W3C

- DRAFT -

Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference

20 Jan 2015

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
Joshue, Kathy_Wahlbin, +1.617.766.aaaa, AWK, +1.313.390.aabb, EricE, Michael_Cooper, Mike_Elledge, David_MacDonald, Marc_Johlic, Kenny, Loretta, Katie_Haritos-Shea, James_Nurthen
Regrets
Chair
Joshue
Scribe
Kathy

Contents


<trackbot> Date: 20 January 2015

<scribe> scribe: Kathy

<Joshue> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Scribe_List#2015_Scribe_History

[Comments needing responses]: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Comments_Needing_Responses

Josh: we have a few items needing responses

<Joshue> https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/69

<Joshue> https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/70

Marc: I can take 69

Mike: I could do 70

<David> if someone is talking I can't hear it

Continue tutorials review (plus WG review of sections 6-11 of Forms Tutorial: <https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/1/TutorialsForms/> )

Josh: last week we talked about reviewing 6-11

AWK: we were doing a continuation of the review of these items

<yatil> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35532/EOweek14Jan2015/results

<yatil> http://www.w3.org/2015/01/16-eo-minutes

Eric: update from the EO working group; take the changes from WCAG working group all together so the items from last week has not been reviewed; the minutes detail the discussion
... talked about the making it clearer the relationship between the tutorial and the WCAG techniques

<yatil> http://w3c.github.io/wai-tutorials/#relationship-to-wcag-20

<yatil> http://w3c.github.io/wai-tutorials/images/#related

Eric: clarified the intent of the tutorials
... permalink and share link has been discussed
... preparing a WIKI page with the changes

Josh: in terms of the comments to objection for publishing- one was from Leonie and the other from Sharon
... Have Leonie's concerns been addressed?

<David> Comment: I don't think we should wrap the label around the input.

Eric: yes, need to look at the technical items and see if there are other items to address

Josh: What about Sharon's comments?

Eric: Sharon is part of EO, thought this is still a draft and should not be published

Josh: a few comments of things missing
... going in the right direction
... before we continue through the review, a lot of the issues will be fixed by Eric and there is work being done

#6 Validating Input

<Joshue> http://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/forms/validation/

Josh: Charles has this is a showstopper

<David> I think Example in Approach 4 should be dropped.... We sould not provide examoles of instructions not associated with the corresponding form programmatically

Josh: there is a section on server-side validation

Eric: we can make it clearer

<David> is there a place to log these

Michael: it would be helpful to have a link for input formats

Josh: Marc suggested adding techniques

Marc: should include the sufficient ARIA techniques

Josh: Katie made some comments last week
... Michael C. has a few commments in survey

Michael: HTML5 features will be a good way to notify users but not all such as passwords not matching

Josh: Eric what do you think

Eric: we have it on the user notification page; more connected so we may need to cross link

Michael: I was missing the cross-link. The validation one needs a section about validation done by the author not using native features

Josh: comments on the different use cases for errors

Eric: we have some information on support but needs to be clearer

Josh: a couple of examples should be added

Michael: this is not a show stopper but is an important issue that needs to be addressed

David: approach one leaving span with instructions - we should drop this example

<David> http://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/forms/instructions/

David: we should have example that has all the instructions

<yatil> BTW: That Approach 2 was updated in response to last week’s call: http://w3c.github.io/wai-tutorials/forms/instructions/#using-aria-labelledby (And yes, the approach numbers are off, sorry.)

<Ryladog> +1

Katie: agree with David, it is iterative but we should have HTML and aria way of doing it

Eric: we are current editing approach 2 to fix the issue with aria-labelledby

Josh: hearing that we should make sure the examples are the best we can because people will take them and use them

Eric: we are striving to have best practice examples

Josh: example 1 should be the primary approach

<Ryladog> +1 to HT

Eric: I don't know about HTML5 examples; we don't want the examples to be too complicated

Katie: HTML4 should we listed but HTML5 first

Josh: Some examples apply to HTML5

David: for HTML5 I would drop the dangling span

Katie: where there is a new HTML5 element they should be included

Josh: we need to consider user agent support

David: semi-show stopper - wrapping the label around the input

<David> http://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/forms/labels/

David: user agent support has been an issue

James: this seems to be supported now

<Ryladog> =

<yatil> David, we have also decided last week to have the wrapping example as the second, not the first example.

James: we should look through the techniques and update it

7. User Notifications

<Joshue> http://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/forms/notifications/

Josh: a few editing comments, Marc suggested adding ARIA18, Michael has comments on popup

Michael: this is not a show stopper
... dialogs are a separate topic

Eric: agree with Michael on the popup dialogs

Michael: the approach is good to have in but too much detail on how to implement a dialog

<Ryladog> +1 to

<Ryladog> mC

+1

Josh: simply is the way to go
... do we have anything on focus management

<MichaelC> (and dialogs are used for more than just error notifications, another reason I think they should be in a separate tutorial)

Eric: no

Josh: that would be good to add
... we need to have information that is not overly complex

Eric: we don't have time to create dialog tutorial

Josh: back to having a section that is short

<MichaelC> ackm e

<MichaelC> ackm e

Josh: Michael, how would you simplify this

Michael: my preferred option is to create a new section for this in a different tutorial but we if can't then it is best to leave it here. Long term vision is to indicate that we can do this with dialog and link to that tutorial

<David> Tested wrapping label around input works in all major browsers in NVDA and Voice Over H44 test Label technique required the "for" element http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20-TECHS/H44.html

Josh: best to leave it for now

8. Multi Page Forms

<Joshue> http://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/forms/multi-page/

Josh: not many comments

<jamesn> progress::-moz-progress-bar {

<jamesn> background-color:green;

<jamesn> }

<Joshue> Its in Safari 7 too

James: the progress bar in some browsers is an issue

Michael: violates UAAG

James: add that you need to override it until the user agent issues are fixed

<kentuckyjo> Hey, sorry for interjecting... if I had a question about the Success Criterion for a WCAG req, would this be a good place to ask?

<David> 2.2.2

Michael: movement that can cannot be stopped

<jamesn> progress::-webkit-progress-bar { }

David: what about the color contrast on billing address

<jamesn> for Eric - http://www.hongkiat.com/blog/html5-progress-bar/

AWK: 4.64:1

David: it is ok then

Michael: it is good to demostrate things that just pass

James: the code examples don't pass color contrast

<yatil> James, color on the left was changed to dark blue. http://w3c.github.io/wai-tutorials/forms/multi-page/

James: the chrome tool will suggest the color

Eric: we don't need invest too much time on this

9. Custom Controls

<Ryladog> v

<Joshue> http://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/forms/custom-controls/

<Ryladog> https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/accessibility-developer-t/fpkknkljclfencbdbgkenhalefipecmb?hl=en

<jamesn> https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/accessibility-developer-t/fpkknkljclfencbdbgkenhalefipecmb

Josh: no comments

TOPIC 10. Tips and Tricks

<Joshue> http://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/forms/tips/

Josh: a few editorial comments
... would these changes be implemented

Eric: they are on the tips and tricks page

James: charles commented about optgroup

Eric: we did not fit into the other pages

Josh: we should think about this

James: the WCAG violations should not be on this page

Josh: do we need this section?

James: we could add some of these on the other pages

Josh: we should look at this and merge within the tutorial and remove this section

Eric: some of the tutorials have it and some do not

Josh: suggest to EO to merge these
... anyone think it should stay as it is
... should be merge?

+1

<marcjohlic> +1

<Joshue> +1

<David> Another possible showstopper (decoration alt="") http://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/images/decorative/

<jamesn> +1

<Mike_Elledge> +1

<David> +1

<yatil> +1

RESOLUTION: remove tips and trick and merge into the other tutorials

David: we are using the term decorative images; WCAG uses pure decoration
... we should be clear in the group about what is decorative
... when there are photos on the page, users who are blind want to know what it is
... the examples and language does not match WCAG

Josh: log in the images tutorial

11. Overall and other

Josh: there are substantial comments from Leonie
... Leonie has had conversation with Eric
... going in the right direction overall
... we need to wrap up now

<David> please dropin link to leonie's comments

Josh: continue with the other tutorials next week

https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/1/TutorialsForms/results

<David> yup

Josh: send comments to EO

Eric: great feedback, thank you

Josh: this is the larger and more complex tutorial

Summary of Action Items

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Default Present: Joshue, Kathy_Wahlbin, +1.617.766.aaaa, AWK, +1.313.390.aabb, EricE, Michael_Cooper, Mike_Elledge, David_MacDonald, Marc_Johlic, Kenny, Loretta, Katie_Haritos-Shea, James_Nurthen
Present: Joshue Kathy_Wahlbin +1.617.766.aaaa AWK +1.313.390.aabb EricE Michael_Cooper Mike_Elledge David_MacDonald Marc_Johlic Kenny Loretta Katie_Haritos-Shea James_Nurthen
Found Date: 20 Jan 2015
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2015/01/20-wai-wcag-minutes.html
People with action items: 

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