15:01:05 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #alreq
15:01:05 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/03/21-alreq-irc
15:04:00 <behnam> RRSAgent, please draft the minutes
15:04:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/03/21-alreq-minutes.html behnam
15:04:04 <behnam> RRSAgent, please set logs world-visible
15:04:25 <behnam> Meeting: ALReq Weekly Meeting, 21 March 2017
15:04:44 <behnam> agenda+ Status review of action items
15:04:53 <behnam> agenda+ Review of GitHub issues and pull requests
15:53:05 <najib> najib has joined #alreq
15:59:56 <najib> Hi Behnam
16:00:56 <behnam> hi najib
16:01:51 <behnam> Chair: behnam
16:01:54 <behnam> present+
16:02:01 <najib> present+
16:03:40 <r12a> r12a has joined #alreq
16:07:00 <behnam> agenda?
16:10:07 <najib> https://www.w3.org/International/groups/arabic-layout/track/actions/open
16:10:27 <najib> https://www.w3.org/International/groups/arabic-layout/track/actions/89
16:10:39 <behnam> present+ r12a
16:11:05 <behnam> take up agendum 1
16:13:43 <Shervin> Shervin has joined #alreq
16:14:49 <Shervin> ScribeNick: Shervin
16:15:18 <behnam> Here's the draft: http://196.200.140.8/Tests/Vertical/verticalArabic.html
16:15:58 <Shervin> Behnam: Looking at the draft for vertical Arabic which Najib produced.
16:16:42 <behnam> https://github.com/w3c/alreq/issues/102
16:18:20 <Shervin> Behnam: The draft is on an external link. If the link is stable we can add it to the issue so people can take a look at it.
16:19:35 <najib> I'll put the text in Github wiki, and then get the link in the issue.
16:22:12 <Shervin> najib: The draft is some use-cases with pictures for a start...
16:23:18 <Shervin> ...In section 1.1 of the draft, I tried to separate the use-cases.
16:23:19 <najib_> najib_ has joined #alreq
16:23:49 <r12a> q+
16:23:53 <Shervin> ...there is also a section stub for implementation notes. For now it's just a short text.
16:24:42 <behnam> ack r12a
16:24:44 <Shervin> r12a: Is this draft intended to be part of AlReq? or separate doc?
16:25:03 <Shervin> najib: Yes. Section 4.3, I think.
16:25:33 <Shervin> r12a: Some suggestion; no need to talk about CSS as it's tech-specific and doesn't belong in ALReq...
16:26:17 <Shervin> ...Secondly, for ALReq we need to be short and to the point. Third, my impression was that we're not talking about Chinese and Mongolian...
16:26:54 <Shervin> ...Fourth, margin-writing the way it's represented is not going to be useful for any implementation.
16:27:41 <behnam> q+
16:27:47 <Shervin> ... Finally, I completed my action item to write to Uyghur experts regarding vertical text. Haven't heard a response yet.
16:28:06 <Shervin> Najib: There are other examples of margin writing that Khaled provided.
16:28:48 <Shervin> ... Margin-writing is obviously for handwritten text. The point was that the direction can be both top-to-bottom and bottom-to-top.
16:29:18 <Shervin> r12a: There are content which are more important than vertical text to the document.
16:29:42 <Shervin> ... My recommendation is to have a short text section on this topic.
16:30:27 <Shervin> behnam: Matters discussed here touched different parts of document layout; some can be special, historical use-cases...
16:30:42 <Shervin> ... this can be left out of the main document ...
16:31:19 <Shervin> ... On the other hand, the book titles, I don't think that it's anything special like any other language; you have a narrow box and put the text in there...
16:31:32 <r12a> q+
16:31:46 <behnam> ack behnam
16:31:52 <Shervin> ... On a lower priority, we can get into the topic of vertical text (upward or downward).
16:32:00 <behnam> ack r12a
16:32:10 <Shervin> r12a: I'd welcome some information on upward text if it comes along.
16:32:38 <Shervin> ... The other interest is the behaviour of vertical text in table cells.
16:33:20 <Shervin> behnam: Table issue is a good example and we have a section to get to it, I believe. We can address the topic there.
16:33:40 <Shervin> ... It's going to be a big challenge to put all the vertical-related info in one section.
16:34:40 <Shervin> r12a: There is a question at hand is the correctness of CSS implementation;
16:34:50 <Shervin> ... If it's good to keep it and if there are issues to fix.
16:35:01 <Shervin> ... That's a relevant question for ALReq.
16:35:07 <Shervin> q+
16:35:39 <Shervin> najib: I agree with Behnam that there are other places in the doc to talk about vertical text; e.g. section abou tables, etc.
16:36:23 <Shervin> ... There is also the issue of mixing RTL and LTR scripts in vertical table cells.
16:36:32 <Shervin> ... We may have something to discuss here.
16:37:17 <r12a> q+
16:37:27 <behnam> ack Shervin
16:40:41 <behnam> ack r12a
16:41:17 <Shervin> r12a: At this stage, we don't have to worry too long where to put the text.
16:42:01 <Shervin> r12a: One paragraph and two pictures might be a good start. If necessary we can expand to more.
16:44:14 <Shervin> Shervin: Few points: 1. It's a special cases section, we need to keep it short; 2. margin-writing per se is not of interest for us in this topic. It should be seen as a historical precedence of Arabic written vertically; 3. I believe that the theater sign with stand-alone letters and vertical positioning doesn't belong here because it's a copy of a western tradition of marquee signs.
16:44:33 <Shervin> behnam: What's the issue or question for CSS vertical text?
16:44:54 <Shervin> r12a: Some of the features are at risk for implementation...
16:45:21 <Shervin> ... There is also a question that originally came from this group regarding text running upwards or downwards.
16:45:40 <Shervin> behnam: The drafting needs to focus on collecting evidence.
16:46:21 <Shervin> r12a: The conclusion could be as simple as "Arabic runs upwards or downwards in these situations, etc."
16:46:40 <Shervin> ... This could be written very briefly and put in the document.
16:48:05 <Shervin> behnam: Two main topic; vertical upright (mixed with CJK) and upward/downward.
16:48:20 <Shervin> r12a: Yes. We should avoid technology terms discussing these.
16:49:13 <Shervin> najib: Let's continue the discussion in the issue to see if we agree where to put this.
16:49:39 <Shervin> q+
16:49:54 <behnam> ack Shervin
16:53:21 <Shervin> Shervin: Could we just write what we already know in few lines for now?
16:54:27 <Shervin> q+
16:57:54 <Shervin> najib: We could have one or two paragraphs to summarize what we know. Then we can always revisit.
16:58:00 <Shervin> +1
16:59:03 <behnam> close ACTION-89
16:59:03 <trackbot> Closed ACTION-89.
16:59:31 <Shervin> behnam: ACTION-88 is about Uyghur....
16:59:35 <behnam> close ACTION-88
16:59:35 <trackbot> Closed ACTION-88.
16:59:45 <Shervin> r12a: Could be closed. No response yet. I will forward if I get any.
16:59:50 <behnam> Zakim, what action items?
16:59:50 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, behnam.
16:59:58 <behnam> RRSAgent, what action items?
16:59:58 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
17:01:25 <behnam> next agendum
17:01:29 <behnam> q?
17:01:32 <behnam> ack Shervin
17:01:34 <behnam> next agendum
17:01:44 <behnam> https://github.com/w3c/alreq/projects/1
17:01:59 <behnam> https://github.com/w3c/alreq/issues/49
17:03:51 <behnam> present?
17:03:57 <behnam> Zakim, who is here?
17:03:57 <Zakim> Present: behnam, najib, r12a
17:03:59 <Zakim> On IRC I see najib, Shervin, r12a, RRSAgent, Zakim, behnam, trackbot
17:04:05 <Shervin> present+
17:04:16 <Shervin> Zakim, who is here?
17:04:16 <Zakim> Present: behnam, najib, r12a, Shervin
17:04:18 <Zakim> On IRC I see najib, Shervin, r12a, RRSAgent, Zakim, behnam, trackbot
17:04:22 <Shervin> q+
17:06:30 <Shervin> Shervin: Recommend to close Issue 49; there is a merge by Mostafa with the fixes and fixes reported to CLDR is due for CLDR 31 release...
17:06:46 <Shervin> ... This means that we get these changes next time that we update our character tables.
17:06:58 <Shervin> q-
17:08:27 <Shervin> behnam: Issue number 9 and issue 101...
17:08:31 <behnam> https://github.com/w3c/alreq/issues/9
17:09:06 <Shervin> najib: Issue 9 could be closed.
17:09:32 <behnam> https://github.com/w3c/alreq/issues/101
17:11:18 <behnam> https://github.com/w3c/alreq/issues/97
17:11:43 <Shervin> behnam: issue 101 could remain open until the text is merge into the doc.
17:11:53 <Shervin> q+
17:12:15 <Shervin> behnam: Should we keep Unicode citations in a different section?
17:12:27 <behnam> https://w3c.github.io/alreq/#h_joining
17:13:07 <Shervin> r12a: I usually avoid the usual W3C of citation. I usually prefer to link directly from the document. It's true that with Unicode spec there are updates.
17:13:14 <Shervin> ...but there are links for latest version.
17:14:23 <Shervin> r12a: I would personally like to keep the references in the text.
17:14:33 <behnam> http://www.unicode.org/versions/latest/
17:14:45 <Shervin> ...In future we can move those in a separate section.
17:15:12 <Shervin> ...I'd say to leave it as is and just use the "latest" version URL.
17:15:46 <Shervin> ...A link to have a link to Unicode from a reference and citation section.
17:17:32 <behnam> ack Shervin
17:31:45 <r12a> q+
17:33:29 <behnam> ack r12a
17:33:38 <r12a> Unicode Standard Annex #9, Unicode Bidirectional Algorithm [UBA]
17:39:12 <najib> najib has left #alreq
17:39:16 <r12a> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:39:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/03/21-alreq-minutes.html r12a
17:39:21 <r12a> rrsagent, make log public
17:39:24 <behnam> Created https://github.com/w3c/alreq/issues/103 to create a new appendix for external references
17:39:35 <r12a> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:39:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/03/21-alreq-minutes.html r12a
17:39:35 <behnam> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:39:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/03/21-alreq-minutes.html behnam
17:48:21 <behnam> regret+ mostafa
17:48:30 <behnam> rrsagent, publish minutes
17:48:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/03/21-alreq-minutes.html behnam
17:48:43 <behnam> regrets+ mostafa
17:48:52 <behnam> s/regret+ mostafa//
17:48:55 <behnam> rrsagent, publish minutes
17:48:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/03/21-alreq-minutes.html behnam