Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference

19 Mar 2018



MichaelC, jasonjgw, JakeAbma, marcjohlic, Joshue108, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Laura, Glenda, JF, jallan, MikeGower, maryjom, Kathy
Andrew, Josh
Glenda, jallan, Ryladog, allanj


<AWK> Dial-in info: https://www.w3.org/2017/08/telecon-info_ag-ftf

<MichaelC> meeting: Face to Face Day 1

<AWK> Timeline: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/WCAG_2.1_timeline

<Glenda> scribe: Glenda

Intros (going around the room meeting each other)

In room intros: Chuck (oracle) Jake (ing), Joshue(co-chair), Michael (W3C staff contact) Katie (Original WCAGer AC rep for Knowbility, works at DQ) Andrew (out getting surge protectors so we can plug in), David MacDonald (original WCAGer), Jim Allan (TSBVI + Chair Low Vision Task Force), Foliot (AC rep for Deque), Marc (IBM), Jason White (original WCAGer)

On phone: Laura Carlson

Review of timeline

<MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/WCAG_2.1_timeline/Details

<MichaelC> CR scorecard

March 15 - First draft of implementation report - we need to add more

<laura> https://www.w3.org/2017/08/telecon-info_ag

Michael - we need to identify all the AA sites that we will include in the March 30 semi final draft report. We need to scramble to find all 8 sites. We only have 3 at AA.

Michael - comments need to be closed by April 10

Michael - we need to actually close comments by March 30 so there is time until April 10 for them to have had time to know it is closed and not protest.

Michael - April 12 we need all impementations and all comments are closed…so we can have Draft Transition Request for PR

Michael - after we get to Request for PR…we can then focus on Understanding documents

Micahel - May 30 will be a big push (to address all comments/concerns from ACs)

Jake: Are we on schedule?

Michael: We are on schedule (pretty much).
... We will review our progress by the end of tomorrow.
... focus right now…implementations and evaluations

Joshue: can we see sites that met 1.3.4?

JF: Chris McMeeking is building the extension that will allow us to use 1.3.4 (with just a bit of meta-data)

<laura> not great. but I think I am getting most of it.

<Joshue108> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/WCAG_2.1_Implementations#Level_AA

Review of current implementations and gaps

Roy just walked in (W3C staff…focusing on personalization and coga)

<Joshue108> I've taken those JQuery examples out JF

AWK: let’s try to give each other clear air time so the mic in the room can pick up the sound (and people on the phone can hear)

<AWK> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG21/CR/

<AWK> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG21/CR/implementations

<JakeAbma> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG21/CR/implementations

AWK: proposed activities for this morning - lets evaluate so we have more passing at https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG21/CR/implementations

Joshue: How can I tell if this list of Implementations is for “full sites”.

AWK: look at this page https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG21/CR/implementations in the Level column. Look for A, AA or AAA in that Level Column…those are full site implementations.

Michael - full sites - can passively pass WCAG 2.1 items

AWK: let’s split up the eval work for the list of implementations listed here https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG21/CR/implementations and see if any of these sites are good candidates

<Joshue108> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG21/CR/implementations

AWK: are good candidates for full site implementation

<Joshue108> I'm going to look at the Gov.UK stuff..

<JF> https://john.foliot.ca/demos/autofill.php

<Ryladog> I'll do 2.6.2 Orientation for YouTube and Lego

Michael: great to see a stie that uses some of the 1.3.4 meta data

AWK: this example (JF’s) is a more rigorious test than just what you would find on a site’s contact us page

<laura> I tested 2.6.2 Orientation - Youtube.com

<marcjohlic> I'll do 2.6.2 Lego (for 2nd test)

<marcjohlic> Sorry 2.6.2 Orientation Lego for 2nd test

I will take DQU and State Farm

AWK: evaluation time.

<AWK> People on the phone, there won't be much good audio for a while but be will reconvene in ~1 hour

<AWK> Audio will still be on but won't be clear...

<AWK> AWK will look at India times for 2.5.1

<marcjohlic> Also taking 2.2.6 Timeouts for Ticketmaster

<Joshue108> FYI When doing an eval don't worry about the 'Select technologies to evaluate' option.

<AWK> AWK now ditching the India times testing

<AWK> AWK working on Megamenu.com 1.4.13

<Joshue108> guys - would label in name cover when placeholder text is used in a search input that (already has a suitable label)?

<Joshue108> Josh did Label in Name 2.4.12

<laura> I have done: Google - 1.4.12 Text Spacing, Adobe Mega Menu - 1.4.12 Text Spacing, Wikipedia Main Page - 1.4.12 Text Spacing, The Boston Globe Homepage, BBC Homepage - 1.4.10 Reflow, Gov.UK / 1.4.10 Reflow, Apple / 2.2.7 Animation from Interaction (photography-how-to), and Apple / 2.2.7 Animation from Interaction (environment).

<laura> working on: Adrian Roselli / 1.4.11 Non Text Contrast

<AllanJ> scribe: jallan

<Joshue108> great progress all :-)

<AllanJ> awk: infographics on flickr, the graphic is there, the the publication that it originally appear in is no longer in existence.

<AllanJ> ... would rather have active sites.

<laura> @alastairc we had 2 Animation from Interaction implementations (photography-how-to) and (environment) from apple. now only one is showing up. https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG21/CR/implementations

<AllanJ> gs: I have 2 graphics listed in the implementation site. need a second check. and will move to w3 page

<Joshue108> I've done all the 2.4.12 Label in Name SCs.

<AllanJ> dm: a page of thumbnails (10 products) that you can swipe across (carousel). reflow - scrolling left and right

<AllanJ> ... if the usage is swipe, its not scrolling - its caroselling.

<AllanJ> @@ need to add definition of carouselling in reflow understanding document. Moving a section of the document (product group) that does not move the entire contents of the page

<laura> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG21/CR/implementation_experience?implementation_id=148

<laura> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG21/CR/implementation_experience?implementation_id=147

<laura> you’re welcome.

<laura> @AllanJ I’m not getting that bit about one free article left.

<laura> http://www.d.umn.edu/~lcarlson/wcagwg/2.1_implementations/bostonglobe_subsctibe_100_percent.png

<laura> http://www.d.umn.edu/~lcarlson/wcagwg/2.1_implementations/bostonglobe_subsctibe_400_percent.png

<laura> Jim, okay. I can’t reproduce it anyway.

<laura> @AllanJ is tsbvi ready to be re-tested for reflow?

<Joshue108> 2.2.7 Animation from Interactions and Apple.com/environments

<laura> Reduced Motion: https://support.apple.com/kb/PH25204

<Joshue108> thanks!

<laura> works in Safari.

<Joshue108> Thanks Laura - have checked it..

<laura> Thanks!

<Joshue108> Works well - I hadn't looked at that before

<Joshue108> Thanks :-)

<laura> @AllanJ okay. Should we just test the tsbvi homepage for reflow then?

<laura> Okay. Thanks!

<Joshue108> Im looking at Animation from Interactions and the Apple example only works in Safari, not Opera or Chrome.

<laura> Yes. Just Safari.

<laura> cookiecrook filed bugs. Mozilla: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1365045, Chrome https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=722548, Microsoft: https://wpdev.uservoice.com/forums/257854-microsoft-edge-developer/suggestions/19291531-add-support-for-css-prefers-reduced-motion-media-f

<laura> Need to drop off now.

<laura> bye all.

When y’all get to testing for “Text Spacing” try using Stylish extension in Chrome and use Laura Carlson’s style. https://userstyles.org/styles/154735/wcag-2-1-text-spacing-test

For https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/#text-spacing

<AWK> OK, getting going again

Open issues – identify which are still open, resolve issues, and assign for people to work on new/incomplete ones

<AWK> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues

<Ryladog> Scribe: Ryladog

AWK: By midnight on March 30th comment deadline
... Lets look at some comments


MJ: Assigned to me

DM: why dont we just take an issue each?

AWK: I am fine withe that

JO: I am fine with that

<Joshue108> github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues

<AWK> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22CR+Comment%22

AWK: CR comment of the 39 open issues should be worked on

<Joshue108> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/labels/CR%20Comment

<Joshue108> Thats the one with CR comments

Katie taking 778

<Joshue108> I'm on 808

<marcjohlic> Marc is taking 763

<AWK> "Please confirm is you are satisfied with the response within 1 week. If we haven't heard a response in a week we will regard the resolution as satisfactory."


RESOLUTION: Accepted as proposed

AWK: Target Size 754

RESOLUTION: Accepted as proposed - Issue #754 - with AWK edits

AWK: # 752

DM: Is looking at WCAG2ICT with template for new SCs

RESOLUTION: Accepted as proposed - Issue #753

AWK: #773

<AWK> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/773#issuecomment-373451511

<Joshue108> https://developer.apple.com/documentation/uikit/uicontrolevents/1618236-touchupinside

<AllanJ> scribe: allanj

mg: also having trouble with first bullet. is there a way to do editorial change.
... don't see a problem with leaving it in, if no one does it. concerned that this is not just editorial

awk: could explain in understanding.
... can't think of scenario where down event is not some part of a function.

joc: this is new information.
... want PHL to review

awk: there are things that trigger on down event...piano, shooting.

jw: down event is not used as completion of entire event, but only as some part of a series of events.
... touch screen with a touch-slide without a discrete down event.
... may be difficult to clarify at this point.

dm: must have an explicit down event. don't know of any up events that that didn't have a down event (but it was not explicit)

awk: need someone who has more experience/knowledge to review this
... does apple up inside/outside work with these bullets. ask PHL

<Zakim> gowerm, you wanted to say I think that first bullet covers a few things logically

mg: discussion off the issue. need to focus on one issue only.
... down event needs focus. check with StephenR. may be needed for logical scenario. but there are issues.
... perhaps close issue and open a new issue on bullet one.
... abort undo is confusing.

RESOLUTION: Leave Open - Issue #753 - for review by Chris McM, Patrick

RESOLUTION: Leave Open - Issue #753 - for review by Chris McM, Patrick

issue 765

<Ryladog> scribe: Ryladog

AWK: #765

<AllanJ> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/765

<AllanJ> awk: the message happens. the user needs to know. how it happens - role changes, state change, etc. is not the issue. it needs to be programmatically determinable.

<AllanJ> mg: role is what flags it to the AT.

<AllanJ> khs: also state change

<AllanJ> mg: how does state change happen without focus.

<AllanJ> joc: post notification event will do it.

<AllanJ> dm: think is works and awks suggestion..

<Joshue108> UIPostNotificationEvent - that polls the screen reader to tell them that a notifcation is present without giving focus.

<AllanJ> mg: without role, the AT can traverse an item with changing the focus in the DOM, then you will automatically meet the new wording.

<AllanJ> jw: need to determine the status message.

<AllanJ> ... concerned with name, role, state, etc. what if some new html creates a new 'message' attribute, then what happens? raises point of separation of implementation in content vs outcome.

<AllanJ> khs: name, role, and state is communicating with A11yAPI.

<AllanJ> mc: if new element, it will be mapped to the AAPI.

<AllanJ> mg: nothing in wording prevents me from passing.

<AllanJ> dm: what about virtual focus vs dynamic focus.

<AllanJ> ja: what about DOM focus?

<AllanJ> awk: added note in the issue. soliciting more comments

<AllanJ> mg: perhaps ask PK if his concern is about understanding doc or something else?

<AllanJ> awk: do we change the name of the SC

<AllanJ> awk: if cart with an update covered by 412. if a message says "cart updated" that you can only see, it is not covered.

<gowerm> If David is comfortable changing this to Status Messages, I'm fine changing the name. That will let me trim material off the advisory techniques and the Understanding doc

<AllanJ> jf: siimilar to role=spinner

<AllanJ> awk: any objections to change name to STATUS MESSAGES.

<AllanJ> none heard

<AllanJ> awk: not changing word till we hear from PK

RESOLUTION: Change SC title to Status Messages, and follow up with commenter about changes

RESOLUTION: Change SC Title to Status Message (including loading) and follow up with commenter about response - Issue #765

<Glenda> https://dequeuniversity.com/library/aria/date-pickers/sf-date-picker

<AllanJ> 5 min break

<Glenda> https://dequeuniversity.com/curriculum/packages/documents

<AllanJ> back from break

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

  1. Accepted as proposed
  2. Accepted as proposed - Issue #754 - with AWK edits
  3. Accepted as proposed - Issue #753
  4. Leave Open - Issue #753 - for review by Chris McM, Patrick
  5. Leave Open - Issue #753 - for review by Chris McM, Patrick
  6. Change SC title to Status Messages, and follow up with commenter about changes
  7. Change SC Title to Status Message (including loading) and follow up with commenter about response - Issue #765
[End of minutes]

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Present: MichaelC jasonjgw JakeAbma marcjohlic Joshue108 Katie_Haritos-Shea Laura Glenda JF jallan MikeGower maryjom Kathy
Found Scribe: Glenda
Inferring ScribeNick: Glenda
Found Scribe: jallan
Found Scribe: Ryladog
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Found Scribe: allanj
Inferring ScribeNick: AllanJ
Found Scribe: Ryladog
Inferring ScribeNick: Ryladog
Scribes: Glenda, jallan, Ryladog, allanj
ScribeNicks: Glenda, Ryladog, AllanJ
Agenda: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Meetings/CSUN_2018
Found Date: 19 Mar 2018
People with action items: 

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