ATAG CSUN debrief and status update

Jeanne: I am very excited, still kind of flying about how well things went at CSUN. Had 13 testers sign up and more volunteers keep coming...now up to 20 people. Several warned me that this would be a waste of time, no one will respond. But instead, we created a lot of buzz about ATAG, as never before. Lots of social media follow-up. Several confirmed implementation interest. I was able to connect with decision makers.
...we now have a couple of solid prospects for implementation due to the buzz from the buttons and the cards.Many of the testers are from universities. Had several follow up calls from people interested in spreading the word through academia. I am so grateful. You all did a great job!
...it is a great example of what happens when we use a conference setting for targeted outreach.

Sharron: opening things up for questions - Andrew wants to know if Drupal is included.

Jeanne: ATAG is in contact with Drupal, but not at CSUN - Michael -?- is the person they have talked to before

Thanks, Andrew! ;-)

Sharron: We have an ATAG outreach page on our wiki - I will send the link to you, Jeanne

Sharron: Is there anything else that EO should do to help with ATAG?
... should we make ATAG a WAI-Engage project?

Jeanne: That is an interesting idea - there is so much that we need to do, but I am very limited in what I can do by myself.

Sharron: Because we have a real project with real goals, we might be able to get people on WAI-engage to help - you don't have to have W3C status to be on wai-engage.
... Wayne and I are leading the support effort, so we would be involved in that

Wayne: Did you get any people from the CSU people?

Jeanne: No

Wayne: Paul, you and I need to get to work, because we have a lot of Drupal users
... we can talk to Sue Collin

Paul: I can talk with Sue - I spoke with her yesterday

Wayne: Just talk to her about what we have put on the tester and that we need an enterprise-level user of Drupal to help us with the testing.

Jeanne: Are we using Drupal 7? There is a new version due out soon. I would like to test the current version as well as the new version - think it's 7 and 8
... We need to have 5 different tools that meet level A - would like for Drupal to be one of these.

Wayne: I will talk with Cheryl Pruitt because she probably knows who is using what, better than anyone.

Paul: Cheryl and Sue work closely together.

Eric: I just wanted to mention that the core of Drupal is limited in scope - it's very important to use modules if you want to accomplish something - module testing should be done as well.

Andrew: We have a number of Drupal implementations - like Eric said, they are having to use modules to reach WCAG 2.0, level AA - will put those people intouch with Jeanne.

Jeanne: Please give me the name of the key person.

Sharron: Jeanne - maybe you should add some tasks to EO so that we can look for volunteers to help you.
... any other questions or comments on ATAG debrief?

Jeanne: People in Korea at the WWW conference are talking about helping.

<Andrew> https://austin2014.drupal.org/

Sharron: There may be an opportunity for someone to speak at the Drupal-con in Austin in May

<jeanne> https://austin2014.drupal.org/program

Providing Tutorial Feedback on GitHub & Wiki

<yatil> https://github.com/w3c/wai-tutorials

Eric: We didn't get into editing on Github at the F2F - some stuff has been added to the read me file

<yatil> https://github.com/w3c/wai-tutorials/blob/master/README.md

Eric: there is an edit button on the right - even in the read me file; choose the edit button and edit the document - pretty straight-forward.

Sharron: GitHub participation is 100% optional

Eric: Yes, it's optional, but may be a little easier to edit things like typos in GitHub

<yatil> https://github.com/w3c/wai-tutorials/blob/master/source/images/informative.html.erb.md

Eric: You have to make a request to get permission to write to it.

<yatil> http://w3c.github.io/wai-tutorials/

Eric: you can comment and/or edit directly on the GitHub page; Wayne, if you cannot use one or the other, just drop me an email.

Wayne: I can't use the wiki

Sharron: For typos, you can always just send an email to the list.

Eric: In GitHub, if you are logged in and click on "edit," you have a text editor available and are able to edit in the browser.
... there is also a preview button - can have a full screen mode to help with concentration.
... once you're done, you can commit the changes, which tells Eric that he should apply the changes.
... you will have a copy in your account of the edits you have made.

<Andrew> so, to send back to Eric I just press 'propose file change'?

Sharron: in EO, we usually go through the process of having people approve edits - how does this work on GitHub?
... where is the EO approval process?

Eric: If there are things that need EO approval, I will bring that to the group and people can look at the changes.
... if I think the changes are not needed, I might bullet it and ask EO to look at it.

Sharron: Participants would not necessarily have to go to GitHub?

Eric: Drafts would be under a Github URL, but is rendered the normal tutorials style.

Sharron: So, everyone would go to GitHub to see how they are rendered?

Eric: Yes

<yatil> http://w3c.github.io/wai-tutorials/

Sylvie: How accessible is this? I am not sure that I am able to edit anything in this.

<Jeanne> Does it pull in the W3C stylesheets? I am afraid the WAI template pages are all coded with relative links.

Sharron: This is entirely optional - the GitHub platform is being offered for people who are used to this platform, but others do not have to use it.
... GitHub provides a way to get immediate feedback on changes.

Eric: GitHub is fairly accessible and responsive to feedback - they have already made changes on a few things I have suggested
... changes are easier to see because they are marked as deleted or edited.

Sharron: The only interaction EO members might have to have with GitHub is if we need to look at rendered pages that are needing approval before going live on the EO page
... if there's a draft that needed general EO review, there would be a GitHub url that you would have to look at, but you could still make comments in the wiki. Does that make sense, Sylvie?

Sylvie: I am not sure.

Liam: GitHub is quite accessible and everyone resists it at first.

Eric: Just try it if you think it makes sense for you, if you think that it's too much, then don't try it - do what you feel is right.

<Sharron> Liam: highly recommends it for one word edits, adding punctuation and other minor wordsmithery

Eric: some technical information in the readme if you want to work on large portions of the page, but most people won't need this level of knowledge.

<yatil> https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Tutorials/Feedback

Eric: I decided to split up feedback pages on the Wiki, so that we didn't have such a long page
... will sort into different categories next week - we will have individual pages so that we can get more targeted feedback.

<yatil> https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Tutorials/Feedback/Tables

Eric: look at the details page - split into 3 or 4 pages
... comments are more elaborate and will need an EO discussion
... proposals are something that we connect and could apply to the tutorials - things that we are considering, but not implementing right away

<Andrew> https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Tutorials/Feedback goes to https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Tutorials/Feedback/Images etc

Eric: There is a separate page for each one

Sharron: Wayne and Sylvie - comments on the wiki about usability?
... Wayne - have you had time to apply the style sheet that Eric sent?

Wayne: I haven't had time to apply it yet.

Eric: I sent it in email - it removes the left column so that you have one column.

Wayne: Good - I can put in colors and stuff.

Sharron: How about you, Sylvie? Anything you want to talk about?

Sylvie: Sometimes it's not clear what the action items are ... in general it is not clear about where to comment.
... In general, I have gotten used to the wiki now, so it's okay.

Sharron: I have the same problem.

Andrew: Log into the wiki before you start to review so that you don't lose your place when you log in.
... before you follow through the agenda to do the homework, log in first.

Wayne: If you're going to enlarge, you have to log in, enlarge, go back to the link and then it will put you back on the page you were on - the minute you enlarge, you have lost your place.
... an enlarged screen has about 25 words - the average comment takes 3 screens.
... I would like for everyone to go to the wiki, enlarge the text to 200% and try to do your homework this week - I would really like for everyone to try this this week.
... Eric, how do I include the style sheet?

Bim: The last couple of times, I have noticed that dates have been put into the wiki - this is helpful.
... there have been times when there have been no dates and that contributes to being lost.

Sharron: So, you're saying that when comments are made, or when assignments are made, use dates?

Bim: Yes

Sharron: Some of the "for everyone" items can get quickly dated - Shawn and I are going to have to talk about this - the everyone items should only be on the action page.
... I will check with Shawn to make sure that was her intention
... each week, we should take out the old "everyone" actions and replace them; if there are items from there that are longer-term, then we should move them somewhere else.

Bim: When you get to the topic page, would it be good to put the meeting date in there as well?
... would help for the links to go directly to the heading where the editing needs to be done.
... the date is very specific, so it would be good to have it link to the date

Sharron: Any time there is a related action on a page, put the date so that it's easy to search.

<Zakim> Andrew, you wanted to ask about links to drafts and github from the wiki

Bim: I was looking for the tutorials section, but there wasn't one.

Procurement Resources

<Sharron> https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Procurement_Resources#Accessible_Procurement_Resources

Sharron: Is there any other polishing, or anything else that needs to be done to the page before we move it to the WAI-Engage wiki and invite participation?

Liam: I am pretty sure there are rules in Holand and Scandinavia - I will try to find these.

Sharron: In Europe, are the terms the same?

Andrew: We use simliar language ... sometimes Request for Quote (RFQ)

Sharron: We may want to add RFQ - we want this to be globally relevant
... does anyone have thoughts about outreach?
... Wayne was going to try to contact procurement people at CSU to participate - I am going to do this for the state of Texas - is there anyone else who might have contacts like this? Andrew?

Andrew: I can ask and circulate the link, but cannot make any promises that people will participate.

Sharron: Yes - it can be difficult to get particpation on wai-engage
... if anyone has thoughts about how to do outreach and encourage people to participate, please add that to the EO wiki
... share procurement programs that work, language, etc. - anything that makes for successful procurement programs that include accessibility.

Andrew: I think we should just have a look at the page before it's transferred to wai-engage.
... I would be happy to review the edited version before it's transferred out to wai-engage

Sharron: We would welcome other changes for the your wai page ... anything the group wants to discuss?

<Andrew> http://www.w3.org/WAI/yourWAI

<LiamM> Um... http://xkcd.com/773/

YourWAI Page

<Andrew> http://www.w3.org/WAI/yourWAI

Jeanne: Highlighted resources?

Sharron: Yes - that would be better

Bim: Can we have an introduction heading?
... Skip to content takes you to the H1
... Having a H2 Introduction would help

Sharron: What is the relevance of the link in IRC Liam?

Liam: Do we know what people want ... what they are looking for?

Sharron: No
... in the past, the comment has been that people go to the W3C, looking for help, but it's difficult to find anything - this page was meant to be a "way finding" guide - we may not have promoted this well enough to know if it's helping people or not.

Liam: Is the finding your wai page any different than the getting started page?

Andrew: thinks yes - finding your way allows us to highlight things in a different way - it's a bit deeper than highlights and press releases.

Liam: Is anyone ever going to go looking for this page?
... even if you feature it, can people find it when they are looking for information?

Sharron: Are we leaning toward getting rid of this page and moving it to the getting started page?

<Andrew> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ has a list of What's New

Liam: or the home page - with standard web page information, this is the kind of information you might expect to find on the home page.
... It's not a what's new page, it shouldn't be a what's important page ... it's a bunch of stuff you may not have come across page - that is not a good page because people don't typically go searching for "stuff I may not have come across" page.

<Andrew> instead should we make sure http://www.w3.org/WAI/sitemap is kept up-to-date?

Sharron: That's right - we need to understand what the purpose is of this page and determine whether or not it's fulfilling that purpose.
... We are hearing - mostly from governmental agencies - how do we buy things that are accessible?

<paulschantz> +1 to Andrew's comment about keeping the site map current

Sharron: I think the goal of what we were trying to do with this page is clear, but this page is not fulfilling that goal.

Andrew: Would it be more useful to highlight the wai site map and we just make sure that is up-to-date?

<paulschantz> the site map is even more out of date than the "finding your wai" page

Andrew: rather than spending time on the your wai page, we might want to archive it and just make sure that the site map is updated.

Liam: I think that we should throw the finding your wai page away - it is adding to the thicket - just one more branch. It is not making it easier.

Sharron: I agree ... so what do we do next to fulfill the purpose for which this page was written.

Liam: Install analytics on the wai page so that we can find out where people go and where they should go?
... the answer for analytics is that we are vendor neutral, so we have to build our own tools.

Andrew: they use Google search

Eric: I will add this to my agenda to speak to Shawn and Shadi because I was wondering about the analytics as well.

<Andrew> Thanks Eric

<LiamM> Yay Eric

<paulschantz> there are plenty of open source log file analyzers if there are objections to using proprietary analytic products

Paul: There are plenty of open-source log files for analytics out there.
... anything is better than nothing.

Sharron: We always seem to struggle with the question of how EO can be more effective with telling people about the resources we have available.
... so many people were thrilled with discovering BAD and then discovering Easy Checks through that, so this is really something that we need to solve - so getting Eric on the analytics internally would help so much.
... Liam made a suggestion to dump the page - everyone needs to let us know if they agree through +1

<yatil> +1

Jan - +1 to Liam's idea

<Sharron> +1

<Wayne> +1

<Bim> +1

<Andrew> +1 but need to pay attention to the sitemap page

<paulschantz> +1, but only if we replace it with a page that does exactly the same thing ;-)

<Wayne> I will mourn until 7:30

Sharron: We need to find a more effective way to accomplish what this page set out to accomplish - something that does exactly the same thing, but something different.
... we are not meeting next week. Let's see what we come up with from Eric's conversation with Shadi and Shawn.

Public Easy Checks Suggestions

<Sharron> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-eo-editors/2014Apr/0000.html

Sharron: Is asking whether or not the titles just need to be changed, or do we need to change content?

Andrew: Adding landmarks and tables should be added after we have cleaned up the draft of the current version.

<yatil> +1 for future version, tables not really easy to check

Sharron: I don't think tables belong in the same section as forms

Andrew: We dropped tables because it was getting to complicated for now

Sharron: Do we need any further response to this? I have asked him a question, but he has not responded.

Andrew: Thank him for the suggestion and let him know that it will be added to future updates - not this month or next month.

Sharron: That sounds good to me - I just wanted to check in with everyone.

Action Reminders

Sharron: We will not meet next Friday.
... in the meantime, the general homework is going to be watching for emails from Eric to review new content in the tutorials.
... Liam, would you be willing to take on the task of writing 3-4 sentences aobut what we need to do to accomplish the goal of the wai-engage page - in light of our desire to retire this page.
... just comment in the wiki.
... Jan and I have homework to do on the procurement resources, but mostly it's just providing feedback for Eric.
... I will be interested in finding out how Eric's stylesheet works for Wayne.

Wayne: The W3C's wiki is a good example of what not to do for enlargement.
... hold off on the homework I asked all of you to do with the enlargement - I will see if I can civilize it a bit more and get back with everyone.

Sharron: Thanks, everyone for your participation.
... in two weeks, Shawn will be back.