See also: IRC log
<clown> agenda: this
<joanie> scribe: joanie
<clown> action-1531?
<trackbot> action-1531 -- David Bolter to Bolter to investigate ia2 mapping of role="text" -- due 2014-11-18 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1531
JS: I want to follow up on
something discussed last week.
... It's about the IA2 mapping for role="text"
... I mentioned a mailing list discussion when the agreement
was IA2_ROLE_TEXTFRAME
<clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2015Sep/0017.html
JS: I found the email which
captures it. See URL above.
... Background: Rich wrote to this list asking Alex and James
Teh what their expectation was with respect to the textframe
role and the text interface.
... (reads from thread cited above)
... At the end, James Teh asked if ROLE_SYSTEM_STATIC_TEXT was
concerned.
... I don't know what that means, and no one answered him.
RS: It's always been for things
like text displayed in message boxes.
... So the idea is you're going to have role="text" and then a
label, right?
JS: Not necessarily.
<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-text
RS: Let's say you put role="presentation" on a table.
<richardschwerdtfeger> <td> Hello Joanie <img src=“collegephoto.jpg” alt=“crazywoman”> Diggs</td>
RS: What would you do with the above?
<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-presentation
Group: The TD is a textframe in IA2.
RS: I think the same thing will happen with role="text"
<richardschwerdtfeger> scribe: Rich
<richardschwerdtfeger> scribe: Joseph
<clown> RS: Let say we have a row of these cells with content inside of them, how would they be read?
<clown> JD: They're not mapped as text frames on my platform, but as separated block elements.
<clown> JD: But with text frames, I'd have to look on a windows machine
<clown> RS: I think you want to pause between the pieces.
<clown> RS: They might come out as groups in AXAPI. And also UIA?
<clown> CS: Not on UIA. They are just text elements.
<clown> CS: I'd have to look to be sure.
<clown> CS: To be sure if there are separate text chunks, or as a one long string.
<clown> JD: I heard what you said and see the core-aam, but I question that FF is doing that.
<clown> JD: Surkov made it such that ATK would map to ROLE_STATIC.
<clown> JD: At my request, Surkov now maps span-like elements that have a property that requires an accessible object are being mapped as ATK_ROLE_STATIC
<clown> JD: For all of those instances (<abbr>, <span> with onclick) are mapped on IA2 as text frames.
<clown> JD: Ergo, IA2_ROLE_TEXTFRAMES are treated as inlines.
<clown> JD: This is what I think is happening.
<clown> RS: Confirming that they become text frames in IA2.
<clown> CS: In UIA they are no longer in the a11y tree. They are just part of a text pattern.
<clown> CS: Even so, narrator is treating them as paragraphs (the cells).
<clown> RS: So they are presented as separate.
<clown> RS: What about Linux?
<clown> JD: Each cell is mapped as a DIV. The role is ROLE_SECTION.
<clown> RS: In all cases, then, they are separate blocks.
<clown> RS: the problem with text frame is it is seen as a container.
<clown> JD: For role="text".
<clown> RS: Yes.
<clown> RS: If you had a text frame followed by text, how would you read it?
<clown> JD: the text would be inline.
<clown> RS: If you want it inline, then you don't want a text frame.
<clown> RS: We want the same experience on all platforms.
<clown> RS: UIA would map it as a text pattern, right Cynthia.
<clown> CS: Yes. Text pattern has a way of marking spaces and format changes. That's what narrator is keying off of.
<clown> RS: In the case of role text, we want it to be read together.
<clown> RS: Would that happen onf UIA?
<clown> CS: Yes
<scribe> scribe: joanie
<clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2015Sep/0017.html
JD: So I think the next step is for someone to respond to that thread and say that we think James is right re ROLE_SYSTEM_STATICTEXT.
JS: I'd like Rich to do that.
RS: I'm going to respond to xtech and refer to the thread.
<clown> wai-xtech@w3.org
<clown> IA2_ROLE_TEXTFRAME
RS: I'll also CC
public-aria
... Unless they say something different, this should be
done.
JS: So let's see what they say.
<clown> action-1533?
<trackbot> action-1533 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Investigate and possibly create a minimal/skeleton javascript at-spi2 listener with the aim of automating the 1.1 tests. -- due 2016-02-23 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1533
JD: I already postponed it until the end of February.
<clown> action-1535?
<trackbot> action-1535 -- James Craig to Investigate the axapi mappings for aria-current. -- due 2015-08-18 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1535
JS: This is more of an
information update.
... Everything is done for mapping aria-current, except for one
thing.
... Will Apple emit a notification?
<clown> https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=146012#c19
JS: The answer is at the above URL.
<clown> AXAriaAttributeChanged
JS: There's no specific
notification for aria-current, but there will be for the
attribute change.
... I imagine it's emitted any time any ARIA attribute is
changed.
... I replied to that saying that I assume that is a general
notification and asking if they want that in the mapping
spec.
RS: Are state changes listed?
JS: Yes they are in there.
RS: What about ARIA attributes?
JS: No.
RS: Then we probably need one.
JS: Do we?
... (Reads example of other attributes for AX API listed in the
mapping spec)
RS: What other attributes besides aria-current will trigger this event?
JS: All of them.
RS: Oh. So we definitely need to say something.
JS: I believe AXAriaAttributeChanged is internal; not to be exposed to ATs. But I don't know.
RS: If we can't test it....
JS: If you put this AXAriaAttributeChanged in the table, you're telling ATs that they can listen for that.
RS: But how else would you do it?
JS: This is the only way, but it's not performant.
RS: What I think you want to do
is list those things you think you should be watching
for.
... But if we put it in the table, you have to be able to test
it.
... Does the inspect tool let you listen for events?
JS: This is the case in Windows
and Linux, but I don't know on the Mac.
... I asked in Bugzilla if they really want me to put this
event in the mapping table for aria-current
notifications.
... If they say yes, then I'll ask them how we can test
it.
... So that's the update.
<clown> action-1547
<trackbot> action-1547 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Update test test cases involving rowgroup to ensure they are included within a grid container and to ensure that the expected result matches the new mappings -- due 2015-10-27 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1547
JS: This action is for you (Rich) to update test cases involving rowgroup.
RS: Should this be in the test
harness?
... If we move it to the ARIA 1.1 product, we don't have to
discuss it here.
JS: I'll do that.
issue-635
<trackbot> issue-635 -- Determine if uaig mappings for rowgroup are correct -- open
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/635
JS: It's associated with
issue-635, which is the core mapping specification.
... We'd have to decouple it from this issue.
RS: Have we got the rowgroup mappings determined?
JS: Up to a point.
<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-rowgroup
RS: We could write the test cases if we have the mappings.
JS: Ok. I'll associate it with
the test harness.
... I put the URL in for the mappings (above)
... (Reads them)
... AX API is not mapped.
JD: I remember a bunch of discussion, but was that the definitive conclusion?
<clown> https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=146239#c6
JS: James replied that if the focusable rowgroup must be exposed, then he would not expose the table as a table because it's an authoring error.
JD: Perhaps Steve Faulkner could use his tool to address James' question about real-world use cases
JS: I'll contact Steve about this.
<clown> action-1686
<trackbot> action-1686 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Drive mapping of aria-errormessage to aapis -- due 2015-07-23 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1686
<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#aria-errormessage
<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaDescribedBy
<richardschwerdtfeger> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#aria-errormessage
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.144 of Date: 2015/11/17 08:39:34 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/Two separate things/the text would be inline/ Succeeded: s/static text/ROLE_SYSTEM_STATICTEXT/ Succeeded: s/ ROLE_TEXT_FRAME/ IA2_ROLE_TEXTFRAME/ Found embedded ScribeOptions: -final *** RESTARTING DUE TO EMBEDDED OPTIONS *** Found Scribe: joanie Inferring ScribeNick: joanie Found Scribe: Rich Found Scribe: Joseph Found Scribe: joanie Inferring ScribeNick: joanie Scribes: joanie, Rich, Joseph Default Present: Joseph_Scheuhammer, Joanmarie_Diggs, Bryan_Garaventa, Rich_Schwerdtfeger Present: Joseph_Scheuhammer Joanmarie_Diggs Bryan_Garaventa Rich_Schwerdtfeger Cynthia_Shelly Found Date: 19 Jan 2016 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2016/01/19-aapi-minutes.html People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]