DPUB a11y task force/WAI meeting

<clapierre> Ivan, can you post a link to that KEG document please.

judy: curious how much background ivan and charles have in the *cag techniques

clapierre: not much

<scribe> scribenick: ivan

judy: deborah you may be fairly familiar
... a bit of an overview would be good
... deborah, what would be good is to have a clear goal of the meeting
... the question is what could be done jointly for the dpub ig tf on a11y

dkaplan3_: looking at the various *cag stuff
... digital publishing is a subset of what is needed
... it is also special
... looking at the documents, let us make sure that all the requirements of the dpub are addressed

Judy: my guess is that something will be covered well, and we may have a broad range of special cases
... we may want to use some examples from that community
... for example the longdesc attr. discussion is particularly important use cases
... which will be solved
... and there are a number of cases for that
... there is a number of use cases that we are promoting

MichaelC: we have two threads/tf-s to enhance the role and the other one is looking at guides

<MichaelC> http://www.w3.org/TR/mwbp-wcag/

MichaelC: the mobile accessibility is a good example
... the relationship between the mobile web best practices and wai
... that may be a good example to work

<MichaelC> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/

MichaelC: the mobile accessiblity tf extends it developing more concrete guideliles
... they determined that most issues are covered by wcag, but the emphasis is different and they try to document taht
... they also go through wcag techniques and possibly define new techniques
... or showing how a specific technique is good for mobile device
... we may have a particular slice throught the techniques

<clapierre> Found this WCAG http://www.w3.org/WAI/intro/wcag.php

<MichaelC> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/

MichaelC: I can cover what we have for wcag
... there are 5-600 techniques, organized by technologies
... we also have general techniques, technology independent
... there are are also failure techniques
... regardless of what you have done you may have created a problems

<MichaelC> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/aria.html#ARIA1

MichaelC: if you go into one technique
... it shows what wcag it references and applicability
... sometimes it is more specific
... we coud use dpub as a filter, or even deeper (education or not)
... the description of the techniques is basic, "this is what you should do" plus examples
... plus test procedures, they are dry and not backed up by test files :-(
... we could do the same for dpub
... requirements coming from your work could impact that

deborah: we could put an example saying if you want to this for dpub, this is the way to do it
... there is nothing here for user agents

MichaelC: the specific issues for user agent are not covered by these techniques
... that is a separate work
... for dpub you may have some very dpub specific techniques (using chapters, etc)
... but lot of techniques may be relevant to dpub as well

<Judy> http://www.w3.org/TR/UAAG20/

judy: for uaag the document is structured in a similar way on a high level
... browsers, players, etc, make them accessible for assistive technologies
... tehre are different developers' needs

<Judy> http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/WD-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20131107/

judy: we developed implementation information, it will be renamed "implementation reference"

(we will have a new version next week)

scribe: MichaelC mentioned the separate mobile a11y examples

<Judy> http://www.w3.org/TR/IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20/mobile

scribe: that was produced to make people understand how relevant this is for the mobile environment
... we flag and ahve a discrete view particular to mobile
... that is one of the ways of organizing a particular technology
... if you were to develop a dpub a11y techniques, you could integrate those techniques or call them out
... plus special cases
... browsing the mobile case might give you a good examples

<Judy> http://www.w3.org/WAI/intro/uaag.php

Judy: in each case we felt we need a separate overview page
... and then one can get oriented for a particular purpose

<Judy> http://www.w3.org/WAI/intro/atag.php

Judy: the atag case is closer to final

<Judy> http://www.w3.org/TR/ATAG20/

Judy: this the guidelines themselves
... this is fairly stable
... if you go to the top of it, it has a similar approach

<Judy> http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/WD-IMPLEMENTING-ATAG20-20131107/

Judy: more contextual information
... more similar to the uaag
... the mobile a11y tf did not take the straightest path, in the case of dpub you do not have a proliferation of techniques around
... you might be able to jump in more directly
... talking to the mobile people may save you 6 months or so...
... they are just drafting filling the gaps

dkaplan3_: it seems to be a better way to follow what they already done
... talking to them at tpac may be a great help
... the local connection (in the boston area) might also be a good thing to use
... tpac may be so busy that this may become a difficulty

clapierre: I was wondering that we should also look into personalization as a form of a11y, how does that relate

judy: that is a important topic, with a11y intersection
... particuarly with digital publishing
... eg in eduction you want to have a good profile of the user to get things right
... the learner profile work : in certain context it is critical to pick up the learner information and we need different options on how to cover the accessibiilty issues around
... the Markku Häkkinen (aka Mark) was the person who had given lots of thought to it
... we have not had too much about it in our documents
... but it would be very relevant in many places
... the DAISY consortium had some guidelines that has been brought into epub2/3
... I do not think it is the same it as our guides
... we should do first is you guys look at these documents
... and then we should talk again to see what is an achievable target

<dkaplan3_> http://www.daisy.org/

dkaplan3_: clapierre and I are relative newcomers in this W3C work,

<Judy> ivan: [jb filling in from above] interesting to hear all of the different WAI work... need to think of how to proceed...

judy: my guess is that the mobile people are not out of the woods yet, the person whom to talk the best would be Jeanne Spellman, from W3C
... the mobile people just sent a document for review
... Jeanne has just mentioned something to me

MichaelC: they are the beginning stages, learning the way to do

Judy: how hard would it be for the wcag wg to describe what makes good techniques

<MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Technique_Instructions

MichaelC: we have already done that, but we have a real issue; we know we want to do a better version
... I cannot say when, working with you guys would actually help

judy: it is a good start
... i hope if the mobile people were invited to comment on this; this would be really good for dpub

MichaelC: we have not explicitly invite them

<MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Writing_WCAG_Techniques_-_Notes

Judy: with the understanding that this may change, that document might be helpful (may be adapted for dpub); actually if it does not work, we would like to know why...

<Judy> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Technique_Template

<MichaelC> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Techniques_Resources

Judy: next steps, my suggestion wojuld be read through some of the stuffs above
... I would suggest to make advantage of the f2f possibilities ahead of tpac
... try to get deborah, jeanne, kathy, kim and myself in the same room
... we can then talk about all this at tpac, too

clapierre: that sounds good
... i can join by skype from the bay area
... i am pretty much open at tpac, i am planning at being there for the whole week

dkaplan3_: this sounds great
... a f2f time is very valuable
... i hope clapierre is fine if i drive it here for the local f2f meeting

Judy: a physical conversation and a roadmap looks like a good next step