W3C

- DRAFT -

Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference

22 Jul 2014

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
Joshue, Mike_Elledge, David_MacDonald, jon_avila, Michael_Cooper, Brent_Shiver, Kenny, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Marc_Johlic
Regrets
Kathy_Wahlbin
Chair
Joshue
Scribe
David, MichaelC

Contents


<trackbot> Date: 22 July 2014

<Joshue108> Publication Survey: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/publication_july2014/

<Joshue108> Publication Survey: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/publication_july2014/

<Joshue108> Publication Survey: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/publication_july2014/

<Joshue108> Scribe list: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Scribe_List

<Joshue108> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Scribe_List

<David> Scribe: David

Approval of the public review versions of the Understanding/Techniques documents.

<Joshue108> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/publication_july2014/results

<Joshue108> DavidMacD; I don't remember there being a final decision on F76.

<Joshue108> DavidMacD: I don't remember there being a final decision on F76.

<Joshue108> DavidMacD: So how did it get deleted.

<jon_avila> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/F76.html

http://tinyurl.com/kmzax4o

<MichaelC> scribe: MichaelC

<David> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/10thJune2014/

<David> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/10thJune2014/

<David> http://www.w3.org/2014/06/24-wai-wcag-minutes.html

dmd: was working on a rewrite of F76

don´t remember a resolution to delete it

<David> I can take over

<scribe> scribe: David

Jonathan, hard to test

how can you guarantee that someone can't bypass something

Joshue: gregg made a point that if a user's choice, means that user is aware of cause and effect...

<Loretta> brb

Joshue: I differ to Loretta

Michael: if we need to delay this, we can, shouldn't affect final publication
... David has called out a substantial edit, that was made which we cannot substantiate... so it qualifies for delay if we can't find it...
... Andrew made the edit 6 days ago so he would know where it is...

<Loretta> back

Joshue: I will ping Andrew, to ask why it was made...
... Loretta do you know about this?

<Joshue108> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/F76.html

Loretta: I don't know, sounds like we are resolving to find where the decision was made...
... We could send out a survey to remove it...

Michael: shouldn't remove it after the fact...

<jon_avila> * I wonder if we should keep f76 and then call for approval of the publication.

Mochael: Andrew was working off of some notes... probably so we'll follow up on that.

s/mochael/Michael

RESOLUTION: Leave open publication til sort out F76 decision

New survey: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/Comments_22May2014/

Joshue: I put together some responses... for this survey, re scr21 etc...
... want to migrate issues to issue tracker

<Joshue108> Comment LC-2912: ARIA19 issue

<Joshue108> https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20140306/2912

RESOLUTION Accept 2912 as written

<Joshue108> LC-2871: Title attribute says document opens in new window

<Joshue108> https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20130905/2871

Joshue:

<jon_avila> User agents support title on link when you tab but not when you arrow.

<Joshue108> Related ISSUES are ISSUE-20 and ISSUE-32.

<Joshue108> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/issues/20

http://davidmacd.com/test/link-text-with-a-title.html

<Joshue108> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/issues/32

Loretta: Confusing... we are agreeing to remove it, but david's data shows it is pretty well supported

<marcjohlic> http://www.w3.org/TR/2014/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20140408/H33

<Joshue108> http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20120103/H33

Joshue: looks like example to is viable... we have test cases... etc... so maybe revise response

Michael: i think there may be another good reason to remove it h33 ex 2

<jon_avila> example 2 looks like something for 3.2.5 and not 2.4.4

Michael: Ex 2 is about how to tell users it opens to a new window... seems to confuse the issue of warnings for new windows... can live with keeping or removing

<jon_avila> +1 to Michael

Joshue: When I start to see user agents supporting things i like to have techniques to support that...

<MichaelC> add to end of description of example 2: ¨... as an additional warning even though the new window is also programmatically determined¨

Jonathan: Concerned... this is related to on input and on user requests... we are implying that if you have to put it in... maybe move it to another technique..

<jon_avila> http://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/consistent-behavior-no-extreme-changes-context.html

Jonathan SC3.25 or 3.2.2 might be good places for it...

<jon_avila> http://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/consistent-behavior-unpredictable-change.html

David: Concerned if it goes in those that it will resurect an old argument about change of context on clicking a link is which is not what those are about...
... Thinks 3.3.2 labels and instructions

<Loretta> brb

Michael: I think 3.2.2

<Loretta> back

Loretta: It doesn't break where it is, are we going to put it somewhere where it might break...

Michael: May have found a hole... should put in the plug in the future... input vs clicking... much debate... put it on revisit list... for future... leave where it is

Loretta: might want to log other issue.

Michael: Post WCAG 2 page... add under misc category new bullet, it is not clear whether links are controls in the sense of 3.3.2 and therefore if it applies to links, links opening new windows... needs to be warned under SC others think not...

David: I remember that the working group did not want to fail clicking a link to a new window without notice of the new window

Loretta: Do we need to update UA notes, which are extensive...?

<jon_avila> Agreed with Joshue -- it does.

iphone supports title with voice over

Voice over works

James: Soundls like the commenter is not commenting on screen reader support

Joshue: Would like to find out more about context of question

Michael: I added issue to Post WCAG 2 page

<MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Post_WCAG_2#Misc

RESOLUTION: leave open LC2871

<scribe> ACTION: Joshue to ping commenter of 2871 For more information [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/07/22-wai-wcag-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-265 - Ping commenter of 2871 for more information [on Joshue O Connor - due 2014-07-29].

<Joshue108> Comment LC-2891: The technique doesn't solve the problem of the success criterion SCR21

<Joshue108> http://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20140107/2891

<Joshue108> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/issues/35

Zakim: Next topic

Comment LC-2891: The technique doesn't solve the problem of the success criterion SCR21

Loretta: If I was random person reading archives, it would look like we closed it...

Michael: Looks like a brush off if we respond publicly...

<Loretta> As we discussed, we are moving this issue to the tracking system for issues raised by Working Group members. We will address this using that process.

<Joshue108> https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20140107/2891

Joshue: Right that will work... will move it over to new systems ... I can do it tomorrow...

Loretta: I can take care of it during the meeting

<Joshue108> LC-2904: Technique F17: procedure #4 should be reworded

<Joshue108> http://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20140107/2904

Michael: 2889, 2907 will close these comments.... separating comments form wg members... moving WG members to the issue list rather than public comments.

<Joshue108> http://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20140107/2905

James: Sometimes we have two buttons with the same access key.

Loretta: I agree accesskey not covered in 4.1.1

Michael: Axis deprecated in HTML5

<Joshue108> The axis attribute on the td element is obsolete. Use the scope attribute instead

<Joshue108> http://www.w3.org/TR/html-markup/td.html

Joshue: Let
... Let's get back to commenter to figure out what they are saying

<MichaelC> PROPOSED RESOLUTION for LC-2904: "For client-side image maps, check that the value of the usemap attribute is a URI that references a valid name or id on the page."

<MichaelC> And then change the expected result flag from true to false for that step.

<jamesn> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Change F17 title to be a failure of 4.1.1 due to invalid idrefs in HTML, remove check 1 & check 3.

RESOLUTION: Accept LC2891, 2889, 2907 responses as amended
... LC 2939 as amended and accepted
... LC-2904: "For client-side image maps, check that the value of the usemap attribute is a URI that references a valid name or id on the page."

<Loretta> Thanks for your comment. We have updated the test procedure to reflect the HTML spec correctly.

<Joshue108> https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20140107/2904

RESOLUTION: Accept LC2904 as amended

<Joshue108> Start next week on PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Change F17 title to be a failure of 4.1.1 due to invalid idrefs in HTML, remove check 1 & check 3.

<Loretta> +1 for James' proposal to retitle F17

<Mike_Elledge> Thanks!

Joshue: Start next week on PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Change F17 title to be a failure of 4.1.1 due to invalid idrefs in HTML, remove check 1 & check 3.

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Joshue to ping commenter of 2871 For more information [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/07/22-wai-wcag-minutes.html#action01]
 
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$Date: 2014-07-22 16:40:06 $

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FAILED: s/mochael/Michael/
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Succeeded: s/Michale/Michael/
Succeeded: s/wcag oost page/Post WCAG 2 page/
Succeeded: s/amended/amended and accepted/
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Found Scribe: David
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Scribes: David, MichaelC
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WARNING: Replacing list of attendees.
Old list: Joshue Mike_Elledge David_MacDonald jon_avila Michael_Cooper Brent_Shiver Kenny Loretta_Guarino_Reid Marc_Johlic James_Nurthen
New list: Joshue Mike_Elledge David_MacDonald jon_avila Michael_Cooper Brent_Shiver Kenny Loretta_Guarino_Reid Marc_Johlic

Default Present: Joshue, Mike_Elledge, David_MacDonald, jon_avila, Michael_Cooper, Brent_Shiver, Kenny, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Marc_Johlic
Present: Joshue Mike_Elledge David_MacDonald jon_avila Michael_Cooper Brent_Shiver Kenny Loretta_Guarino_Reid Marc_Johlic
Regrets: Kathy_Wahlbin
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2014JulSep/0086.html
Found Date: 22 Jul 2014
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2014/07/22-wai-wcag-minutes.html
People with action items: joshue

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