<richardschwerdtfeger> meeting: W3C ARIA Working Group

<richardschwerdtfeger> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Feb/0194.html

<scribe> scribe: fesch

ARIA working group decision policy

rs: done, drag and drop ends tonight

Action-2006

action-2006

<trackbot> action-2006 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Draft proposal for new aria-linktype attribute for group review -- due 2016-01-27 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2006

jd: one question- do we want to allow a free text type, leaning toward no, want enumeration... reason - AT doesn't know what it is... DPUB can extend enumeration
... is there a use case for a free text type?

rs: wouldn't AT users go crazy if they didn't know what the link type was?

jd: I think they wanted a role description - which would be free text
... then we will go with an enumerated type and DPub can extend it?

cs; you could have a custom type

markus: we need enumerations, no use case for free text...
... by extending the enumeration - you mean that we could extend it in the DPub module, that is a requirement...

rs: we thought we would give it some values to start...

markus: would you start with the DPub answers?

jd: gives an example of why we might want to have some that are not DPub specific, thinking more of screen readers and web apps... for the core spec
... then stuff like glossary could be defined in DPub Module

markus: would aria-linktype have hyphenated values?
... my thought is we would need it here (avoid name collisions)

rs: we would have to come up with a prefix for values....

markus: we could continue using doc- and the core ones naked (no prefix)
... if you need input/suggestions on types for the core type - we would be happy to suggest core types

jd: I would leave out glossary out of core...
... very relative to DPub... comments, footnotes... would be in core, may have a branch to look at tomorrow

cs: annotations -how does that sync with the annotations proposal we had a few years ago?

rs: that was for ARIA 2, would have to look at it...

jd: I have thought about types.... annotations I have thought about and they are parallel and not dependent on one another (link type)

<mgylling> there’s also https://www.w3.org/annotation/

cs: I thought the proposal had link types in it as well...

<richardschwerdtfeger> ACTION: Cynthia look at annotation overlap with aria-linktype [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/02/11-aria-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2017 - Look at annotation overlap with aria-linktype [on Cynthia Shelly - due 2016-02-18].

clown: is this proposal for ARIA 1.1 - (yes) so we need mapping -

cs: I would probably use UIA annotations,

clown: AXAPI....

rs: will have to circle back...

ARIA describedat

<richardschwerdtfeger> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/issue1009/aria/aria.html#aria-details

rs: what do you call this thing since there is a relationship

<mgylling> https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Publisher_requirements_for_extended_descriptions

rs: we have describedby and folks are used to using it...
... note aria-describedat is removed in this branch... reads ...
... one of the requirements for DPub was it may need to pull in other resources, and you don't want to stringify it... joanie suggested the name (aria-details)
... Marcus does this meet your needs?

markus: looks like a good start... provides a structured description ... reusable ...

rs: could use an iframe, media source....

clown: actually has an id so a name/anchor would link to it

markus: is an idref...
... can I use it with an anchor?

clown: yes,. explaination
... but you would load the entire page

markus: not restricted to what you point to, it has to be visible, you cant hide it -

clown: if you are using details, then the contents would be hidden only see the summary... the summary is what you click on to open and close
... actual contents can be hidden using a details element...

mk: it sounds like details refer to a visible element, not that the details are visible?

rs: it can be hidden, but in order to expose to AT, you must be able to make it visible
... you could have a media-query that hides something (layout small) however if you make it visible then it can be exposed to AT
... dpub wants to be able to hide stuff, but be able to make it visible if you wish...

clown: so a user could set what they want to see

jf: what about the sighted user?

rs: this would be something an ebook would turn on, not AT - keyed by user preference before the page is loaded

mk: what about this AT case?

rs: if it is hidden wont be mapped at all... so user agents need to check if the referred to content is visible

clown: that will slow down user agents

mk: media query would have to remove the attribute....
... how hard is it for a user agent to see if an id exists...

clown: mozzilla doesn't check ids...

cs: cant require a browser walks a tree...

fesch: what about ids off screen?

mk: unlikely case...

rs: can you talk about your team about this

<Zakim> clown, you wanted to ask a couple of questions.

clown: want to ask - aria details does not participate in the aria name computation...

<ShaneM> "For the avoidance of doubt, aria-details does not participate in accessible name computation."

clown: make explicit it doesn't participate in name and description calc

<richardschwerdtfeger> ACTION: Rich modify issue1009 text to ensure that aria-details does not aria-details does not participate in accessible name computation [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/02/11-aria-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2018 - Modify issue1009 text to ensure that aria-details does not aria-details does not participate in accessible name computation [on Richard Schwerdtfeger - due 2016-02-18].

<richardschwerdtfeger> a?

rs: want people to review this... first look.... will revisit

<JF> http://static-api.visually.netdna-cdn.com/media/images/v3/portfolio/infographics/portfolio-1-infographic-cvs.jpg

jf: uses case you mentioned i get... but infographic case...
... would get push back if we have to have all that text visible on page
... at some point... it becomes kludgy... not everyone is on bleeding edge

<mgylling> Might be good to include another example of aria-details that links to an external file

jf: don't see how we can address that...

<note no one mentioned longdesc>

jf: infographic in a textbook...

rs: longdesc...

marcus: maybe have a second example with an external ref

<Zakim> cyns, you wanted to ask about potential mapping conflicts

cs: does this need to be mapped...

rs: just a relationship
... new relationship

cs: don't want new relationship

mk: I don't think you would want to reuse an existing relationship - otherwise we would load confusion on existing relationship

<clown> detailsFor/detaileddby ?

cs: we already have generic relationships
... team is providing pushback - a big deal
... folks think it is more complicated

mk: is it hard to have a name, description and details - is it overload?

rs: other option - can have a describedby with multiple relationships with an indicator, if it can handle not being stringified...

mk: one gets stringified and the other doesn't ...
... what if they both mapped to the description relationship, can you put a property on the relationship to tell the user

cs: no, a description is a property - doesn't have properties
... in the current API we have the describedby not the string
... my concern is if had both describedby and details which would win

rs: Marcus were you envisioning having details and describedby?

marcus: sounds like an uncommon case...

rs: we have been calling this an extended description and don't want to stringify it... I never liked multiple descriptions... then you could have one or the other...

mk: then if you have both, we say details wins

cs: OK

rs: I will modify to be clear that we only have one mapping...

<janina> +1

clown: your example had both :(

<richardschwerdtfeger> ACTION: Rich modify aria-details to state that it wins over describedby and also to provide example with an anchor [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/02/11-aria-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2019 - Modify aria-details to state that it wins over describedby and also to provide example with an anchor [on Richard Schwerdtfeger - due 2016-02-18].

sm: what is the datatype? it is a idref

<Zakim> ShaneM, you wanted to ask what the datatype of aria-details is?

mk: put it in the table below that it takes a single idref

<clown> action-2018

<trackbot> action-2018 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Modify issue1009 text to ensure that aria-details does not aria-details does not participate in accessible name computation -- due 2016-02-18 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2018

action items

stefan: part of the mission was to look at role descriptions, why don't we have attribute descriptions - should discuss one more time -

<clown> action-1560

<trackbot> action-1560 -- Stefan Schnabel to Email list with discussion of on/off value labels (maybe valuetext?) and extending value descriptions to other controls -- due 2016-02-10 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1560

rs: would be a big job, too much for ARIA 1.1

action-1687

<trackbot> action-1687 -- James Nurthen to Get authoring practices guidance on use of aria-errormessage, including use cases for live region or not -- due 2015-07-23 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1687

action-1713

<trackbot> action-1713 -- Charles McCathie Nevile to Talk to gion kunz (chartist.js maintainer) and ask him about what roles/properties would make sense … -- due 2015-09-04 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1713

action-1723

<trackbot> action-1723 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Editorial - create sections listing the roles that provide (1) nameFrom:author and (2) nameFrom:contents -- due 2015-11-05 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1723

action-1731

<trackbot> action-1731 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Propose model for deprecation statements on individual features, with replacement and future plans guidance -- due 2015-10-14 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1731

<clown> action-1730

<trackbot> action-1730 -- Michael Cooper to Draft ¨deprecated¨ section for conformance section of spec -- due 2015-10-14 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1730

action-1742

<trackbot> Sorry, but action-1742 does not exist.

<clown> action-1743?

<trackbot> action-1743 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Put aria-activedescendant on application and request wg review -- due 2015-11-26 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1743

action-2004

<trackbot> action-2004 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Create proposal for password role -- due 2016-01-13 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2004

rs: James Craig wanted security to be talked to... rather have someone in the browsers... Cynthia?

cs: actually my suggestion... I can talk to them... only issue if characters aren't hidden...

<richardschwerdtfeger> ACTION: Cynthia check with Edge security people to see if there is a security issue with using role password [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/02/11-aria-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2020 - Check with edge security people to see if there is a security issue with using role password [on Cynthia Shelly - due 2016-02-18].

jn: I talked to our security folks, why the want to do this... dev want to stop password managers...
... they want people to not be able to use password managers

rs: a role will not stop password managers...
... we could add text in there that using a password fields offers greater security...

cs: not sure it does

mb: ARIA complement to HTML...

<Zakim> jamesn, you wanted to say I talked to security folks aabotu whether this was a real requirement

action-20056

<trackbot> Sorry, but action-20056 does not exist.

action-2005

<trackbot> action-2005 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Solicit input regarding making default spinbutton values more consistent with the defaults for HTML5's input type="number" -- due 2016-01-21 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2005

jd: did that, skimming over it...
... this was blocking another action...
... somewhere there is another action somewhere about values...

<clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Jan/0058.html

js: slider requires max and min, spin button doesn't

<clown> issue-1002

<trackbot> issue-1002 -- Spin Button default values inconsistent with HTML5 -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/1002

cs: we use min and max for low high optimal...
... we have a meter, we implement the value and range pattern...

we map meters to a string... but do both the range pattern and value pattern

<bgaraventa1979> +q

<Zakim> jamesn, you wanted to ask where this is in the HTML5 spec to say that missing equates to negative& positive infinity?

mk: in none of the other aria specs do we express infinity?

jd: we were going to add text to say do what HTML does...

jn: so what does it map a spinbutton?

cs: can be a text field...

rs: we modified text on max and min...

<joanie> action Joanmarie to draft text for default max and min spinbutton values

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2021 - Draft text for default max and min spinbutton values [on Joanmarie Diggs - due 2016-02-18].

bg: what about a spinbutton that uses aria-valuetext?

<joanie> associate aaction-2021 with issue-1002

<joanie> associate action-2021 with issue-1002

<trackbot> action-2021 (Draft text for default max and min spinbutton values) associated with issue-1002.

<Zakim> cyns, you wanted to say that number doesn't have to be a spin button. That is implementation specific

This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.144  of Date: 2015/11/17 08:39:34  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/AAXAPI/AXAPI/
Succeeded: s/an example/another example/
Succeeded: s/bigt/big/
Succeeded: s/ifref/idref/
Found Scribe: fesch
Inferring ScribeNick: fesch
Present: CBAveritt Joanmarie_Diggs Markus Joseph_Scheuhammer JF Bryan_Garaventa ShaneM MichielBijl janina
Found Date: 11 Feb 2016
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2016/02/11-aria-minutes.html
People with action items: aria-details check cynthia edge issue1009 modify people rich security text with

WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines.
You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.