02 Mar 2016


See also: IRC log




<scribe> scribe: Rich

Agenda additions?

fred: no

Open Actions

<shepazu> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/33280/pointer-events-2016/

doug: The timeline for the pointer events working group charter came to a close. If any AC reps are interested this is a useful thing for accessibility

<chaals> action-1602?

<trackbot> action-1602 -- Charles McCathie Nevile to Find some stem graphics to consider as use cases -- due 2015-06-26 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/svg-a11y-tf/track/actions/1602

Topic Action 1602


<trackbot> Action-1602 -- Charles McCathie Nevile to Find some stem graphics to consider as use cases -- due 2015-06-26 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/svg-a11y-tf/track/actions/1602

Charles: I do want to keep that.
... the use cases I have been working on are simple at the moment

<chaals> action-1602 due in 3 months

<trackbot> Set action-1602 Find some stem graphics to consider as use cases due date to 2016-06-02.

Charles: Want the date moved out 3 months


<trackbot> action-1603 -- Charles McCathie Nevile to Work with jasonw, markkuh and the universe to discover how people do interaction… -- due 2015-07-17 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/svg-a11y-tf/track/actions/1603

Charles: I am close this as not going to get done as action

RESOLUTION: Close action-1603


<trackbot> action-1753 -- Jason White to Look at svg in gamepadapi, push api, etc due 20160113 -- due 2016-01-15 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/svg-a11y-tf/track/actions/1753

fred: Jason and I went through this. I have a later topic on this


<trackbot> action-2001 -- Amelia Bellamy-Royds to Draft a new definition of including elements that requires title/description to be non-empty. -- due 2016-01-22 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/svg-a11y-tf/track/actions/2001

amelia: there are 3 items in ther that fall under the new language in the svg-aam spec.

<fesch> action-2002

<trackbot> action-2002 -- Amelia Bellamy-Royds to Draft new language for svg-aam. -- due 2016-01-22 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/svg-a11y-tf/track/actions/2002

<fesch> action-2004

<trackbot> action-2004 -- Amelia Bellamy-Royds to Look into github issue #137 -- due 2016-01-22 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/svg-a11y-tf/track/actions/2004

amelia: I have not started on these yet but I am going to modify the SVG definitions which we can use in both specs.

<AmeliaBR> http://ameliabr.github.io/svgwg/build/publish/render.html#RenderingTree

amelia: basically this adds up to creating standard definitions for elements that are rendered or not rendered
... an important thing on how this cascades into the accessibility mappings. invisible and rendered are not the same
... display:none is not rendered. desc. is not rendered. These are important as the svg pointer events can be active for on interactive hit regions even though something is not visibly rendered
... At the same time this covers all the elements that should NEVER be rendered as they have no rendering on the screen. … no mater what you do to these they will not map into the accessibility tree
... my hope is that by having clear definitions here we can clarify these in the accessibility mappings

fred: it looks like we don’t have any feedback for either of these.

amelia: I started drafting a section on focus management.

<AmeliaBR> http://ameliabr.github.io/svgwg/build/publish/interact.html#Focus

amelia: Rich had originally mapped the HTML spec. into the SVG spec.
... the group wanted one code base and resolved to link to the HTML spec. and now we need to identify the parts of the HTML spec. that are different.
... have done that by defining focusable and non-focusable content … including via tabindex
... then we need to add all the new text for keyboard accessibility.

<AmeliaBR> https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/pull/55

amelia: I will be covering this with the svg working group tomorrow

fred: what is an svg element that has zoom and pan controls.

amelia: zoom and pan are not currently implemented in any browsers
... the old Adobe SVG viewer was the only one that ever implemented this.
... the wording have in there states that “if the control exists” ...

fred: joanie might ask if there is a zoom and pan control for that element

amelia: there is a property that turns them on but it has not been implemented yet

fred: when to include and when to not

Rich: If this has not been implemented it will ultimately go as there needs to be 2 implementations

amelia: at this point it is in the SVG2 spec.

Doug: SVG2 spec. to go to CR in April

Rich: concerned about syncing ARIA 1.1 with html 5.1 and svg2
... the svg2 spec. points to the html 5.1 spec. but this is not stable yet. In previous versions we had based ours on html 5
... the html5.1 spec is entirely different from html5
... some controls are absent - like details/summary and dialog

Charles: the goal is to get html 5.1 done by mid- year without those pieces that are not implemented

amelia: there are modal dialog boxes and you have disable a lot of tabindex stuff that is outside the dialog (it becomes inert)
... user controls - there is a controls attribute.
... I could write the phrase with a controls attribute turned on and off <audio> and <video>

charles: rewrite it so that it is focusable if the user agent puts the controls in there

amelia: the author can say create pause controls but it does not mean the browser will make them for other ones

<chaals> [You could probably do this via the controls IDL attribute, but I'd need to check that]

amelia: for a testable statement … it is a 2-step. The author adds the controls addribute and then there would be a controls on the audio/ video

fred: what about your foreign object that creates a scrollable region?

amelia: it is not something that is really easy to query

fred: my concern is that if we make it difficult to test. But since they can put tabindex on anything.

amelia: I would rather have more things focusable than things are under user control
... your concern is the wording is too general

fred: you will make conditions that are not testable

charles: for the scrolling case the browser will know if a region is scrollable
... if you use specific kinds of things you can force that.
... it is a condition that there is a scroll bar

amelia: I think in all of these it is easy to create a test to create the situations unlike zoom and pan that are not implemented
... as far as getting a reasonable test suite it should be possible
... I have this separate paragraph for links
... is the old Opera you could not get to a link without a tabindex
... Presto

Rich: all browsers put links in the tab sequence

charles: Presto did not have a full tab cycle with anchors. It did more like forms mode in jaws

amelia: it would be my preference as an author to not get anchors be in the tab sequence by default

: http://ameliabr.github.io/svgwg/build/publish/interact.html#Focus

amelia: I will see what the svg working group says about this. it would be good to have the focusable attribute from svg tiny 1.2
... you could have anything with a title/tooltip it is an optional friendly thing to provide a keyboard way to reveal the tooltip
... the text is based on what is in the html spec.
... non-rendered text does not receive focus
... I pulled text out from HTML regarding activation behavior.
... if you have something focusable by tabindex you can make it clickable via script
... I will bring this up at the SVG working group tomorrow
... please try to review beforehand
... i do have cleanup for the accessibility mappings


<trackbot> Action-2003 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Investigate how role=none interacts with other aria- attributes, in other aria specs. -- due 2016-03-01 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/svg-a11y-tf/track/actions/2003


<trackbot> Action-2008 -- Doug Schepers to define authoring practices related to links -- due 2016-02-02 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/svg-a11y-tf/track/actions/2008

fred: this is authoring practices relative to links

Rich: I did speak with David Bolter at Mozilla to focus on Mozilla, waiting for them to get back

fred: What do we want to do with authoring practices

amelia: I would like one at some point

fred: is it ok if we just track ideas in the mean time on a wiki?

amelia: that is a start
... do you have a work in progress?

charles: I have a pile of pieces

<scribe> ACTION: charles find out where the authoring pieces are [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/03/02-svg-a11y-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2016 - Find out where the authoring pieces are [on Charles McCathie Nevile - due 2016-03-09].

charles: there is a scratch space here:

<chaals> scratch space for authoring guidance

<chaals> close action-2016

<trackbot> Closed action-2016.

fred: Does that work to put whatever you need in there?

RESOLUTION: use that GitHub repo scratch space for accessible practices

Rich: people in the education publishing industry will be meeting with me next week on svg a11y

Problems with SVG in W3C docs

fred: I was talking with Jason last week on game pad to discuss what should be done
... the examples are not accessible
... we would need to redraw the entire image to make it accessible
... what do people feel we should do with these?

amelia: I don’t think we want to do as a representation of good practices to have to have to rip apart things and rebuild them

chaals: I diametrically disagree
... if that means that we need to rip things apart and start again then so be it. If we had the guidelines to start we would not have a problem.
... if we start badly down the wrong way you are not going ot have a good time
... while we many not be able to rip down every diagram from the spec., we should point out what needs to be done and do a couple of them. they would be able to then do things more efficiently

amelia: do a certain point that makes sense. so, need to do proper grouping.
... what I am looking at came right out of inkscape

chaals: strip it down to its component parts and restructure
... we need to write down exactly what we did to redo things

fred: do we want to try to fix every w3c document that comes through?

chaals: we can’t ignore them and say they be fine.
... there is a set of diagrams that are all related. … take one of the ones I did and turn it into the other diagrams.
... there is no magic

fred: in reviews we will drag people into this group and try to do something for them
... every document is written by a differnt group or task force
... if we go through 160 specs. we will have 400 people that will know how to do it right

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: charles find out where the authoring pieces are [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/03/02-svg-a11y-minutes.html#action01]

Summary of Resolutions

  1. Close action-1603
  2. use that GitHub repo scratch space for accessible practices
[End of minutes]

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