See also: IRC log
<janina> OK, Tzviya! Thanks.
<janina> Thanks, Shane!
<scribe> scribe: fesch
<MichaelC> agenda order 1, 2, 4, 5, 3
js: brainstorming on media query
on dPub and accessibility, getting pushback
... no progress on mine :{
action-2003
<trackbot> action-2003 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Review presentation api https://www.w3.org/tr/presentation-api/ -- due 2016-02-17 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2003
<MichaelC> action-2003 due 1 week
<trackbot> Set action-2003 Review presentation api https://www.w3.org/tr/presentation-api/ due date to 2016-02-24.
action-1750
<trackbot> action-1750 -- Cynthia Shelly to Review ui events -- due 2016-02-06 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/1750
<MichaelC> action-1750 due 1 week
<trackbot> Set action-1750 Review ui events due date to 2016-02-24.
action-1630
<trackbot> action-1630 -- Shane McCarron to Investigate possibilities of irc bot integration with bugzilla and github -- due 2015-05-20 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/1630
js: Shane will you be ready for HTML a11y call?
sm: yes will send out link...
js: what is our response to the section in CSS transitions?
rs: this has no user agent requirement...
jf: that won't work
js: do we want something with MUST rather than SHOULD?
<cyns> +1 to michael
mc: need clearer suggestions, need a better description of how that might be done, once that is written then we can thing about MUSTS
ts: without a sample it is meaningless
mc: might need an example so we can see how that it is done
js: I can send a response where we want to see something more specific, it is too much hand waving
mc: second paragraph is good,
user style sheets have been killed off
... user style sheets have been removed from some user agents
so would need an extension
rs: if they don't want to do that, they could add a media query to be able to stop it..
cs: any of those would meet WCAG
mc: I don't mind media queries, but that requires authors to do something, I'd prefer a global user agent setting
rs: can do it via the user agent or have an author do it (with media query) which will meet WCAG
cs: extensions could also work
<Zakim> tzviya, you wanted to discuss larger issue of user preferences
mc: if they user agent can do it, the xxx working group is leaning that way, so providing a user agent feature is better
ts: wrt media queries, agnostic method might be better, media queries might be scope creep, not sure we have a direction to do this
js: we may be split across groups, it is up to APA to coordinate
rs: if the css wg doesn't want to make these requirements then we need a way to do this, media queries or exposed via preferences will let us do this
<Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to say IndieUI Context, and short-term and long-term plan and to say media queries vs structured preferences
rs: need to discuss with cSS wg
mc: ARIA working group was
supposed to take up Indie UI stuff, we thought some could be
done with media queries - some not a good fit - worried about
media queries be the answer to everything
... we need to give them feedback on this spec - but need to
have a long term plan and our feedback needs to work with long
term plan
<Zakim> cyns, you wanted to say that we consider suggesting to CSS transitions that they add examples of how to acheive that, including the ones we've suggested: browser, media queries,
js: we need to think about the long term, not ask to much from this spec
cs: ask to make section less hand wavy, plus a reference to WCAG, so there is something specific
mc: spec authors may object to ref to WCAG because all specs must meet WCAG
cs: was thinking about deep links.... if it gets pushback not that important
js: should I write a general note that the section is not specific, may need actions to generate examples
mc: should tell them this would be better with examples, can we have to a date to provide them
cs: not sure they need to be code examples...
js: OK, lets see how they direct
us...
... I like the way they approached us...
... pleased to hear an editor include an accessibility
section
action Janina to respond
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2011 - Respond [on Janina Sajka - due 2016-02-24].
<MichaelC> action-2011 = Janina to draft examples of how the hand-wavey stuff in CSS Transitions accessibility statement could be solidified
js: longdesc, describedat ...
trying to move to detailed summary, use a textual description,
remaining requirement is when the user wants to be advised
about their existence
... thought we could do it with media queries
... discussion wondered off into personalization... follow on
from Indie UI... short term need in DPub.
... the editor of Media Queries doesn't think the CSS WG would
accept it, what direction do we want to go?
ts: requirements DPub put
together since media queries is not an option, we have two tags
- then we inform the user that there is an extended
descirption
... perhaps all we can do is provide the information to AT
js: the down side is we miss users not using AT
ts: : we may be able to support
it, but support will be limited
... what does it do that describedat doesn't do?
js: nothing, just harder to use
ts: not sure what we are accomplishing
js: just avoids an almost certain objection on describedat
ts: adding aria-details and
aria-linktype
... seems like a convoluted way to accomplish
aria-describedat
... only provides a link out
rs: details can be accessible to everybody
js: aria is only being exposed to AT
cs: does anyone implement summary or details?
<tzviya> http://caniuse.com/#search=summary
cs: not in the plan for the next version
rs: chrome and safari are almost
done
... a lot of activity on that
cs: in the plan, but not the next version
js: don't want to go down a path
that is uncomfortable for edge
... we don't have a way to expose it to non AT users...
mc: in what
js: summary details
<cyns> and, in general, for Edge feature work https://dev.windows.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/platform/status/ (you'll like the 2 at the top)
mc: figure with details...
... was marked in yes in matrix.... oh not available by non AT
users
... adding a row for that, don't have info about other
columns....
js: working out columns...
mc: a lot of things fail the usable by non AT users...
rs: problem is whether you see it or not.
cs: summary details would be easy
to do with polyfill
... seems like a ebook reader should be able to us it
anyway
rs: are they doing polyfill in a book?
cs: do it in the ereader
... will probably do it eventually
ts: want it usable for AT, but not a big ugly thing that gets in the way
cs: seems easy to do in a ereader via a polyfill
rs: we heard that last fall
cs: in the long term it will probably be fine
ts: what do we put in the doc that will be finalized in Sep - Oct
rs: what are ereaders using as core browsers on windows
ts: Readium is webkit based
rs: that is already there
... chromw based browsers on windows are not the best for
accessibility
... better of using something based on chrome...
... much better...
ts: yes chrome
... we are going down a very specific path - talking about
ebook readers... what about from the ARIA perspective?
rs: I have corrected that, the
spec is in good shape.... not heard negative comments
... did anyone ask CSS directly?
js: yes the editor for media
queries said it would be creep and not popular in the CSS WG,
not the direction they are moving
... also trying to bring in non AT users in the DPUB
stuff...
ts: do we need a DPub meeting on this?
<MichaelC> Content Security Policy Level 3
<MichaelC> ACTION: Janina to review CSP 3 https://www.w3.org/TR/CSP3/ [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/02/17-apa-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2012 - Review csp 3 https://www.w3.org/tr/csp3/ [on Janina Sajka - due 2016-02-24].
<MichaelC> WebRTC 1.0: Real-time Communication Between Browsers
<MichaelC> ACTION: Janina to review WebRTC 1.0 https://www.w3.org/TR/webrtc/ [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/02/17-apa-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2013 - Review webrtc 1.0 https://www.w3.org/tr/webrtc/ [on Janina Sajka - due 2016-02-24].
<MichaelC> Data on the Web Best Practices: Dataset Usage Vocabulary
mc: doesn't need a review
<MichaelC> Shapes Constraint Language (SHACL)
<MichaelC> (Fred reviewed, nothing of interest)
<MichaelC> Efficient XML Interchange (EXI) for JSON
<MichaelC> Micropub
<MichaelC> ACTION: fesch to review Micropub https://www.w3.org/TR/micropub/ [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/02/17-apa-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2014 - Review micropub https://www.w3.org/tr/micropub/ [on Fred Esch - due 2016-02-24].
<MichaelC> Wake Lock API
<MichaelC> Navigation Timing Level 2
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.144 of Date: 2015/11/17 08:39:34 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/radium/Readium/ Succeeded: s/webkit/chromw/ Found Scribe: fesch Inferring ScribeNick: fesch Present: janina Tzviya_Siegman MichielBijl fesch MichaelC Joanmarie_Diggs Cynthia ShaneM Rich_Schwerdtfeger Shane Regrets: LéonieWatson Found Date: 17 Feb 2016 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2016/02/17-apa-minutes.html People with action items: fesch janina[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]