<Brent> Resource Schedule: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nJb1_PNbT6bMEz0AuWA1HRj-w2LeujXMatvmajYS4is/edit#gid=148670560
Brent: We are hoping to get all the resources on the schedule and to make sure that all editors understand how to use this. The idea is to start focusing on specific resources to faciliate completion of the revisions.
The idea was to increase focus, support editors and drive the resources to final drafts and publication. Any comments, questions, does everyone understand how to use it?
Sharron: Not much new to report right now. Want to thank those that completed the survey and gave some feedback.
... Kris Anne asked about having the legal section moved. I am working on that. Had some technical difficulty with it. Will keep working on it.
... If anyone has real world stories about business case from their organization, that bring these point to life, please send them to me so that we can try and work them into the resource.
... I feel the more guideance and input you can provide will make this a more meaningful. Testamonials, case studies, statements, that show how when accessibility was implemented that it made a big impact.
...if you have an opportunity to ask your leadership or if you know, pass along to me information like this:
Sharron: Also, if anyone has stories or articles that we can point to, raise them as GitHub issues so that I am aware of them.
Shawn: If we know that we may not be able to get actual data or stories, I wonder if we should tweak the approach?
Shawn: I wonder if we can learn from what we did before. The proof was in the WCAG examples. What if we have a different approach? Acknowledge that we don't have real data and take another approach
Shadi: W3C has a process for asking for testimonials which we could ask for when we have a more stable draft.
Shadi: I fully support the idea of testimonials and stories that makes it more fresh, engaging and demonstrate how others have done it.
... returning to the data part and the scientific basis for accessibility, I had the opportunity to dig into disability studies and I gathered that it is on ongoing debate and there is some controversy, and it is complex. There may not always be a monetary business case, but there still is a reponsiblity as a public service. Depends so much on context and other factors.
<shawn> [ Would be interesting to get perspectives from people in situations where there is not strong legal motivation ]
Shadi: there are research methods that rely on emperical data and others that rely on logic. You say something like "the alt text allows search engine access and improved mobile experience" You build the case without the data, update wording, make it more modern but keep the logical methodology used before.
Brent: Any other comments or feedback?
Brent: The proposal is for changing the time to meet biweekly and allow more regular participation by Australia and other Pacific participants. One week we will meet as usual and other weeks meet at 6:30 pm ET.
... will meet the needs of the existing participants from Australia as well as allowing recruitment of people from other parts of the world.
... what do you all think?
Chris:Sounds reasonable to me. I'm fine with it.
Sharron:And it is not the only proposal. We could keep meeting how they are, and hold a separate meeting at a different time.
... opportunity to engage people in different timezones, and recruit more people in other areas of the world. and the Thur timeslot also helps people in West US.
KrisAnne: I love this idea, it is great becasue it gives folks the ability to participate that were not able to before. More voices are better. I have a conflict one Thursday amonth but otherwise it should be fine.
<Norah> +1 great idea
Nic: I do think it is a great idea to have alternative times for meetings. Seems we will have fewer regulars to count on every week. But overall a good choice and good on my end.
<Sylvie> Ok to share meeting times, but I will not come thursdays as it is midnight in Europe.
<lkee> +1 I agree that it allows more voices to participate
Brent: Yes we realize that we may lose the Europeans on the Thursdays and will try to maintain cohesion through minutes and W4TW and surveys.
Vicki:midnight... ouch ... but it is definitely positive to adjust to allow others to participate at a better time for them.
Robert: Yes, the alternating schedule is the best option, I like it rather than holding one special meeting for the Pacific
... if there are conflicts on an evening I don't anticipate it would be any more often than others, prefer that to Friday at 6:30 am. separate meetings might be more problematic.
Howard: It makes sense to me. Ultimately I prefer the mornings but Thursdays are do-able. Alternative meetings would not be as well attended in my opinion and so I think it makes sense.
<Vicki> +1 shadi
Shawn: Good minutes will help and the surveys and other ways to stay in touch and that we set expectations.
<Vicki> +1 sharron's scribing
Eric: It is half past midnight for me and that means I will miss meetings most of those times. Overall thought I think this is a great idea.
Brent: Thanks, seems most are in favor so we can move to a resolution.
<shawn> All in favor (don't want separate meetings)
<Sylvie> Me +1 to yatil, but I am not awake at midnight but I will read Sharron's great and clear minutes.
<Chris_> nope
RESOLUTION: EOWG will alternate its meeting schedule starting in January 2018. Meetings will be held Friday 8:30 am ET one week and Thursday 6:30 pm the following week.
<shawn> [ about the alternating meeting times, the other times each week will be available for Editorial teams to meet! ]
Shawn: The WebEx will be available on Thursday and Friday every other week for the editorial teams to meet and discuss issues which is often easier than working through GitHUb, survey, or email comments.
<shawn> UN International Day of Disabled Persons
Shawn: Shadi did an intro to accessibility video, used some of the Perspectives video. It is in sync with the International Day of Persons with Disability. Please watch the Twitter feed and promote the outreach.
Nic: As a person with disability, I have not seen any difference on that day. Knowbility is blogging on that day.
Howard: sorry - I've been out of the loop. Is the video available for viewing?
Shawn: We hope the video is broad enough (it is translated into more than 15 languages and growing) that it will be viewed and used beyond that Disabilty Day but that provided a good sync for promotion.
<vavroom_> Yay for language translation!
Shadi: The occasion and trigger for that day came from the Day but we decided to broaden the appeal and make it a general intro to web accessibility in collaboration with ISOC. Hope you will like and use it.
Brent: We have issued an approval survey on that resource that Norah has worked so hard on.
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35532/ApproveHPWDUW2017/
Brent: we will release this approval survey today and have it open until around the 11th. We need your approval and/or comments on that as soon as you are able. Any addiitonal business before we move to the final topic of working on the Older Resources?
Brent: This is the meeting we have worked with for Vicki to meet with her editorial team. Since she has not received the feedback she needed, we decided to extend this weekly meeting to do that editorial team meeting and get the review and comment she needs.
... the editorial team is required to stay and anyone else is invited to stay if you have interest.
Nic: I like the directions it is taking. Not much feedback only a suggestion to run the text through the Hemingway app to identify sentences that may be overly complex. Other than that, I think it is fantastic work, thanks!
<shawn> http://www.hemingwayapp.com/
<shawn> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-eo-archive/2017OctDec/0018.html
Vicki: I will try to use Hemingway and I appreciate the suggestion. I want to thank everyone for their comments and would like to go through them one by one.
<Vicki> https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Web_and_Older_Users
Vicki: first is the overview page. I shifted the opening sentence back to its original location and added the WAI-AGE dates
<vavroom_> @shadi I don't believe Hemingwayapp is in the style guide. But it's a great tool to help achieving the goals of the guide, in particular simple language. It won't re-write for you. But it indicates hard and very hard to read sentences.
Shawn: I think we can remove the WAI-AGE paragraph from the text as long as it remains in the footer.
Shadi: agree
Vicki: any other comments?
Shadi: have not had the chance to look at the updates but it seems to have been following the input we gave, looking good.
Vicki: I can use the Hemingway app and have a revised page by Monday.
<Vicki> https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/New_Overview_page
Vicki: now can look at the next page
... very little was done on this recently, updated a few references, etc Any thoughts about this page?
Shadi: Some of the content is promotion for the WAI-AGE project while it was ongoing. At this point, it may just be noise and can be removed.
<shadi> [[but keep acknowledgements in the footer]]
Shawn: Can take out WAI-AGE work but should leave the EO reference
<Vicki> https://www.w3.org/WAI/WAI-AGE/
Vivki: does this page stay as is?
Shadi: Yes it should stay as a documentation of what was done. Do not however need to directly link to it from the text, can rely on the link in the footer.
<Vicki> https://www.w3.org/WAI/posts/2009/older-users-online
Vicki: OK sounds good, otherwise there is only this article page that needed no further changes from previous input.
<Vicki> https://www.w3.org/WAI/older-users/developing
Vicki: as well as How WCAG applies, no changes
<Vicki> https://www.w3.org/WAI/presentations/ageing/
Vicki: so now, the presentation page may be too old, or needs too much revision. The presentation itself has many broken links, it is still a draft from 2010, recommend that we reconsider.
Shawn: There is an issue with this - all of our presentations need to be updated. We should decide if we even want to add this to the priority list to update with the other presentations or not a priority (like the literature review)
Norah: Two questions: Is there information in the presentation that is not available on these pages? If it is the same info in a different format, we could do wthout.
... Second, when was the last time it was used?
<shadi> +1 to norah
<rjolly> I wonder if we can pull the good info out of presentations and into the pages for now?
Vicki: There are statistics that are not in the pages.
<rjolly> +1 to Norah and Vicki's suggestions right now (getting info into pages from slides and updating info where needed)
Vicki: we could take some of the information on those slides and integrate them into the web pages
Norah: People are less likely to use it and have confidence in the info with broken links. So for now, we could pull that data into the web pages.
<shawn> +1 to considerable work to update links and stats
Shadi: How useful are these statistics? There is a lot of work to do that. The reasons I am interested in keeping the presentation is because of the later part, the outcomes of the literature review. We saw a very strong decline in vision and hearing with age. The outcomes as bullets on the slide is a nice presentation. Would be nice to use just these few slides somehow. After demographics - clear bulleted, points summarizing the outcomes.
Shadi: Could still use the middle slides, could that be a way forward, simply keep the relevant, current slides?
<Vicki> https://www.w3.org/WAI/presentations/ageing/waiage.html
Vicki: I could try that Shadi - will archive the presentations and pull out the summary and could add meaning to the resource itslef. Will look to do that by Monday
Norah: What if it is reframed with another name and point to the relevant information.
<shadi> +1
Shadi: yes could refer back to the archived version and say these are the items still relevant today.
Shadi: Vicki, do you feel comfortable editing the PPT file rather than the HTML presentation?
Shawn:I am concerned about scope creep
Brent: What if we do a minimum amount of work now, and document things for next iteration? Under crunch to get new site out. Update minimum now so no bad things.
Shadi:Can I take a pass, and then see if it's do-able now, or shelf for later.
Brent:Would be OKif we spend a reasoanable amount of time, but not too much of Vicki's time, Shadi's time and the time to review contributions
... we can document things for next iteration, and figure out (after redesign & Understanding docs) where these are in the priority for later
Shadi: hope only little effort to get through
Brent: will develop more robust data on EOWG resources will include section on future work. Vicki will make some changes; Shadi will get to his part later in the week
Shawn: thanks Vicki for the work, and Norah and all for input!