<najib> Hi Behnam

<behnam> hi najib

<najib> https://www.w3.org/International/groups/arabic-layout/track/actions/open

<najib> https://www.w3.org/International/groups/arabic-layout/track/actions/89

<scribe> ScribeNick: Shervin

<behnam> Here's the draft: http://196.200.140.8/Tests/Vertical/verticalArabic.html

Behnam: Looking at the draft for vertical Arabic which Najib produced.

<behnam> https://github.com/w3c/alreq/issues/102

Behnam: The draft is on an external link. If the link is stable we can add it to the issue so people can take a look at it.

<najib> I'll put the text in Github wiki, and then get the link in the issue.

najib: The draft is some use-cases with pictures for a start...
... In section 1.1 of the draft, I tried to separate the use-cases.
... there is also a section stub for implementation notes. For now it's just a short text.

r12a: Is this draft intended to be part of AlReq? or separate doc?

najib: Yes. Section 4.3, I think.

r12a: Some suggestion; no need to talk about CSS as it's tech-specific and doesn't belong in ALReq...
... Secondly, for ALReq we need to be short and to the point. Third, my impression was that we're not talking about Chinese and Mongolian...
... Fourth, margin-writing the way it's represented is not going to be useful for any implementation.
... Finally, I completed my action item to write to Uyghur experts regarding vertical text. Haven't heard a response yet.

Najib: There are other examples of margin writing that Khaled provided.
... Margin-writing is obviously for handwritten text. The point was that the direction can be both top-to-bottom and bottom-to-top.

r12a: There are content which are more important than vertical text to the document.
... My recommendation is to have a short text section on this topic.

behnam: Matters discussed here touched different parts of document layout; some can be special, historical use-cases...
... this can be left out of the main document ...
... On the other hand, the book titles, I don't think that it's anything special like any other language; you have a narrow box and put the text in there...
... On a lower priority, we can get into the topic of vertical text (upward or downward).

r12a: I'd welcome some information on upward text if it comes along.
... The other interest is the behaviour of vertical text in table cells.

behnam: Table issue is a good example and we have a section to get to it, I believe. We can address the topic there.
... It's going to be a big challenge to put all the vertical-related info in one section.

r12a: There is a question at hand is the correctness of CSS implementation;
... If it's good to keep it and if there are issues to fix.
... That's a relevant question for ALReq.

najib: I agree with Behnam that there are other places in the doc to talk about vertical text; e.g. section abou tables, etc.
... There is also the issue of mixing RTL and LTR scripts in vertical table cells.
... We may have something to discuss here.

r12a: At this stage, we don't have to worry too long where to put the text.
... One paragraph and two pictures might be a good start. If necessary we can expand to more.

Shervin: Few points: 1. It's a special cases section, we need to keep it short; 2. margin-writing per se is not of interest for us in this topic. It should be seen as a historical precedence of Arabic written vertically; 3. I believe that the theater sign with stand-alone letters and vertical positioning doesn't belong here because it's a copy of a western tradition of marquee signs.

behnam: What's the issue or question for CSS vertical text?

r12a: Some of the features are at risk for implementation...
... There is also a question that originally came from this group regarding text running upwards or downwards.

behnam: The drafting needs to focus on collecting evidence.

r12a: The conclusion could be as simple as "Arabic runs upwards or downwards in these situations, etc."
... This could be written very briefly and put in the document.

behnam: Two main topic; vertical upright (mixed with CJK) and upward/downward.

r12a: Yes. We should avoid technology terms discussing these.

najib: Let's continue the discussion in the issue to see if we agree where to put this.

Shervin: Could we just write what we already know in few lines for now?

najib: We could have one or two paragraphs to summarize what we know. Then we can always revisit.

+1

<behnam> close ACTION-89

<trackbot> Closed ACTION-89.

behnam: ACTION-88 is about Uyghur....

<behnam> close ACTION-88

<trackbot> Closed ACTION-88.

r12a: Could be closed. No response yet. I will forward if I get any.

<behnam> https://github.com/w3c/alreq/projects/1

<behnam> https://github.com/w3c/alreq/issues/49

<behnam> present?

Shervin: Recommend to close Issue 49; there is a merge by Mostafa with the fixes and fixes reported to CLDR is due for CLDR 31 release...
... This means that we get these changes next time that we update our character tables.

behnam: Issue number 9 and issue 101...

<behnam> https://github.com/w3c/alreq/issues/9

najib: Issue 9 could be closed.

<behnam> https://github.com/w3c/alreq/issues/101

<behnam> https://github.com/w3c/alreq/issues/97

behnam: issue 101 could remain open until the text is merge into the doc.
... Should we keep Unicode citations in a different section?

<behnam> https://w3c.github.io/alreq/#h_joining

r12a: I usually avoid the usual W3C of citation. I usually prefer to link directly from the document. It's true that with Unicode spec there are updates.
... but there are links for latest version.
... I would personally like to keep the references in the text.

<behnam> http://www.unicode.org/versions/latest/

r12a: In future we can move those in a separate section.
... I'd say to leave it as is and just use the "latest" version URL.
... A link to have a link to Unicode from a reference and citation section.

<r12a> Unicode Standard Annex #9, Unicode Bidirectional Algorithm [UBA]

<behnam> Created https://github.com/w3c/alreq/issues/103 to create a new appendix for external references

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