Sharron

Howard:Technical requirements are different from curriculum. I think with curriculum you don't have to worry about over-suggesting.

Shadi: Maybe as it develops we can use the design to support the notion of adaptability.

Shawn: Generally I agree. One thing to keep in mind, however is the question of when people are procuring training, it may be judged against this curriculum. I am a procurement officer and I check the outline of a vendor against this curriculum. We want to remember that possible scenario.

<Brent> [tongue-in-cheek] When procuring training it is the responsibility of the purchaser to review the outline and coverage of the content prior to purchasing. If they don't feel that it lines up with the "wai curricula" then they shouldn't purchase it in the first place.

Shadi: Yes we do not want to overthink but also don't want to overlook things like that. We must find the most widely useful middle ground.

<Brent> They shouldn't be using this resource to judge something they purchased after the fact.

Naming the Resources

Daniel: If we can turn now to consider how we want to name this suite of resources. We have collected some suggestions on a page of the EO wiki:

<dmontalvo> https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/WAI_Curricula/Title

<shadi> [[* WAI Curricula: Build Your Courses on Web Accessibility Courses

<shadi> ]]

Daniel: The word curricula itself is not as easily recognized and understood, so we have some alternatives

<shadi> [[ "Curricula on Web Accessibility".

<shadi> "ICT Accessibility Curricula",

<shadi> "Web Accessibility Training Curricula.

<shadi> WAI Curricula: Build Your Web Accessibility Courses

<shadi> WAI Curricula: Build Your Courses on Web Accessibility]]

Laura: I looked yesterday and it occured to me WAI Curricula for Web Accessibility Courses

<shadi> WAI Curricula for Accessibility Courses

<shawn> Digital

<yatil> [ Curricula Framework for Digital Accessibility ]

<shadi> Digital Accessibility Curricula

Daniel: The reference to ICT since it is very much related to urban design and not confused with physical accessibility

<Brent> +1 to Laura's "WAI Curricula for Web Accessibility Courses"

<shawn> Is it OK if people put their brainstorms on that wiki page.

<Sylvie> +1 to Laura's proposal

<shawn> -1 for "WAI" in the title (although could be convinced)

Howard: There is something about WAI Curricula but I am a little worried about how it maight restrict people. The word curricula gives authority but also might give the impression of a standard that may make people feel that they must adhere strictly.
... I think I like Curricula on Web Accessibility to avoid the feeling they must adhere to the WAI standard.

Shawn: I had separately said I have some hesitation about using WAI in the title.

<yatil> [ -WAI because people could say they are giving "official W3C/WAI courses", also people might not know what WAI stands for and it is confusing ]

Howard: Mixed feelings - I like the authroity but worry that it wil constrict people's willingness to adapt it for as they need.

<shawn> Sharron: build you own" in the title tells people these are bulding blocks for you to do what you want

<Brent> "Curricula: A resource for developing courses"

<shawn> .... that gives permission to do it your way

Shadi: We are trying to find a balance between the authority of WAI and the leeway we try to give as well as the use of the word curricula. People often think curricula means you are writing courses.

<shawn> brainstorm -- "Digital Accessibility Curricula for Building Courses"

<Howard> +1 to Brent's title above

Brent: I agree with Howard, as I understood what he was saying I see that people could easily make the jump to "this is how WAI says you must teach this topic"

<Howard> Web Accessibility Curricula: A resource for developing courses

<Howard> or Curricula: A resource for developing courses on Web Accessibility

<shawn> brainstorm -- "Digital Accessibility Curricula for Developing Courses"

<shawn> brainstorm -- "Curricula for Developing Digital Accessibility Courses"

<rjolly_> Digital Accessibility Training Curricula

<yatil> Building Digital Accessibility Courses

Lewis: I agree with avoiding WAI in the title since it could be overinterpreted to mean this is it set in stone.

Laura: Given the conversation, I do like leaving WAI in the title and I like the idea of Building. Can use the powerful brand of WAI with the idea that it is flexible and meant to create your own courses.

<shawn> [ Shawn thinks being on the WAI website gives it sufficient "branding" ]

<yatil> Course Building Blocks

<shawn> +1 to "digital" seems more modern than "ICT"

<Brent> +1 to Shawn about branding already there.

Norah: I liked Shawn's suggestion, possibly something to reference the expert status of WAI and by providing options you encourage people to use it with discretion. I understand the caution around the word curricula. Is there hesitation around ICT and is digital more easily understtod?

<Zakim> yatil, you wanted to say -1 to WAI

<yatil> Building Blocks for Digital Accessibility Courses

Eric: Generally I hestiate to use WAI in the title. It should be enough to be on the site. The danger is "we are doing the WAI course" It may happen anyway but ...

Shadi: Why is that a risk?

Eric: People may expect a certification or something. Seems a risk but I am fine if you don't think so.

Shadi: As Howard said, it could be a strength.

Eric: May want to have a stcker to indicate "our training is based on the WAI curricula" or something to point back.

Shawn: We will not have trouble getting people to use it. Another danger may be people use it, present it as an official WAI course, and then use offensive disability langague or such, or give bad information

Robert: I do like "Digital" in the title but I have no strong feelings. The title is imprtoant but is not a show stopper as long as it describes the content reasonalby well.

<shawn> Sharron: Thinking about "we teach the WAI course" and then do something stupid [offensive]. That is something to be conscious of. Recently we heard about an instructor saying things that are inaccurate. We can't monitor all of them. What can we do to ptotect agaginst people say "This is the aauthorataive WAI course" and then do bad things.

Brent: If someone uses inapproapriate language or erroneous content in a "WAI course" we must hope that people will check the source. We really cannot worry about that.

<shawn> +1 to Erics idea of boilerplate wording that people can use "... based on material provided by WAI"

Shadi: Just like people currently misrepresent WCAG it is likely to happen. We will try to put guidance language. By providing metrics we also intend tranparency. We are trying to address that very fact - that there is much bad information out there.

Eric: Before I started teaching at university I was not as familiar with curricula as a term. I understand that it is meaningful to a small and important segment of the intended audience but it is also widely misunderstood. So good luck.

Shadi: Please do add to the wiki page any addiitonal ideas, brainstorms, etc for titles.

Media Redux

Shawn: A point to think about is that it is actually kinda hard to figure out which WCAG SCs apply to my specific media

Brent: People always look for guidance and if the resource could address that somehow it would be useful.

WrapUp

Brent: Please try to review posted agenda for items to read before the meeting. We will post a survey, update work for this week, please stay in touch thanks for all you do.

All: Happy Easter, have a nice weekend.