Accessible Platform Architectures Working Group Teleconference

17 Feb 2016

See also: IRC log


janina, Tzviya_Siegman, MichielBijl, fesch, MichaelC, Joanmarie_Diggs, Cynthia, ShaneM, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Shane


<janina> OK, Tzviya! Thanks.

preview agenda with items from two minutes

<janina> Thanks, Shane!

<scribe> scribe: fesch

<MichaelC> agenda order 1, 2, 4, 5, 3

Actions Review (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/products/8

js: brainstorming on media query on dPub and accessibility, getting pushback
... no progress on mine :{


<trackbot> action-2003 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Review presentation api https://www.w3.org/tr/presentation-api/ -- due 2016-02-17 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2003

<MichaelC> action-2003 due 1 week

<trackbot> Set action-2003 Review presentation api https://www.w3.org/tr/presentation-api/ due date to 2016-02-24.


<trackbot> action-1750 -- Cynthia Shelly to Review ui events -- due 2016-02-06 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/1750

<MichaelC> action-1750 due 1 week

<trackbot> Set action-1750 Review ui events due date to 2016-02-24.


<trackbot> action-1630 -- Shane McCarron to Investigate possibilities of irc bot integration with bugzilla and github -- due 2015-05-20 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/1630

CSS Transitions A11y Statement https://drafts.csswg.org/css-transitions/#accessibility

js: Shane will you be ready for HTML a11y call?

sm: yes will send out link...

js: what is our response to the section in CSS transitions?

rs: this has no user agent requirement...

jf: that won't work

js: do we want something with MUST rather than SHOULD?

<cyns> +1 to michael

mc: need clearer suggestions, need a better description of how that might be done, once that is written then we can thing about MUSTS

ts: without a sample it is meaningless

mc: might need an example so we can see how that it is done

js: I can send a response where we want to see something more specific, it is too much hand waving

mc: second paragraph is good, user style sheets have been killed off
... user style sheets have been removed from some user agents so would need an extension

rs: if they don't want to do that, they could add a media query to be able to stop it..

cs: any of those would meet WCAG

mc: I don't mind media queries, but that requires authors to do something, I'd prefer a global user agent setting

rs: can do it via the user agent or have an author do it (with media query) which will meet WCAG

cs: extensions could also work

<Zakim> tzviya, you wanted to discuss larger issue of user preferences

mc: if they user agent can do it, the xxx working group is leaning that way, so providing a user agent feature is better

ts: wrt media queries, agnostic method might be better, media queries might be scope creep, not sure we have a direction to do this

js: we may be split across groups, it is up to APA to coordinate

rs: if the css wg doesn't want to make these requirements then we need a way to do this, media queries or exposed via preferences will let us do this

<Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to say IndieUI Context, and short-term and long-term plan and to say media queries vs structured preferences

rs: need to discuss with cSS wg

mc: ARIA working group was supposed to take up Indie UI stuff, we thought some could be done with media queries - some not a good fit - worried about media queries be the answer to everything
... we need to give them feedback on this spec - but need to have a long term plan and our feedback needs to work with long term plan

<Zakim> cyns, you wanted to say that we consider suggesting to CSS transitions that they add examples of how to acheive that, including the ones we've suggested: browser, media queries,

js: we need to think about the long term, not ask to much from this spec

cs: ask to make section less hand wavy, plus a reference to WCAG, so there is something specific

mc: spec authors may object to ref to WCAG because all specs must meet WCAG

cs: was thinking about deep links.... if it gets pushback not that important

js: should I write a general note that the section is not specific, may need actions to generate examples

mc: should tell them this would be better with examples, can we have to a date to provide them

cs: not sure they need to be code examples...

js: OK, lets see how they direct us...
... I like the way they approached us...
... pleased to hear an editor include an accessibility section

action Janina to respond

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2011 - Respond [on Janina Sajka - due 2016-02-24].

Dpub Media Querry Impass

<MichaelC> action-2011 = Janina to draft examples of how the hand-wavey stuff in CSS Transitions accessibility statement could be solidified

js: longdesc, describedat ... trying to move to detailed summary, use a textual description, remaining requirement is when the user wants to be advised about their existence
... thought we could do it with media queries
... discussion wondered off into personalization... follow on from Indie UI... short term need in DPub.
... the editor of Media Queries doesn't think the CSS WG would accept it, what direction do we want to go?

ts: requirements DPub put together since media queries is not an option, we have two tags - then we inform the user that there is an extended descirption
... perhaps all we can do is provide the information to AT

js: the down side is we miss users not using AT

ts: : we may be able to support it, but support will be limited
... what does it do that describedat doesn't do?

js: nothing, just harder to use

ts: not sure what we are accomplishing

js: just avoids an almost certain objection on describedat

ts: adding aria-details and aria-linktype
... seems like a convoluted way to accomplish aria-describedat
... only provides a link out

rs: details can be accessible to everybody

js: aria is only being exposed to AT

cs: does anyone implement summary or details?

<tzviya> http://caniuse.com/#search=summary

cs: not in the plan for the next version

rs: chrome and safari are almost done
... a lot of activity on that

cs: in the plan, but not the next version

js: don't want to go down a path that is uncomfortable for edge
... we don't have a way to expose it to non AT users...

mc: in what

js: summary details

<cyns> https://dev.windows.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/platform/status/detailssummary?filter=f3f0000bf&search=detail

<cyns> and, in general, for Edge feature work https://dev.windows.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/platform/status/ (you'll like the 2 at the top)

mc: figure with details...
... was marked in yes in matrix.... oh not available by non AT users
... adding a row for that, don't have info about other columns....

js: working out columns...

mc: a lot of things fail the usable by non AT users...

rs: problem is whether you see it or not.

cs: summary details would be easy to do with polyfill
... seems like a ebook reader should be able to us it anyway

rs: are they doing polyfill in a book?

cs: do it in the ereader
... will probably do it eventually

ts: want it usable for AT, but not a big ugly thing that gets in the way

cs: seems easy to do in a ereader via a polyfill

rs: we heard that last fall

cs: in the long term it will probably be fine

ts: what do we put in the doc that will be finalized in Sep - Oct

rs: what are ereaders using as core browsers on windows

ts: Readium is webkit based

rs: that is already there
... chromw based browsers on windows are not the best for accessibility
... better of using something based on chrome...
... much better...

ts: yes chrome
... we are going down a very specific path - talking about ebook readers... what about from the ARIA perspective?

rs: I have corrected that, the spec is in good shape.... not heard negative comments
... did anyone ask CSS directly?

js: yes the editor for media queries said it would be creep and not popular in the CSS WG, not the direction they are moving
... also trying to bring in non AT users in the DPUB stuff...

ts: do we need a DPub meeting on this?

new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html

<MichaelC> Content Security Policy Level 3

<MichaelC> ACTION: Janina to review CSP 3 https://www.w3.org/TR/CSP3/ [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/02/17-apa-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2012 - Review csp 3 https://www.w3.org/tr/csp3/ [on Janina Sajka - due 2016-02-24].

<MichaelC> WebRTC 1.0: Real-time Communication Between Browsers

<MichaelC> ACTION: Janina to review WebRTC 1.0 https://www.w3.org/TR/webrtc/ [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/02/17-apa-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2013 - Review webrtc 1.0 https://www.w3.org/tr/webrtc/ [on Janina Sajka - due 2016-02-24].

<MichaelC> Data on the Web Best Practices: Dataset Usage Vocabulary

mc: doesn't need a review

<MichaelC> Shapes Constraint Language (SHACL)

<MichaelC> (Fred reviewed, nothing of interest)

<MichaelC> Efficient XML Interchange (EXI) for JSON

<MichaelC> Micropub

<MichaelC> ACTION: fesch to review Micropub https://www.w3.org/TR/micropub/ [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/02/17-apa-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2014 - Review micropub https://www.w3.org/tr/micropub/ [on Fred Esch - due 2016-02-24].

<MichaelC> Wake Lock API

<MichaelC> Navigation Timing Level 2

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: fesch to review Micropub https://www.w3.org/TR/micropub/ [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/02/17-apa-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: Janina to review CSP 3 https://www.w3.org/TR/CSP3/ [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/02/17-apa-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: Janina to review WebRTC 1.0 https://www.w3.org/TR/webrtc/ [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/02/17-apa-minutes.html#action02]

Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.144 (CVS log)
$Date: 2016/02/17 18:01:59 $

Scribe.perl diagnostic output

[Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.144  of Date: 2015/11/17 08:39:34  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/radium/Readium/
Succeeded: s/webkit/chromw/
Found Scribe: fesch
Inferring ScribeNick: fesch
Present: janina Tzviya_Siegman MichielBijl fesch MichaelC Joanmarie_Diggs Cynthia ShaneM Rich_Schwerdtfeger Shane
Regrets: LĂ©onieWatson
Found Date: 17 Feb 2016
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2016/02/17-apa-minutes.html
People with action items: fesch janina

[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]