Verifiable Credentials Working Group Telco — Minutes

Date: 2022-07-20

See also the Agenda and the IRC Log

Attendees

Present: Brent Zundel, Michael Prorock, Logan Porter, Shigeya Suzuki, Manu Sporny, Gabe Cohen, Michael Jones, Orie Steele, David Waite, Kristina Yasuda, Dmitri Zagidulin, Andrew Whitehead, Ted Thibodeau Jr., Oliver Terbu, Joe Andrieu, Kevin Dean, Justin Richer

Regrets: cel[m]

Guests:

Chair: Brent Zundel

Scribe(s): Kevin Dean, Kristina Yasuda

Content:

Brent Zundel: Reviewed agenda.

1. Participation renewal.

2. Expectations for JWT-VC.

Brent Zundel: Reviewed editors for VC documents.
… editors of the deliverables that chairs have named. vc-data-model - Manu, Mike J, Orie, and Gabe;….
… Goal of topics today is to set goals for each work item and to have conversations around work modes.

Orie Steele: Talking about VC-JWT.
… Harder to start the work on, probably have enough to get going. Copying over from the current data model only parts relevant to JWT to get started..

Michael Prorock: +1 orie - copy over existing as a starting place for add ons.

Orie Steele: Just base components copied over. Opens the door to adding text related to JWT moving forward..
… under securing VCs. jwt-vc: MikeJ, Orie; JsonWebSignature2020: Orie, MikeP, MikeJ; Data Integrity: Manu….

Manu Sporny: +1 orie - copy VC-JWT section to new spec as a starting place, do a FPWD using that..

Orie Steele: Right first step for the group to take..
… if interested in being an editor, please reach out to the chairs….
… chairs might reach out to you.

Kristina Yasuda: lol justin.

sb: +1 and I haven’t spoken up yet, but am happy to help edit VC JWT and do whatever Orie and Mike tell me to do :).

Manu Sporny: https://www.w3.org/TR/vc-data-model/#json-web-token.

Manu Sporny: Supports general proposal. Notes that section of the spec that Orie is referring to is 3.1..
… Only other thing is that there are a couple other issues in the data model that are JWT-specific and should be transferred over..

Michael Jones: Separate repositories and issue trackers for each spec..
… Once these are copied, next step is to delete them from the existing repositories..

Michael Prorock: +1 selfissued.

Manu Sporny: Different document for data integrity..
… Data model should just refer to documents to which its contents are copied..

Orie Steele: I think we will want to remove “proof” examples form the vc data model… at some point..

3. Expectations for JsonWebSignature2020.

Brent Zundel: Next topic is JWS-2020..

Orie Steele: Working with manu on how to get started..
… Working too..

Michael Prorock: https://github.com/w3c-ccg/lds-jws2020/.

Orie Steele: Most of the spec work done, confirmed with group that it was OK to move everything over..
… Already opened issue to cover the proposal..

Michael Prorock: https://github.com/w3c-ccg/lds-jws2020/pull/98.

Orie Steele: Existing repo will become read-only archive for history..
… Pull request in CCG to tackle the beginning..

Michael Prorock: Big support for Orie for this repo..

Orie Steele: Here is the current PR: https://github.com/w3c-ccg/lds-jws2020/pull/98.

Michael Prorock: Once repo setup is done, in a position to take pull requests..

Orie Steele: Here is the new repo: https://github.com/w3c/vc-jws-2020.

Orie Steele: To be clear, I’m only talking about doing this, for this repo… not the other ones.

Manu Sporny: +1 to Orie..
… Don’t want to apply same process to other repos, need to make different decisions..

Orie Steele: Wants to have new rendered version of the spec in the VC working group with a draft title. Wants CI system to take editors’ draft revisions..
… Doesn’t feel that it’s ready to be published in its current form. If we have to do a first publish as first action, still happy to do it that way..

Manu Sporny: We don’t have to do a FPWD right off the bat..

Manu Sporny: W3C process doesn’t require FPWD as part of the process of moving the document over to a new repository. FPWD requires working group approval..
… Kicks off the process of handing sets of documents over to the working groups, already started..
… Need to publish through CCG and need to coordinate with staff contact to publish in permanent location and get final IPR commitments..
… All of that can happen in parallel. Don’t need to block us doing editors’ drafts..
… Usually done in serial..
… Only IPR can affect doing in parallel. That’s OK over the next month or two..
… Order of operations: publish as final community group specification, get IPR commitments, move int VCWG, publish as editor’s draft..

Michael Prorock: Agrees IPR transfer is the biggest issue. Feels better when stuff is signed off to avoid potential problems..

Michael Prorock: +1 editor draft existance.

Orie Steele: Get an error when version is not properly specified. First action should be to take an editor’s draft that can be pointed to immediately as source for first revision..

Kristina Yasuda: Thinks IPR requirements are different between working groups and community groups. Reach out to chairs to ensure everything is in order..

Michael Prorock: +1 kristina - better by the book on this.

Orie Steele: This bit here, this is what I would prefer to point to the W3C WG: https://github.com/w3c-ccg/lds-jws2020/pull/98/files#diff-b04b38d4e36f7a7171aeb211bf933eaf36d41d9866ebbc3639f673f84dc350aeR24.

Manu Sporny: +1 to kristina_.
… Process was setup specifically for documents moving from WG to CG..
… Latest revision URL has to point to proper version. Can’t point to a GitHub URL, has to be at w3.org..
… +1 to parallelize this..
… Doesn’t believe we are creating any risk by working on it in parallel..

Orie Steele: to get around the “respec” issue, I just pointed it to our charter :) … I would prefer to have it throw a respec error and point to a proper editors draft..

Michael Prorock: Recent example at IETF where folks got a little hasty and things were not in order, created chaos that didn’t need to exist..
… Get moving, but be aware of risk..

Manu Sporny: +1 to mprorock.
… Long timeframe to get IPR commitments (up to a month)..

Michael Prorock: +1 manu.

Manu Sporny: Because of the number of documents, it is the editors’ jobs to get IPR commitments..
… Sometimes person is non-responsive. Content then reviewed to determine any IPR concerns..
… Group pulls in changes if no issues..

Brent Zundel: Supports the notion that we need to work in parallel..
… Not concerned about moving forward with a little bit of boldness..
… One last comment, do not believe we need to make a formal resolution. Does anyone oppose moving the JWS-2020 from CCG to VC WG?.
… Heard no opposition..

Orie Steele: I would also like to do an ED for VC-JWT and move over the proof section..

Manu Sporny: Would prefer that we have a resolution. This is an active thing that the working group is doing, would rather have it on the record..
… No opposition is probably good enough, but resolution would be better..

Brent Zundel: Offers to draft proposal or ask others to do so..
… Will go ahead and run the proposal..

Proposed resolution: The workgroup will pull in the lds-jws2020 ccg work item into the vcwg and cut an ed for it. (Brent Zundel)

Manu Sporny: +1.

Ted Thibodeau Jr.: +1.

Orie Steele: +1.

Michael Prorock: +1.

Kristina Yasuda: +1.

Logan Porter: +1.

Kevin Dean: +1.

Shigeya Suzuki: +1.

Joe Andrieu: +1.

Brent Zundel: +1.

Marty Reed: +1.

Gabe Cohen: +1.

Michael Jones: +1.

sb: +1.

David Waite: +1.

Resolution #1: The workgroup will pull in the lds-jws2020 ccg work item into the vcwg and cut an ed for it.

4. Expectations for Data Integrity.

Brent Zundel: Moving on to data integrity..

Michael Prorock: https://www.w3.org/TR/vc-data-model/#data-integrity-proofs.

Manu Sporny: Sent an email to mailing list..
… Data integrity specification is a way of doing signatures on JSON-LD document, not specific to Linked Data..
… Base specification, meant to be paired with crypto suites, gives some general parameters around attaching digital proofs to document..
… Crypto suites document explains how to do it using various crypto suites..

Manu Sporny: https://w3c-ccg.github.io/data-integrity-spec/FCGS/2022-07-22/.

Manu Sporny: Spec itself is cut to a final CCG specification, with instructions to VC staff to put in permanent location..

Michael Prorock: +1.

Proposed resolution: We will use the CCG Data Integrity Spec as the starting point for Data Integrity in the VCWG. (Brent Zundel)

Ted Thibodeau Jr.: +1.

Manu Sporny: +1.

Brent Zundel: +1.

Michael Prorock: +1.

sb: +1.

Marty Reed: +1.

Kevin Dean: +1.

Orie Steele: +1.

Logan Porter: +1.

Joe Andrieu: +1.

Shigeya Suzuki: +1.

Michael Jones: +1.

Kristina Yasuda: +1.

Brent Zundel: To manu, do you want to run a proposal for first working draft?.

Manu Sporny: No, let’s get a couple editor drafts going..

Michael Prorock: Agreeing to serve as editor..

Kristina Yasuda: Supports mprorock as editor..

Resolution #2: We will use the CCG Data Integrity Spec as the starting point for Data Integrity in the VCWG.

Manu Sporny: Thinks that we may want to parallel-track one or two other specs, namely the crypto suites themselves, due to interplay..

Brent Zundel: Believe that we should run in parallel as much as we are able..

Gabe Cohen: +1.

Kevin Dean: +1.

5. Data Model FPWD and Issues.

Gabe Cohen: proposal to make the proposed proposal a real proposal.

Kristina Yasuda: Asking if should take 1.1 as is..

Brent Zundel: Take it as is to be first working draft..

Manu Sporny: Agrees in principle but it will take a while to get other documents in place..
… Believes we all agree with what’s in the document so far..
… Concerned that we will have to wait a bit for data integrity document..

Proposed resolution: We will publish Verifiable Credentials Data Model v1.1 as the FPWD for Verifiable Credentials Data Model v2.0, with plan to ~immediately execute today’s change resolutions. (Ted Thibodeau Jr.)

Michael Jones: Supports having first editor’s draft as copy of VC 1.1 with no changes. First thing we should do after that is remove stuff that is redundant with other specs..
… Doesn’t care if that’s the first or second working draft. Removal of redundancy should be first work before anything else..

Orie Steele: Get to having editors’ drafts as soon as possible. Don’t think it’s worth cutting the proof section out first..
… Publish versions only when we feel that they’re worthy of being published..

Manu Sporny: Reason for doing FPWD is to start the IPR process..

Michael Prorock: +1 manu.

Manu Sporny: Sooner that you start that clock the better..
… If any plan to claim IP, want to know sooner rather than later..

Kristina Yasuda: I would be fine too.

Proposed resolution: We will publish Verifiable Credentials Data Model v1.1 as the FPWD for Verifiable Credentials Data Model v2.0. (Brent Zundel)

Orie Steele: +1.

Michael Prorock: +1.

Michael Jones: -0.

Ted Thibodeau Jr.: +1.

sb: +1.

Kevin Dean: +1.

Brent Zundel: +1.

Manu Sporny: +1.

Gabe Cohen: +1.

Oliver Terbu: +1.

Kristina Yasuda: 0.

Marty Reed: +1.

Logan Porter: +1.

David Waite: 0.

Joe Andrieu: +1.

Shigeya Suzuki: +0.

Resolution #3: We will publish Verifiable Credentials Data Model v1.1 as the FPWD for Verifiable Credentials Data Model v2.0.

Brent Zundel: Anticipate having more work items. How do we best want to use time in this meeting versus others?.
… It’s possible that the bulk of the work will happen in other meetings. How do people feel about that?.

Manu Sporny: There are a couple things that have been stewing for a while. Need architectural discussions. How are crypto suites related to each other?.
… There are things we need to change, such as name and description of a VC in the first iteration..
… Talking about priorities for non-normative work items, might be good to go through charter, ask people where they feel their priorities lie..
… Also have a number of issues that have been backing up that chairs and editors can address..
… Some VC housekeeping things, need to discuss where they go on the roadmap..

Michael Jones: All of the special topic groups should report progress into the main call..

Brent Zundel: huge +1 on reporting in the main call.

Michael Jones: Main call becomes the coordination point..

Michael Prorock: +1 selfissued.

Orie Steele: +1 feels the main call should always be about the main data model spec..

Kristina Yasuda: thank you!.

Brent Zundel: Group will still cover topics of interest to group as a whole..

Manu Sporny: +1, great work kdeangs1 ! :).

6. Resolutions