IRC log of apa on 2016-02-17

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:53:10 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #apa
16:53:10 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/02/17-apa-irc
16:53:12 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
16:53:12 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #apa
16:53:14 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be
16:53:14 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
16:53:15 [trackbot]
Meeting: Accessible Platform Architectures Working Group Teleconference
16:53:15 [trackbot]
Date: 17 February 2016
16:53:30 [janina]
agenda?
16:53:35 [janina]
agenda+ preview agenda with items from two minutes
16:53:35 [janina]
agenda+ Actions Review (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/products/8
16:53:35 [janina]
agenda+ new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html
16:53:35 [janina]
agenda+ CSS Transitions A11y Statement https://drafts.csswg.org/css-transitions/#accessibility
16:53:38 [janina]
agenda+ Dpub Media Querry Impass [See Long Text Mechanism Resolution below]
16:53:41 [janina]
agenda+ Other Business
16:53:43 [janina]
agenda+ next and future meetings http://www.w3.org/Guide/1998/08/teleconference-calendar#s_273
16:53:46 [janina]
agenda+ be done
16:56:25 [tzviya]
tzviya has joined #APA
16:56:56 [janina]
OK, Tzviya! Thanks.
16:57:19 [janina]
present+ janina
16:58:31 [janina]
zakim, next item
16:58:31 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "preview agenda with items from two minutes" taken up [from janina]
17:01:32 [tzviya]
present+ Tzviya_Siegman
17:02:06 [fesch]
fesch has joined #apa
17:02:08 [MichielBijl]
present+ MichielBijl
17:03:10 [janina]
Thanks, Shane!
17:03:22 [fesch]
present+ fesch
17:04:17 [MichaelC]
present+ MichaelC
17:04:38 [fesch]
scribe: fesch
17:05:30 [MichaelC]
agenda?
17:05:53 [MichaelC]
agenda order 1, 2, 4, 5, 3
17:05:57 [MichaelC]
agenda?
17:06:14 [cyns]
cyns has joined #apa
17:07:05 [joanie]
present+ Joanmarie_Diggs
17:07:19 [fesch]
chair: Janina
17:07:19 [MichaelC]
present+ Cynthia
17:07:31 [fesch]
zakim, item 1
17:07:31 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'item 1', fesch
17:07:36 [ShaneM]
present+ ShaneM
17:07:54 [fesch]
zakim, next item
17:07:54 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Actions Review (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/products/8" taken up [from janina]
17:08:46 [fesch]
js: brainstorming on media query on dPub and accessibility, getting pushback
17:08:48 [richardschwerdtfeger]
richardschwerdtfeger has joined #apa
17:09:43 [fesch]
js: no progress on mine :{
17:09:58 [fesch]
action-2003
17:09:58 [trackbot]
action-2003 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Review presentation api https://www.w3.org/tr/presentation-api/ -- due 2016-02-17 -- OPEN
17:09:58 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2003
17:10:11 [MichaelC]
action-2003 due 1 week
17:10:11 [trackbot]
Set action-2003 Review presentation api https://www.w3.org/tr/presentation-api/ due date to 2016-02-24.
17:10:43 [fesch]
action-1750
17:10:43 [trackbot]
action-1750 -- Cynthia Shelly to Review ui events -- due 2016-02-06 -- OPEN
17:10:43 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/1750
17:10:54 [MichaelC]
action-1750 due 1 week
17:10:54 [trackbot]
Set action-1750 Review ui events due date to 2016-02-24.
17:11:09 [richardschwerdtfeger]
present+ Rich_Schwerdtfeger
17:11:17 [fesch]
action-1630
17:11:17 [trackbot]
action-1630 -- Shane McCarron to Investigate possibilities of irc bot integration with bugzilla and github -- due 2015-05-20 -- OPEN
17:11:18 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/1630
17:11:22 [MichielBijl]
regrets+ LéonieWatson
17:11:41 [fesch]
zakim, next item
17:11:41 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "CSS Transitions A11y Statement https://drafts.csswg.org/css-transitions/#accessibility" taken up [from janina]
17:11:53 [MichaelC]
present+ Shane
17:12:12 [fesch]
js: Shane will you be ready for HTML a11y call?
17:12:27 [fesch]
sm: yes will send out link...
17:14:18 [fesch]
js: what is our response to the section in CSS transitions?
17:14:36 [fesch]
rs: this has no user agent requirement...
17:14:43 [fesch]
jf: that won't work
17:15:06 [fesch]
js: do we want something with MUST rather than SHOULD?
17:15:36 [cyns]
+1 to michael
17:15:49 [fesch]
mc: need clearer suggestions, need a better description of how that might be done, once that is written then we can thing about MUSTS
17:16:08 [fesch]
ts: without a sample it is meaningless
17:16:29 [fesch]
mc: might need an example so we can see how that it is done
17:17:01 [fesch]
js: I can send a response where we want to see something more specific, it is too much hand waving
17:17:32 [fesch]
mc: second paragraph is good, user style sheets have been killed off
17:17:47 [richardschwerdtfeger]
q+
17:17:50 [janina]
q?
17:18:01 [janina]
ack r
17:18:09 [fesch]
mc: user style sheets have been removed from some user agents so would need an extension
17:18:51 [fesch]
rs: if they don't want to do that, they could add a media query to be able to stop it..
17:19:03 [fesch]
cs: any of those would meet WCAG
17:19:37 [fesch]
mc: I don't mind media queries, but that requires authors to do something, I'd prefer a global user agent setting
17:20:07 [janina]
q?
17:20:10 [fesch]
rs: can do it via the user agent or have an author do it (with media query) which will meet WCAG
17:20:26 [fesch]
cs: extensions could also work
17:20:45 [tzviya]
q+ to discuss larger issue of user preferences
17:20:58 [janina]
ack t
17:20:58 [Zakim]
tzviya, you wanted to discuss larger issue of user preferences
17:21:02 [fesch]
mc: if they user agent can do it, the xxx working group is leaning that way, so providing a user agent feature is better
17:21:47 [richardschwerdtfeger]
q?
17:21:49 [richardschwerdtfeger]
q+
17:22:18 [fesch]
ts: wrt media queries, agnostic method might be better, media queries might be scope creep, not sure we have a direction to do this
17:22:25 [MichaelC]
q+ to say IndieUI Context, and short-term and long-term plan
17:22:35 [janina]
ack r
17:22:42 [fesch]
js: we may be split across groups, it is up to APA to coordinate
17:23:19 [cyns]
q+ to say that we consider suggesting to CSS transitions that they add examples of how to acheive that, including the ones we've suggested: browser, media queries, extensions or site
17:23:37 [MichaelC]
q+ to say media queries vs structured preferences
17:23:43 [fesch]
rs: if the css wg doesn't want to make these requirements then we need a way to do this, media queries or exposed via preferences will let us do this
17:24:02 [MichaelC]
ack me
17:24:02 [Zakim]
MichaelC, you wanted to say IndieUI Context, and short-term and long-term plan and to say media queries vs structured preferences
17:24:08 [janina]
ack m
17:24:09 [fesch]
rs: need to discuss with cSS wg
17:25:24 [fesch]
mc: ARIA working group was supposed to take up Indie UI stuff, we thought some could be done with media queries - some not a good fit - worried about media queries be the answer to everything
17:26:00 [fesch]
mc: we need to give them feedback on this spec - but need to have a long term plan and our feedback needs to work with long term plan
17:26:14 [janina]
ack c
17:26:14 [Zakim]
cyns, you wanted to say that we consider suggesting to CSS transitions that they add examples of how to acheive that, including the ones we've suggested: browser, media queries,
17:26:18 [Zakim]
... extensions or site
17:26:19 [fesch]
js: we need to think about the long term, not ask to much from this spec
17:26:51 [fesch]
cs: ask to make section less hand wavy, plus a reference to WCAG, so there is something specific
17:27:25 [fesch]
mc: spec authors may object to ref to WCAG because all specs must meet WCAG
17:27:45 [janina]
q?
17:27:53 [fesch]
cs: was thinking about deep links.... if it gets pushback not that important
17:28:34 [fesch]
js: should I write a general note that the section is not specific, may need actions to generate examples
17:28:58 [fesch]
mc: should tell them this would be better with examples, can we have to a date to provide them
17:29:22 [fesch]
cs: not sure they need to be code examples...
17:29:51 [fesch]
js: OK, lets see how they direct us...
17:30:08 [fesch]
js: I like the way they approached us...
17:30:41 [fesch]
js: pleased to hear an editor include an accessibility section
17:31:03 [fesch]
action Janina to respond
17:31:03 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2011 - Respond [on Janina Sajka - due 2016-02-24].
17:31:30 [fesch]
zakim, next item
17:31:30 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "Dpub Media Querry Impass" taken up [from See Long Text Mechanism Resolution below]
17:31:40 [MichaelC]
action-2011 = Janina to draft examples of how the hand-wavey stuff in CSS Transitions accessibility statement could be solidified
17:32:31 [MichaelC]
rrsagent, make minutes
17:32:31 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/02/17-apa-minutes.html MichaelC
17:32:48 [fesch]
js: longdesc, describedat ... trying to move to detailed summary, use a textual description, remaining requirement is when the user wants to be advised about their existence
17:33:06 [fesch]
js: thought we could do it with media queries
17:33:45 [fesch]
js: discussion wondered off into personalization... follow on from Indie UI... short term need in DPub.
17:34:23 [fesch]
js: the editor of Media Queries doesn't think the CSS WG would accept it, what direction do we want to go?
17:35:16 [janina]
q?
17:35:30 [fesch]
ts: requirements DPub put together since media queries is not an option, we have two tags - then we inform the user that there is an extended descirption
17:35:53 [fesch]
ts: perhaps all we can do is provide the information to AT
17:36:12 [fesch]
js: the down side is we miss users not using AT
17:36:56 [fesch]
ts:: we may be able to support it, but support will be limited
17:37:08 [fesch]
ts: what does it do that describedat doesn't do?
17:37:18 [fesch]
js: nothing, just harder to use
17:37:28 [fesch]
ts: not sure what we are accomplishing
17:37:50 [fesch]
js: just avoids an almost certain objection on describedat
17:38:09 [fesch]
ts: adding aria-details and aria-linktype
17:38:24 [fesch]
ts: seems like a convoluted way to accomplish aria-describedat
17:38:24 [joanie]
q+ to say linktype is a seperate thing
17:38:42 [fesch]
ts: only provides a link out
17:38:58 [fesch]
rs: details can be accessible to everybody
17:39:16 [fesch]
js: aria is only being exposed to AT
17:39:29 [fesch]
cs: does anyone implement summary or details?
17:39:38 [tzviya]
http://caniuse.com/#search=summary
17:39:41 [fesch]
cs: not in the plan for the next version
17:39:45 [joanie]
q-
17:39:58 [fesch]
rs: chrome and safari are almost done
17:40:07 [fesch]
rs: a lot of activity on that
17:40:32 [fesch]
cs: in the plan, but not the next version
17:41:07 [fesch]
js: don't want to go down a path that is uncomfortable for edge
17:41:44 [fesch]
js: we don't have a way to expose it to non AT users...
17:41:52 [fesch]
mc: in what
17:41:59 [fesch]
js: summary details
17:42:01 [cyns]
https://dev.windows.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/platform/status/detailssummary?filter=f3f0000bf&search=detail
17:42:49 [cyns]
and, in general, for Edge feature work https://dev.windows.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/platform/status/ (you'll like the 2 at the top)
17:42:55 [fesch]
mc: figure with details...
17:43:26 [fesch]
mc: was marked in yes in matrix.... oh not available by non AT users
17:43:47 [fesch]
mc: adding a row for that, don't have info about other columns....
17:43:56 [fesch]
js: working out columns...
17:44:29 [fesch]
mc: a lot of things fail the usable by non AT users...
17:44:45 [fesch]
rs: problem is whether you see it or not.
17:44:57 [fesch]
cs: summary details would be easy to do with polyfill
17:45:17 [fesch]
cs: seems like a ebook reader should be able to us it anyway
17:45:33 [fesch]
rs: are they doing polyfill in a book?
17:45:43 [fesch]
cs: do it in the ereader
17:46:02 [fesch]
cs: will probably do it eventually
17:46:32 [fesch]
ts: want it usable for AT, but not a big ugly thing that gets in the way
17:46:48 [fesch]
cs: seems easy to do in a ereader via a polyfill
17:47:03 [fesch]
rs: we heard that last fall
17:47:21 [fesch]
cs: in the long term it will probably be fine
17:47:44 [fesch]
ts: what do we put in the doc that will be finalized in Sep - Oct
17:48:05 [fesch]
rs: what are ereaders using as core browsers on windows
17:48:21 [fesch]
ts: radium is webkit based
17:48:34 [richardschwerdtfeger]
s/radium/Readium/
17:48:35 [fesch]
rs: that is already there
17:49:13 [fesch]
rs: webkit based browsers on windows are not the best for accessibility
17:49:28 [fesch]
rs: better of using something based on chrome...
17:49:36 [janina]
q?
17:49:37 [fesch]
rs: much better...
17:49:41 [tzviya]
s/webkit/chromw
17:49:49 [fesch]
ts: yes chrome
17:50:38 [fesch]
ts: we are going down a very specific path - talking about ebook readers... what about from the ARIA perspective?
17:51:07 [fesch]
rs: I have corrected that, the spec is in good shape.... not heard negative comments
17:51:57 [fesch]
rs: did anyone ask CSS directly?
17:52:41 [fesch]
js: yes the editor for media queries said it would be creep and not popular in the CSS WG, not the direction they are moving
17:53:27 [fesch]
js: also trying to bring in non AT users in the DPUB stuff...
17:53:50 [fesch]
ts: do we need a DPub meeting on this?
17:54:15 [fesch]
zakim, next item
17:54:15 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html" taken up [from janina]
17:54:44 [MichaelC]
-> https://www.w3.org/TR/CSP3/ Content Security Policy Level 3
17:54:53 [MichaelC]
action: Janina to review CSP 3 https://www.w3.org/TR/CSP3/
17:54:54 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2012 - Review csp 3 https://www.w3.org/tr/csp3/ [on Janina Sajka - due 2016-02-24].
17:55:13 [MichaelC]
-> https://www.w3.org/TR/webrtc/ WebRTC 1.0: Real-time Communication Between Browsers
17:55:21 [MichaelC]
action: Janina to review WebRTC 1.0 https://www.w3.org/TR/webrtc/
17:55:21 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2013 - Review webrtc 1.0 https://www.w3.org/tr/webrtc/ [on Janina Sajka - due 2016-02-24].
17:55:45 [MichaelC]
-> https://www.w3.org/TR/vocab-duv/ Data on the Web Best Practices: Dataset Usage Vocabulary
17:56:12 [fesch]
mc: doesn't need a review
17:56:39 [MichaelC]
-> https://www.w3.org/TR/shacl/ Shapes Constraint Language (SHACL)
17:56:48 [MichaelC]
(Fred reviewed, nothing of interest)
17:57:02 [MichaelC]
-> https://www.w3.org/TR/exi-for-json/ Efficient XML Interchange (EXI) for JSON
17:57:38 [MichaelC]
-> https://www.w3.org/TR/micropub/ Micropub
17:58:27 [MichaelC]
action: fesch to review Micropub https://www.w3.org/TR/micropub/
17:58:27 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2014 - Review micropub https://www.w3.org/tr/micropub/ [on Fred Esch - due 2016-02-24].
17:58:50 [MichaelC]
-> https://www.w3.org/TR/wake-lock/ Wake Lock API
17:59:22 [cyns]
cyns has joined #apa
17:59:58 [MichaelC]
-> https://www.w3.org/TR/navigation-timing-2/ Navigation Timing Level 2
18:01:53 [fesch]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:01:53 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/02/17-apa-minutes.html fesch
18:03:04 [tzviya]
tzviya has joined #APA
18:08:28 [jamesn]
jamesn has joined #apa
18:22:44 [fesch]
fesch has left #apa
18:57:11 [tzviya]
tzviya has joined #APA