<yatil> https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Resource_Development_Life_Cycle
<yatil> trackbot, start meeting
<yatil> https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Resource_Development_Life_Cycle
<inserted> Scribe: shawn
https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Resource_Development_Life_Cycle
scribe: discussion of ideas of
combining early steps
... fewer requirements for all EOWG reviews
... encourage joint work with planning group early and
throughout, yet some optional
... dintinctions between check-ins - optional to comment -- and
review - outght to comment
Denis idea...
hadve existing quick tips
db idea bigger & better -- asked to finish existing
<rjolly> http://w3c.github.io/wai-quick-start/
managing - split into two: executive and project management
like 1. directing, 2. planning
maybe split up more specific
SLH: or maybe tagging?
yeah
Wheree do I go to get started?
start here - then lead to learning path - SC, tutorials
SLH: also some before that though ( e.g., basics of How PWDs use the Web)
path tpeople go down
for future -- designing should separatee visual, UX. developing could be type of teechnology even
scribe: and that might be expanded
people get dropped into places, e.g., from search engines
wee need to address that - so people know what else they ought to look at
scribe: this is part of a
learning path
... let them know, e.g., you might want to check out some more
basic info first
<Zakim> yatil, you wanted to say Learn/Basics and to say buckets/pages and to say WCAG techniques and to say glossary
quick tip at the top of relevant technique?
<yatil> [ I think much of this could be referenced in Learn/Basics. I’d like to have a way to filter the quick tips at some point. Having a way to link to complicated terms like screen reader somehow. Glossary-like. ]
<rjolly> https://w3c.github.io/wai-policies-prototype/
<inserted> scribe: rjolly
Liked heading structure
Terms used on page is clear
Liked delinieation of supporting policy vs standards
Liked addtional info such as exceptions/notes
Confusion about State/Province on submission form but then saw it was optional
<shawn> [ action needed: change "prototype" from places like https://w3c.github.io/wai-policies-prototype/policy/canada/ & https://w3c.github.io/wai-policies-prototype/policy/european-union/]
Wondered about whether or not someone can remove an additional entity from the multiple entries
Form validation may be needed on URL fields
Overview table was appreciated
Liked the filters and how they worked along with the sorting of the table
Are some terms missing in the definitions like "Procurement" and "Procurement recommendation"
UI suggestion: Switzerland multiple documents in different languages could be displayed in a more readable/parsable way
UI suggestion: Countries would nice to be filterable
BUGS - Mary Jo has opened issues in GitHub for a few items that her usability test subject found during the session
NEXT Usability test session notes start here ---
Verymuch appreciated having the terms at the top of the page
As the user started using the filters, they began to understand the policies more and more
<shawn> liked terms up front. like fitlers. both helped me know what's going to be in this resource
sorting table was immediately evident
overview table was described as quick and easy to understand what the content is
liked clicking through to the country page
clicking on different language links took her to the page in the language she expected
<shawn> ... saw that icon shows when link goes off this resource
internal vs external links were learned quickly
definition of "mandatory policy" may be needed
didn't notice the left-column navigation for the countries.
possibly due to how the current WAI site navigation
filters were confusing at first
having numbers and "add" in the filters was unclear in terms of how that would work
there was an expectation that filters would help narrow down results
liked the last updated date on each page
<Sharron> http://padthaiaustin.com/
Would like to have a way to select the policy to be updated and pre-populate with existing data to make it easier to update
TODO make an issue for this in GitHub --> for future enhancement
<shawn> prioritize "future enhancements" into at least 2 categories: "do next" and "do sometime later"
Usability test participant wondered why type of policy was a set of checkboxes
TODO: make issue for changing the type of policy to radio buttons
This participant also wanted to be able to remove an entity/document
TODO: make issue for removing extra fieldsets
Would like to have info to clarify what would happen when user submits form (e.g. not immediately published and will go through review)
<shawn> [ issue+ hanging indents in the submission form - like y'all did on the main page ]
TODO: add issue to remove word "prototype" from all pages
<yatil> Webex: https://mit.webex.com/meet/yatil
<Brent> Visual Design for Home page. Mock up. https://visa.invisionapp.com/share/YPAVCUZA9#/234693428_Home_Page
<inserted> scribe: Sharron
Judy: I have been thinking about
the requirements but have not yet documented the requirements.
Have some discussion questions on Evaluating and Advocating,
may need to ask for Brainstorming around Procurement
... then hope to have the survey for the Media Tutorial but
Geoff and I have some open issues yet to address.
<Judy> https://www.w3.org/WAI/gettingstarted/tips/
Judy: anyone here now who was not part of the development of QuickTips?
Robert: I was not.
<rjolly> http://w3c.github.io/wai-quick-start/
Judy: There were 3 of these completed and well received in the community. 3 others are drafted but not completed. I am trying to look through the drafts and identify issues. I have created discussion questions, some of them from a devil's advocate POV.
Robert: Should be mindful of keeping information in each section discrete from exisiting resources such as EasyChecks
<Judy> [jb: maybe we should differentiate the audiences for these "tips" resources vs other eval resources]
<Judy> [jb: build in metadata to tag these, define best paths]
Robert: Use Quick Tips as a pointer or Guide to the other resources, there is a place for Evaluating as a useful QT
Judy: What if one of the Tips is
to tell you the best tip for your role?
... a newbie to Easy Checks, a QA pro to the WCAG-EM
... for example
Robert: I like that idea and helping people ID their own role and where to look first
<Judy> [jb: think about tips that start iwth "if your role is x, then go to y"
<Judy> [jb: think about tips that start iwth "if your role is x, then go to y" -- or "if you want to do x, then go to y"]
<Judy> https://www.w3.org/WAI/eval/Overview
<Judy> [jb: do a more in-depth differentiation between "tips" and ^ "overview" and "intro" page(s)
<Judy> [s/differentiation/audience differentiation]
<Judy> https://www.w3.org/WAI/eval/Overview
Robert: The concern for duplicating, QT and Easy Checks do sound similar, but put in the context of the other QTs, it provides greater clarity.
<Judy> OK... thanks... next question from "discussion" section of Evaluation Tips: "The completed tutorials have engaging graphical examples under most of the individual tips, as well as "for more info". Are there particular examples that EOWG advises highlighting?"
Howard: I actually prefer the placement of the addiitonal resources within the QT rather than the current Overview page which is a link of list with no context.
Judy: Have looked at the otehr
QTpages, great consistency in format. Concise, examples and
more info. The examples in the other pages include coding,
graphics, etc and that seems more problematice here.
... are there any ideas or places to find examples for
this?
Brent: What types of examples do we envision?
Judy: Yes, that is my question
Eric: At the moment it is very high level and here to bring it to a more granular level by linking to the Easy Check.
<Judy> [jb: make sure to show examples of actual evaluations, for the examples for each "Tip" topic; but diversify the SC topics]
Judy: Third bullet says to process all the open GitHub issues. I have done that. and wanted to add the work that is underway on the in depth conformance methodology and where it is going.
Eric: There is a more inofmraiton link and I also think it is valuabel to have a tip on auto testing and it could easily be referenced there.
Robert: and could invite further participation.
<Judy> [jb: (eric) add a tip on automatic testing -- and that could provide that context you want for the ACT work that is underway; (robert) exceptional context, ok to mention]
Brent: Only note about "add example to each tip" I think most will be easy to meet that expectation but this one may be more difficult.
Eric: Yes because this is an entire process
<Judy> [jb: (eric) examples could be eval OR process, if needed; but (brent) you can take a get-of-jail-free card on one or two tips if needed]
<Judy> https://w3c.github.io/wai-quick-start/advocating.html
Judy: reminder that EO's work on Advocating is here and I have studied it.
Judy: Advocate seems less appropriate than promote
Eric: interesting that we had that same conversation yesterday
<Judy> [jb: convinced to stick with advocating]
Eric: promote was seen to be like selling, advertising. Alternative seemed to be evangelize and then there was religious connotation.
Judy: Am curious about who does EO think is the primary audience?
Brent: The advocacy audience is the broadest on of all. Everyonee with interest in accessibility would want to be a better advocate
<Judy> [jb: for audiences for advocating for: (brent) for this resource, could be the widest resource we have for any eowg resource (judy: yay!); (robert) beyond developers and other defined roles, really for all)]
Robert: You have interest in accessibility but not a defined role, this could be useful but as well, it will be useful to those who *are* in a role.
Judy: Any sensitivity to this
term?
... I ask because as an advocate, the first thing that occurs
to me is "identify barriers" whether specific or
systematic.
... may also changethe order
<Judy> [jb: confirmed on going for a broad range of topics and audiences]
<Judy> [judy steps off call for 5 min]
Judy: wanted to ask you to think
about Tips for Procurement. Since denis and Robert are doing
the Managing Tips wanted to think my way through the process.
Must confirm audience and scope, ensure not too much overlap
with Managing and Planning Guide.
... a previous resource about commisioning accessible resources
was coceived many years ago.
... and would not try to go in any way to overlap with British
process document?
<Judy> [jb: (eric) add link to british resource]
Eric: Can you put the link to that in the wiki at some point? Probably good to avoid. Potentially very short and focused tips page. What is here looks good to me.
<Judy> [jb: (eric) think about a really short really focused page; (robert) no problem to have a focused thing on this (mentions two other managerial sub-audiences, sorry, missed, please add)]
Robert: A dedicated section for
procurement is great, very closely related to Managing and
Directing resource that Denis and I are working on. See them as
complementary.
... project managers vs business owners
Eric: Can we be more specific then about Tips for project management?
Judy: OK got it and going on
then, can you consider the items within Tips (again, very
drafty) on the wiki, I envision there will be a tip pointing to
ATAG2
... what are your thoughts about what is here?
Eric: Looks excellent, and if the experience is a guide, you will find that as they develop, you will get more detail as they are written and reviewed, this seems a good approach.
<Judy> [jb: (eric) these draft may be a good orientation, actually! maybe could add a few more as well]
Brent: I do no have a great deal of experience in this area but as we start working, any gaps will likely emerge.
Robert: I agree and I know that as we develop content other questions may come up, but no concerns with what is here.
Howard: Agree
<Judy> [jb: (sharron, brent, robert, howard +1 on trying this a a good starting approach)
<Judy> https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/EOWG_F2F_May_2017#Saturday_20_May_.28Day_2.29
<Judy> http://wai.accessibility.rocks/aria-concepts/build/aria-concepts/
Judy: Here is the landing page
for this concepts page for the Dev's Intro to ARIA
... this is not yet ready for review and with that in mind are
looking for guidance in development direction, etc. High
level.
<Judy> http://wai.accessibility.rocks/aria-concepts/build/aria-concepts/problem/
Judy: Wanted to get some discussion about the tone, more personal,etc...what do you think?
Eric: I began with a similar voice on the other tutorials, more conversational. I was encouraged not to do that at the time but that encouragement has gotten much less strong recently. Have not read these in detail, so will need to check someaht but not much concern about different styles.
Brent: As an intro, I think the conversational style is good.
Robert: Reading jsut a few paragraphs, the tone is quite relatable.
Judy: it is a very engaging
style, kind of catchy.
... But in contrast, the Mobile Intro is much more formal, more
similar to tutorials and Media guide
<Zakim> yatil, you wanted to say “Problem” and to say example
<Judy> [jb: maybe switch "problem" to "challenge"]
Eric: First of all, "Problem" is
a difficult word, negative connotations, could use Challenge or
something less negative. Second is that I am not really
convinced this is our best example.
... you can do a lot with normal radio buttons and CSS. I would
be more confident in an example of one that actually requires
ARIA to work. Not one where ARIA is just one way to do it but
one that only works or works the best with ARIA
<Judy> [jb: possibly seek an absolutely incontestably use case for using aria, even more than radio buttons]
Judy: I know this is an ongoing concern and may be that it is useful becasue the radio button example is rather simple and also a bit ambiguous but perhaps culd be accompnaied by more complex examples in discussion.
s/ radio buttons are useful. radio buttons are useful
Eric: Maybe a decision
tree?
... and language in the intro that emphasizes the example was
chosen for simplicity not because most compelling.
Brent: I was curious about structure, it is now in tutorial shell, and since it has such a common structure, my concern is whether there is in place the plan for a new structure or do we plan to stick with this format?
<Judy> [jb: talk with matt about keeping the example of radio button, but adding a short page of other un-expanded exmples, plus a decision tree]
Judy: I wanted to be able to focus on content and not put additional work into format. I know there is concern and wanting it to be distinquised. Let's try to figure out one or two format differentiaors.
Brent: Good idea will focus on content.
Judy: can we brainstorm on this a
bit first? One idea is something along the line of sidebar call
outs.
... maybe some other ideas?
Eric: When we have the new design things will all look much more similar in any case, so we can afford to not really worry about it but just keep in the back of our mids.
Judy: That OK wiht you Brent?
Brent: Sure and will work with designers for the presentation in new site.
Judy: will go through comments at the first of the week, may have a few questions, then a review draft and this one is far closer to done.
Howard: What are the best resources to help faculty to teach about accessibility and universal design. Have begun a repositry with web pages, sylabi, lesson plans, oterh curricula
Sharron: How old is this project?
Howard: Ran from 2012 - 2014, and
has been refunded from 2016-2018
... What is best thing to help instructors? To develop new
assignments, use other existng course ware? a version that
tries to use as much of the WAI resources.
<Zakim> Brent, you wanted to talk about the structure
Sharron: I thought that latter was the intent.
Eric: So waht is the project discription?
Howard: To integrate universal design into university curriculum to graduate more students with knowledge of accessibility from universities. Designed to be used by any university that wants to adopt it.
Eric: Still not clear about the deliverable from EOWG?
Howard: Open to definition.
Brent: My suggestion is to provide the content of the curriculum, not just point to resources. Is it meant to be used within another track of study, integrated into computer science, human factors, etc.
Howard: It could be an entire course or could be a few modules to fit within a certain area of study. Could be an entire couorse.
Eric: Could develop as an entire
course and modularize for various fields of study. What is the
role of EO? Would it publish on WAI?
... Would EO be your brainstorming source or would EO people be
really involved? May not have time to do that.
Howard: Would like a chance to
get EO feedback in any case, not sure about anything beyond
that.
... as a reveiw source?
Brent: Do you have expectations of EO working on it? any funding on it?
Howard: Not for EO, no.
Eric: Shadi has been thinking about curriculum forever so we should bring him into the conversation. The next step is an outline including deliverables, roles, and timing. I think it sounds like a great project.
Howard: OK, sounds good. On my site I can create a repository to bring resources into there and EO participants may be able to review the items on the repository.
Brent: Just as important as the curriculum and lessons, you must have good directions for the professors to use it.
Howard: INlcude activities and excercises.
Eric: In terms of new content, a deliverable may be how to integrate and use content lifted from WAI resources. If a gap is found and we want to add to what is there, it will be useful to WAI as well.
Howard: Thank you, good feedback.
Would be useful to use my ebook as well - get feedack.
... Universal design for digital media, focused on the
web.
... Developing robust learning modules
Eric: Why not bring this project
into the Teach Access and/or start a community group?
... and I will connect you and Shadi.
Howard: Will return to the group
with next steps.
... Teach Access is doing a faculty Bootcamp at AHG
Eric: Thanks, this meeting was a very effective and productive one, let's do some of this again.
trackbot, end meeting
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