14:59:08 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/11/12-ldp-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/11/12-ldp-irc ←
14:59:10 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs public ←
14:59:12 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be LDP
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be LDP ←
14:59:12 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_LDP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_LDP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute ←
14:59:13 <trackbot> Meeting: Linked Data Platform (LDP) Working Group Teleconference
14:59:13 <trackbot> Date: 12 November 2012
14:59:15 <Zakim> SW_LDP()10:00AM has now started
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_LDP()10:00AM has now started ←
14:59:20 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
Zakim IRC Bot: +OpenLink_Software ←
14:59:21 <Zakim> +dret
Zakim IRC Bot: +dret ←
14:59:21 <MacTed> Zakim, who's here
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, who's here ←
14:59:21 <Zakim> MacTed, you need to end that query with '?'
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed, you need to end that query with '?' ←
14:59:24 <MacTed> Zakim, who's here?
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, who's here? ←
14:59:24 <Zakim> On the phone I see dret, OpenLink_Software
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see dret, OpenLink_Software ←
14:59:25 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, stevebattle, nandana, JohnArwe, dret, SteveS, timbl, MacTed, jmvanel, oberger, webr3, trackbot, Arnaud, bblfish, Yves, sandro, ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see RRSAgent, stevebattle, nandana, JohnArwe, dret, SteveS, timbl, MacTed, jmvanel, oberger, webr3, trackbot, Arnaud, bblfish, Yves, sandro, ericP ←
14:59:33 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me ←
14:59:33 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +MacTed; got it ←
14:59:35 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me ←
14:59:35 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted ←
14:59:57 <Zakim> +Arnaud
Zakim IRC Bot: +Arnaud ←
14:59:59 <MacTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
Ted Thibodeau: RRSAgent, draft minutes ←
14:59:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/12-ldp-minutes.html MacTed
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/12-ldp-minutes.html MacTed ←
15:00:05 <MacTed> RRSAgent, make logs public
Ted Thibodeau: RRSAgent, make logs public ←
15:00:18 <Zakim> +[IBM]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IBM] ←
15:00:22 <Zakim> +bblfish
Zakim IRC Bot: +bblfish ←
15:00:25 <bblfish> hi
Henry Story: hi ←
15:00:49 <SteveS> Zakim, [IBM] is me
Steve Speicher: Zakim, [IBM] is me ←
15:00:50 <Zakim> +SteveS; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +SteveS; got it ←
15:01:05 <Zakim> +SteveBattle
Zakim IRC Bot: +SteveBattle ←
15:01:22 <Zakim> +??P10
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P10 ←
15:01:35 <oberger> Zakim, ??P10 is me
Olivier Berger: Zakim, ??P10 is me ←
15:01:35 <Zakim> +oberger; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +oberger; got it ←
15:01:42 <Zakim> + +44.208.573.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +44.208.573.aaaa ←
15:02:08 <Zakim> +??P14
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P14 ←
15:02:10 <Zakim> +JohnArwe
Zakim IRC Bot: +JohnArwe ←
15:02:49 <oberger> it looks like the F2F has boosted the contribs, right ?
Olivier Berger: it looks like the F2F has boosted the contribs, right ? ←
15:03:51 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me ←
15:03:51 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should no longer be muted ←
15:03:59 <roger> zakim, aaaa is me
Roger Menday: zakim, aaaa is me ←
15:03:59 <Zakim> +roger; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +roger; got it ←
15:04:05 <nandana> Zakim, ??P14 is me
Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: Zakim, ??P14 is me ←
15:04:05 <Zakim> +nandana; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +nandana; got it ←
15:04:06 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me ←
15:04:06 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted ←
15:04:18 <MacTed> Zakim, who's here?
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, who's here? ←
15:04:18 <Zakim> On the phone I see dret, MacTed (muted), Arnaud, SteveS, bblfish, SteveBattle, oberger, roger, JohnArwe, nandana
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see dret, MacTed (muted), Arnaud, SteveS, bblfish, SteveBattle, oberger, roger, JohnArwe, nandana ←
15:04:20 <Zakim> On IRC I see roger, Zakim, RRSAgent, stevebattle, nandana, JohnArwe, dret, SteveS, timbl, MacTed, jmvanel, oberger, webr3, trackbot, Arnaud, bblfish, Yves, sandro, ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see roger, Zakim, RRSAgent, stevebattle, nandana, JohnArwe, dret, SteveS, timbl, MacTed, jmvanel, oberger, webr3, trackbot, Arnaud, bblfish, Yves, sandro, ericP ←
15:04:21 <nandana> Zakim, mute me
Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: Zakim, mute me ←
15:04:21 <Zakim> nandana should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: nandana should now be muted ←
15:04:46 <Zakim> +Ashok_Malhotra
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ashok_Malhotra ←
15:05:14 <bblfish> I can scribe
Henry Story: I can scribe ←
15:05:41 <Zakim> +MHausenblas
Zakim IRC Bot: +MHausenblas ←
15:05:46 <cygri> zakim, mhausenblas is temporarily me
Richard Cyganiak: zakim, mhausenblas is temporarily me ←
15:05:46 <Zakim> +cygri; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +cygri; got it ←
15:05:51 <bblfish> I am not good at the commands for this
Henry Story: I am not good at the commands for this ←
15:06:13 <SteveS> Scribe: bblfish
(Scribe set to Henry Story)
<bblfish> Chair: Arnaud
<bblfish> Topic: Minutes of last meetings
15:06:19 <bblfish> subTopic: Approve the minutes of October 22
15:06:28 <bblfish> do we have the link?
do we have the link? ←
15:06:29 <cygri> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/meeting/2012-10-22
Richard Cyganiak: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/meeting/2012-10-22 ←
15:06:40 <oberger> read them
Olivier Berger: read them ←
15:07:06 <bblfish> RESOLVED: Minutes of October 22 approved
RESOLVED: Minutes of October 22 approved ←
15:07:16 <cygri> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/meeting/2012-11-01
Richard Cyganiak: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/meeting/2012-11-01 ←
15:07:16 <SteveS> read them
Steve Speicher: read them ←
15:07:17 <stevebattle> yes
Steve Battle: yes ←
15:07:18 <cygri> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/meeting/2012-11-012
Richard Cyganiak: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/meeting/2012-11-012 ←
15:07:19 <bblfish> subTopic: Approve TPAC minutes
15:07:25 <stevebattle> no
Steve Battle: no ←
15:07:40 <bblfish> RESOLVED: Minutes of Nov 1 & 2 approved
RESOLVED: Minutes of Nov 1 & 2 approved ←
15:07:49 <cygri> oops, second link should be http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/meeting/2012-11-02
Richard Cyganiak: oops, second link should be http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/meeting/2012-11-02 ←
15:08:11 <bblfish> Topic: Action and Issues
15:08:33 <oberger> subtopic: Actions
15:08:43 <bblfish> Arnaud: does anyone want to claim any actions
Arnaud Le Hors: does anyone want to claim any actions ←
15:08:55 <cygri> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/pendingreview
Richard Cyganiak: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/pendingreview ←
15:08:57 <oberger> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/21
Olivier Berger: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/21 ←
15:09:01 <bblfish> close action 21
15:09:11 <bblfish> zakim, close action 21
15:09:11 <Zakim> I don't understand 'close action 21', bblfish
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'close ACTION-21', bblfish ←
15:09:16 <JohnArwe> close action-21
15:09:16 <trackbot> ACTION-21 Set up wiki page on Access Control closed
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-21 Set up wiki page on Access Control closed ←
15:09:40 <oberger> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/25
Olivier Berger: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/25 ←
15:09:44 <bblfish> close action-25
15:09:44 <trackbot> ACTION-25 Create a wiki page for the test suite and validator proposals closed
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-25 Create a wiki page for the test suite and validator proposals closed ←
15:10:09 <bblfish> issue-33?
15:10:09 <trackbot> ISSUE-33 -- Pagination for non-container resources -- raised
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-33 -- Pagination for non-container resources -- raised ←
15:10:09 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/33
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/33 ←
15:10:16 <cygri> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Deployment_Guide
Richard Cyganiak: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Deployment_Guide ←
15:10:39 <bblfish> issue-7?
15:10:39 <trackbot> ISSUE-7 -- What operations are permittered on containers and how do they get invoked? -- open
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-7 -- What operations are permittered on containers and how do they get invoked? -- open ←
15:10:39 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/7
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/7 ←
15:10:55 <MacTed> issue-26?
15:10:55 <trackbot> ISSUE-26 -- creation model for LDP -- open
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-26 -- creation model for LDP -- open ←
15:10:55 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/26
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/26 ←
15:11:02 <MacTed> action-26?
15:11:02 <trackbot> ACTION-26 -- Richard Cyganiak to create wiki page for Deployment Guide -- due 2012-11-09 -- PENDINGREVIEW
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-26 -- Richard Cyganiak to create wiki page for Deployment Guide -- due 2012-11-09 -- PENDINGREVIEW ←
15:11:02 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/26
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/26 ←
15:11:04 <cygri> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/pendingreview
Richard Cyganiak: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/pendingreview ←
15:11:23 <bblfish> action 26? Or 25?
15:11:23 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find 26?. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/users>.
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find 26?. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/users>. ←
15:11:41 <oberger> action 22?
15:11:41 <trackbot> Sorry, bad ACTION syntax
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, bad ACTION syntax ←
15:11:57 <bblfish> close action-22
15:11:57 <trackbot> ACTION-22 Open an issue on paging closed
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-22 Open an issue on paging closed ←
15:12:05 <bblfish> close action-23
15:12:05 <trackbot> ACTION-23 Create a new issue on managing weak aggregation, to subsume ISSUE-7; PATCH might be one way to do it closed
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-23 Create a new issue on managing weak aggregation, to subsume ISSUE-7; PATCH might be one way to do it closed ←
15:12:10 <bblfish> close action-26
15:12:10 <trackbot> ACTION-26 Create wiki page for Deployment Guide closed
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-26 Create wiki page for Deployment Guide closed ←
15:12:40 <cygri> I claim victory on actions 22, 23, 26
Richard Cyganiak: I claim victory on actions 22, 23, 26 ←
15:12:41 <bblfish> Arnaud: steve battle have you done action 19?
Arnaud Le Hors: steve battle have you done ACTION-19? ←
15:12:51 <bblfish> action-19?
15:12:51 <trackbot> ACTION-19 -- Steve Battle to lDBP -> LDP, have to be done on the use case and requirements document as well as there are many references to "basic profile". -- due 2012-10-27 -- PENDINGREVIEW
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-19 -- Steve Battle to lDBP -> LDP, have to be done on the use case and requirements document as well as there are many references to "basic profile". -- due 2012-10-27 -- PENDINGREVIEW ←
15:12:51 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/19
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/19 ←
15:13:21 <bblfish> close action-19
15:13:21 <trackbot> ACTION-19 LDBP -> LDP, have to be done on the use case and requirements document as well as there are many references to "basic profile". closed
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-19 LDBP -> LDP, have to be done on the use case and requirements document as well as there are many references to "basic profile". closed ←
15:13:26 <bblfish> close action-20
15:13:26 <trackbot> ACTION-20 Move Use Case examples to Examples area on the wiki closed
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-20 Move Use Case examples to Examples area on the wiki closed ←
15:13:58 <bblfish> subTopic: Raised Issues
15:14:30 <bblfish> Olivier: what do we do with comments on the public mailing list which look like issues?
Olivier Berger: what do we do with comments on the public mailing list which look like issues? ←
15:15:17 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me ←
15:15:17 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should no longer be muted ←
15:15:37 <bblfish> Arnaud: formally speaking during last call where there is a duty to deal with all the comments we received. It is not necessary to do this now, but it is a good thing to do it, ...
Arnaud Le Hors: formally speaking during last call where there is a duty to deal with all the comments we received. It is not necessary to do this now, but it is a good thing to do it, ... ←
15:16:17 <bblfish> Arnaud: if you see an issue put it up
Arnaud Le Hors: if you see an issue put it up ←
15:16:22 <cygri> zakim, who is on the phone/
Richard Cyganiak: zakim, who is on the phone/ ←
15:16:22 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is on the phone/', cygri
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'who is on the phone/', cygri ←
15:16:32 <bblfish> ... lets look at the raised issues
... lets look at the raised issues ←
15:16:32 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me ←
15:16:32 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted ←
15:16:32 <cygri> zakim who is on the phone?
Richard Cyganiak: zakim who is on the phone? ←
15:16:38 <bblfish> issue-27?
15:16:38 <trackbot> ISSUE-27 -- Should the PATCH method be used, as opposed to POST with a given mime type? -- raised
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-27 -- Should the PATCH method be used, as opposed to POST with a given mime type? -- raised ←
15:16:38 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/27
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/27 ←
15:16:42 <cygri> zakim, who is on the phone?
Richard Cyganiak: zakim, who is on the phone? ←
15:16:42 <Zakim> On the phone I see dret, MacTed (muted), Arnaud, SteveS, bblfish, SteveBattle, oberger, roger, JohnArwe, nandana (muted), Ashok_Malhotra, cygri
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see dret, MacTed (muted), Arnaud, SteveS, bblfish, SteveBattle, oberger, roger, JohnArwe, nandana (muted), Ashok_Malhotra, cygri ←
15:17:17 <oberger> is the lack of "raiser" normal ?
Olivier Berger: is the lack of "raiser" normal ? ←
15:17:34 <bblfish> cygri: issue-27 was raised by tim during the face to face
Richard Cyganiak: ISSUE-27 was raised by timBL during the face to face ←
15:17:43 <bblfish> s/tim/timBL/
15:18:22 <bblfish> Arnaud: we should open issue-27
Arnaud Le Hors: we should open ISSUE-27 ←
15:18:31 <bblfish> RESOLVED: open issue-27
15:18:31 <trackbot> ISSUE-27 Should the PATCH method be used, as opposed to POST with a given mime type? re-opened
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-27 Should the PATCH method be used, as opposed to POST with a given mime type? re-opened ←
15:18:44 <bblfish> issue-28?
15:18:44 <trackbot> ISSUE-28 -- transaction/rollback when deleting resources from a LDPC -- raised
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-28 -- transaction/rollback when deleting resources from a LDPC -- raised ←
15:18:44 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/28
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/28 ←
15:19:14 <oberger> open it
Olivier Berger: open it ←
15:19:15 <stevebattle> q+
Steve Battle: q+ ←
15:19:18 <bblfish> any opinions?
any opinions? ←
15:19:34 <bblfish> who is this?
who is this? ←
15:19:52 <Arnaud> ack stevebattle
Arnaud Le Hors: ack stevebattle ←
15:20:00 <bblfish> SteveS: we should open it, its a valid issue
Steve Speicher: we should open it, its a valid issue ←
15:20:23 <bblfish> SteveBattle: thinks given RDF is an open world model this does not make so much sense, but we should open it
Steve Battle: thinks given RDF is an open world model this does not make so much sense, but we should open it ←
15:20:40 <bblfish> RESOLVED: open issue-28
15:20:40 <trackbot> ISSUE-28 transaction/rollback when deleting resources from a LDPC re-opened
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-28 transaction/rollback when deleting resources from a LDPC re-opened ←
15:20:50 <bblfish> issue-29?
15:20:50 <trackbot> ISSUE-29 -- Relative URIs are crucial -- raised
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-29 -- Relative URIs are crucial -- raised ←
15:20:50 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/29
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/29 ←
15:21:39 <bblfish> stevebattle: could have impact on primer
Steve Battle: could have impact on primer ←
15:21:55 <bblfish> stevebattle: but not sure if it has impact on spec
Steve Battle: but not sure if it has impact on spec ←
15:22:15 <bblfish> bblfish: +1
Henry Story: +1 ←
15:22:23 <bblfish> q+
q+ ←
15:22:26 <MacTed> +1 open
Ted Thibodeau: +1 open ←
15:22:32 <Arnaud> ack bblfish
Arnaud Le Hors: ack bblfish ←
15:23:09 <bblfish> richard: should be a deployment guide thing
Richard Cyganiak: should be a deployment guide thing ←
15:23:24 <oberger> let's open it and stop discussing for now, then ;)
Olivier Berger: let's open it and stop discussing for now, then ;) ←
15:23:25 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute m
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute m ←
15:23:25 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should no longer be muted ←
15:23:29 <cygri> oberger++
Richard Cyganiak: oberger++ ←
15:23:42 <bblfish> bblfish: no just got a proxy that can proxy w3c and add webid auth to it
Henry Story: no just got a proxy that can proxy w3c and add webid auth to it ←
15:23:46 <bblfish> RESOLVED: open issue-29
15:23:46 <trackbot> ISSUE-29 Relative URIs are crucial re-opened
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-29 Relative URIs are crucial re-opened ←
15:23:57 <bblfish> issue-30?
15:23:57 <trackbot> ISSUE-30 -- Hierarchical bugtracking service -- raised
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-30 -- Hierarchical bugtracking service -- raised ←
15:23:57 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/30
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/30 ←
15:24:20 <stevebattle> q+
Steve Battle: q+ ←
15:24:30 <bblfish> cygri: already has been very useful
Richard Cyganiak: already has been very useful ←
15:24:36 <oberger> I'm afraid the description is not understandable
Olivier Berger: I'm afraid the description is not understandable ←
15:24:38 <bblfish> Arnaud: but why do we have an issue here
Arnaud Le Hors: but why do we have an issue here ←
15:24:45 <SteveS> q+
Steve Speicher: q+ ←
15:24:57 <bblfish> SteveS: badly written contains two issues - SteveS can you detail this here?
Steve Speicher: badly written contains two issues - SteveS can you detail this here? ←
15:25:31 <bblfish> Arnaud: this is an issue against the UCR
Arnaud Le Hors: this is an issue against the UCR ←
15:25:45 <bblfish> ... lets leave it as is for now until Eric is here
... lets leave it as is for now until Eric is here ←
15:25:50 <oberger> +1 for ericP to provide a bit more verbose description of the "issues"
Olivier Berger: +1 for ericP to provide a bit more verbose description of the "issues" ←
15:25:57 <Arnaud> q?
Arnaud Le Hors: q? ←
15:26:05 <Arnaud> ack steves
Arnaud Le Hors: ack steves ←
15:26:41 <Arnaud> ack stevebattle
Arnaud Le Hors: ack stevebattle ←
15:26:48 <bblfish> stevebattle: are these intended to be examples that should go into use case document. These are not examples already there.
Steve Battle: are these intended to be examples that should go into use case document. These are not examples already there. ←
15:27:08 <bblfish> Arnaud: we get back to it when Eric is back
Arnaud Le Hors: we get back to it when Eric is back ←
15:27:08 <oberger> ericP, please enlighten us on http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/30
Olivier Berger: ericP, please enlighten us on http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/30 ←
15:27:12 <bblfish> Issue-31?
15:27:12 <trackbot> ISSUE-31 -- Proper Conformance section for LDP spec -- raised
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-31 -- Proper Conformance section for LDP spec -- raised ←
15:27:12 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/31
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/31 ←
15:27:22 <bblfish> Arnaud: that seems real
Arnaud Le Hors: that seems real ←
15:27:30 <bblfish> RESOLVED: open issue-31
15:27:30 <trackbot> ISSUE-31 Proper Conformance section for LDP spec re-opened
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-31 Proper Conformance section for LDP spec re-opened ←
15:27:34 <bblfish> issue-32?
15:27:34 <trackbot> ISSUE-32 -- How can clients discover that a resource is an LDPR or LDPC, and what features are supported? -- raised
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-32 -- How can clients discover that a resource is an LDPR or LDPC, and what features are supported? -- raised ←
15:27:34 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/32
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/32 ←
15:28:09 <bblfish> q+
q+ ←
15:28:13 <oberger> issue-7?
15:28:13 <trackbot> ISSUE-7 -- What operations are permittered on containers and how do they get invoked? -- open
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-7 -- What operations are permittered on containers and how do they get invoked? -- open ←
15:28:13 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/7
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/7 ←
15:28:16 <MacTed> +1 open 32
Ted Thibodeau: +1 open 32 ←
15:28:23 <bblfish> q-
q- ←
15:28:40 <deiu> +1 for 32
Andrei Sambra: +1 for 32 ←
15:28:48 <bblfish> SteveS: some of these cases are already known...
Steve Speicher: some of these cases are already known... ←
15:28:55 <bblfish> ?
? ←
15:29:06 <bblfish> RESOLVED: open issue-32
15:29:06 <trackbot> ISSUE-32 How can clients discover that a resource is an LDPR or LDPC, and what features are supported? re-opened
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-32 How can clients discover that a resource is an LDPR or LDPC, and what features are supported? re-opened ←
15:29:23 <bblfish> issue-33?
15:29:23 <trackbot> ISSUE-33 -- Pagination for non-container resources -- raised
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-33 -- Pagination for non-container resources -- raised ←
15:29:23 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/33
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/33 ←
15:29:41 <bblfish> RESOLVED: open issue-33
15:29:41 <trackbot> ISSUE-33 Pagination for non-container resources re-opened
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-33 Pagination for non-container resources re-opened ←
15:30:02 <bblfish> issue-34?
15:30:02 <trackbot> ISSUE-34 -- Adding and removing arcs in weak aggregation -- raised
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-34 -- Adding and removing arcs in weak aggregation -- raised ←
15:30:02 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/34
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/34 ←
15:30:06 <bblfish> RESOLVED: open issue-34
15:30:07 <trackbot> ISSUE-34 Adding and removing arcs in weak aggregation re-opened
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-34 Adding and removing arcs in weak aggregation re-opened ←
15:30:16 <bblfish> issue-35?
15:30:16 <trackbot> ISSUE-35 -- POSTing to a container MUST yield a fresh URI -- raised
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-35 -- POSTing to a container MUST yield a fresh URI -- raised ←
15:30:16 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/35
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/35 ←
15:30:26 <bblfish> Arnaud: is that a different one richard?
Arnaud Le Hors: is that a different one richard? ←
15:30:48 <bblfish> cygri: yes, it is .... ? (cygri please fill in your argument )
Richard Cyganiak: i find the current language about assigning new URIs after POST-to-container too weak ←
15:30:58 <bblfish> cygri: might just be editorial issue
Richard Cyganiak: might just be editorial issue ←
15:31:53 <bblfish> SteveS and Stevebattle: should be opened
SteveS and MacTed: should be opened ←
15:31:59 <cygri> s/yes, it is .... ?/i find the current language about assigning new URIs after POST-to-container too weak/
15:32:05 <bblfish> RESOLVED: open issue-35
15:32:05 <trackbot> ISSUE-35 POSTing to a container MUST yield a fresh URI re-opened
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-35 POSTing to a container MUST yield a fresh URI re-opened ←
15:32:10 <stevebattle> wasn't me who said that
Steve Battle: wasn't me who said that ←
15:32:19 <cygri> s/(cygri please fill in your argument )/
15:32:49 <bblfish> Topic: Use Cases and requirements
15:33:14 <MacTed> s/SteveS and Stevebattle/SteveS and MacTed/
15:33:15 <bblfish> Arnaud: Steveb sadly missed the last afternoon of TPAC....
Arnaud Le Hors: Steveb sadly missed the last afternoon of TPAC.... ←
15:33:53 <bblfish> SteveS: the UCR use cases should be closer to the POWDER use cases
Steve Speicher: the UCR use cases should be closer to the POWDER use cases ←
15:34:23 <bblfish> SteveS: please let me know by mail if there is more I should do
Steve Battle: please let me know by mail if there is more I should do ←
15:34:56 <bblfish> stevebattle: looked at POWDER
Steve Battle: looked at POWDER ←
15:35:24 <oberger> URL of that one ?
Olivier Berger: URL of that one ? ←
15:35:30 <MacTed> s/SteveS: please let/stevebattle: please let/
15:35:32 <bblfish> ... I don't find POWDER to be particular clear about use cases - they seem to confuse use-cases and user stories
... I don't find POWDER to be particular clear about use cases - they seem to confuse use-cases and user stories ←
15:35:34 <cygri> q+
Richard Cyganiak: q+ ←
15:35:51 <oberger> http://www.w3.org/TR/powder-use-cases/
Olivier Berger: http://www.w3.org/TR/powder-use-cases/ ←
15:36:00 <bblfish> Arnaud: user stories should be moved after the use cases
Arnaud Le Hors: user stories should be moved after the use cases ←
15:36:26 <bblfish> stevebattle: some of the user stories need more curating, and not all of even quality
Steve Battle: some of the user stories need more curating, and not all of even quality ←
15:36:49 <bblfish> stevebattle: the original authors should try bringing them up to the same quality
Steve Battle: the original authors should try bringing them up to the same quality ←
15:37:05 <bblfish> stevebattle: I have added a link to the approriate use case in the document
Steve Battle: I have added a link to the approriate use case in the document ←
15:37:36 <bblfish> Arnaud: there is still a sense that the document needs a lot of work before it is publishing. Do you know what the group wants.
Arnaud Le Hors: there is still a sense that the document needs a lot of work before it is publishing. Do you know what the group wants. ←
15:37:42 <bblfish> stevebattle: yes, not sure what the group wants
Steve Battle: yes, not sure what the group wants ←
15:37:56 <bblfish> stevebattle: not much review of the use cases ( content ) themselves
Steve Battle: not much review of the use cases ( content ) themselves ←
15:38:07 <bblfish> stevebattle: would be good for people to review them
Steve Battle: would be good for people to review them ←
15:38:35 <bblfish> Arnaud: chicken and egg situation. let's see if we can get out of this deadlock
Arnaud Le Hors: chicken and egg situation. let's see if we can get out of this deadlock ←
15:39:03 <cygri> q?
Richard Cyganiak: q? ←
15:39:05 <bblfish> stevebattle: I have a meeting with steve s tomorrow, and then people can have a review over email after that
Steve Battle: I have a meeting with steve s tomorrow, and then people can have a review over email after that ←
15:39:20 <bblfish> Arnaud: send an e-mail to the mailing list when things have cleared
Arnaud Le Hors: send an e-mail to the mailing list when things have cleared ←
15:39:28 <bblfish> ?
? ←
15:39:55 <bblfish> xxx: lots of good information there and we could then remassage it and let the group know
xxx: lots of good information there and we could then remassage it and let the group know ←
15:40:12 <bblfish> Arnaud: where is the new content btw
Arnaud Le Hors: where is the new content btw ←
15:40:20 <bblfish> stevebattle: it is in the examples section
Steve Battle: it is in the examples section ←
15:40:49 <cygri> q-
Richard Cyganiak: q- ←
15:40:57 <bblfish> ... more the content of the examples, without presuming the specification . Arnaud you told me to aproach the document as you have never seen it before.
... more the content of the examples, without presuming the specification . Arnaud you told me to aproach the document as you have never seen it before. ←
15:41:13 <bblfish> Arnaud: it is indeed a challenge :-) It sounds like we have a plan
Arnaud Le Hors: it is indeed a challenge :-) It sounds like we have a plan ←
15:41:30 <bblfish> stevebattle: people can volunteer to co-edit
Steve Battle: people can volunteer to co-edit ←
15:41:32 <Arnaud> q?
Arnaud Le Hors: q? ←
15:41:41 <bblfish> Arnaud: yes, please reach out to steve
Arnaud Le Hors: yes, please reach out to steve ←
15:41:53 <bblfish> Topic: Test suite and validator
15:42:04 <dret> another possible guidance for UCR: if we end up with functionality in the spec that's *not* asked for in UCR, then technically that is not required in the spec because it wasn't asked for.
Erik Wilde: another possible guidance for UCR: if we end up with functionality in the spec that's *not* asked for in UCR, then technically that is not required in the spec because it wasn't asked for. ←
15:42:06 <bblfish> Arnaud: we have a page for this
Arnaud Le Hors: we have a page for this ←
15:42:16 <oberger> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Testing
Olivier Berger: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Testing ←
15:42:23 <oberger> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Validation
Olivier Berger: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Validation ←
15:42:38 <bblfish> Arnaud: there can be a dependency between these pages
Arnaud Le Hors: there can be a dependency between these pages ←
15:42:50 <stevebattle> q+
Steve Battle: q+ ←
15:43:02 <oberger> hasn't alexandre asked for 29th ?
Olivier Berger: hasn't alexandre asked for 26th ? ←
15:43:07 <bblfish> Arnaud: maybe we agree on a timeframe on when we close on this?
Arnaud Le Hors: maybe we agree on a timeframe on when we close on this? ←
15:43:19 <oberger> s/29th/26th/
15:43:30 <bblfish> Arnaud: ah yes we allready agreed on this
Arnaud Le Hors: ah yes we allready agreed on this ←
15:43:48 <Arnaud> ack stevebattle
Arnaud Le Hors: ack stevebattle ←
15:43:59 <bblfish> stevebattle: what level of input are you asking for
Steve Battle: what level of input are you asking for ←
15:44:15 <bblfish> Arnaud: not at the level of asking for tests, but looking for framework for the tests
Arnaud Le Hors: not at the level of asking for tests, but looking for framework for the tests ←
15:44:19 <oberger> the pages lack an introductory text
Olivier Berger: the pages lack an introductory text ←
15:44:45 <bblfish> bblfish: +1 for oberger
Henry Story: +1 for oberger ←
15:44:47 <Arnaud> q?
Arnaud Le Hors: q? ←
15:45:04 <bblfish> Topic: Access Control Use cases and Requirements
15:45:44 <bblfish> Ashok: I agree that access control is somewhat orthogonal to LData, and you are going to get lots of different styles of access control
Ashok Malhotra: I agree that access control is somewhat orthogonal to LData, and you are going to get lots of different styles of access control ←
15:46:01 <bblfish> ... depending on how the rdf is store and where it is stored and so on
... depending on how the rdf is store and where it is stored and so on ←
15:46:09 <bblfish> ... we can add some core examples
... we can add some core examples ←
15:46:25 <oberger> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/AccessControl
Olivier Berger: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/AccessControl ←
15:46:30 <bblfish> Ashok: how are the access control pages identified
Ashok Malhotra: how are the access control pages identified ←
15:46:34 <bblfish> q+
q+ ←
15:46:41 <bblfish> ah ok
ah ok ←
15:47:05 <bblfish> Ashok: henry (bblfish) can fill this out and so we can have the id and access control sections to fill it out
Ashok Malhotra: henry (bblfish) can fill this out and so we can have the id and access control sections to fill it out ←
15:47:06 <oberger> bblfish, has the meeting doodle given any result ?
Olivier Berger: bblfish, has the meeting doodle given any result ? ←
15:47:09 <Arnaud> ack bblfish
Arnaud Le Hors: ack bblfish ←
15:49:30 <oberger> is someone scribing ? ;)
Olivier Berger: is someone scribing ? ;) ←
15:49:54 <bblfish> Arnaud: henry can expand on WebID section
Arnaud Le Hors: henry can expand on WebID section ←
15:50:20 <bblfish> ... was expecting to go through a similar process as the other UCR
... was expecting to go through a similar process as the other UCR ←
15:50:34 <bblfish> ... people should add something to this document
... people should add something to this document ←
15:50:50 <bblfish> ... do we want to go through a laundry list of technoliogies
... do we want to go through a laundry list of technoliogies ←
15:50:57 <bblfish> ... or how does one go up
... or how does one go up ←
15:51:26 <bblfish> ... what I'd like to see the document that lists the use cases and requirements, and then later different techs that can implement those
... what I'd like to see the document that lists the use cases and requirements, and then later different techs that can implement those ←
15:51:28 <bblfish> bblfish: +1
Henry Story: +1 ←
15:51:28 <oberger> q+
Olivier Berger: q+ ←
15:52:21 <Arnaud> ack oberger
Arnaud Le Hors: ack oberger ←
15:52:21 <bblfish> ack olivier
ack olivier ←
15:53:16 <bblfish> oberger: is the ownership notion of container is something that one should address in this UCR? (ACL) who is the entitiy or organisation responsible for deletion/ownership of resources
Olivier Berger: is the ownership notion of container is something that one should address in this UCR? (ACL) who is the entitiy or organisation responsible for deletion/ownership of resources ←
15:53:29 <bblfish> q+
q+ ←
15:53:46 <deiu> I would just like to make a suggestion: since access control enforcement takes place on the LDP provider (where data is hosted), could we at least see if we can add identity to LDPC/R? Something along the lines of "acl:owner" for LDPC/R.
Andrei Sambra: I would just like to make a suggestion: since access control enforcement takes place on the LDP provider (where data is hosted), could we at least see if we can add identity to LDPC/R? Something along the lines of "acl:owner" for LDPC/R. ←
15:54:27 <bblfish> oberger: in terms of intellectual property: so if you want to complain for a bug, who do you ask?
Olivier Berger: in terms of intellectual property: so if you want to complain for a bug, who do you ask? ←
15:54:49 <stevebattle> Makes sense to think about resource centric ACLs
Steve Battle: Makes sense to think about resource centric ACLs ←
15:54:58 <dret> zakim, who's making noise?
Erik Wilde: zakim, who's making noise? ←
15:54:59 <bblfish> Arnaud: we need to list the use cases, so perhaps this should be in the document
Arnaud Le Hors: we need to list the use cases, so perhaps this should be in the document ←
15:55:08 <Zakim> dret, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: MacTed (36%), Arnaud (64%), bblfish (30%), oberger (50%)
Zakim IRC Bot: dret, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: MacTed (36%), Arnaud (64%), bblfish (30%), oberger (50%) ←
15:55:25 <bblfish> ... so whether the spec deals with this is somewhat orthogonal at the moment
... so whether the spec deals with this is somewhat orthogonal at the moment ←
15:55:35 <bblfish> .... expanded on granularity of access control
.... expanded on granularity of access control ←
15:55:47 <bblfish> ... in this area we need this level of access control
... in this area we need this level of access control ←
15:55:49 <bblfish> bblfish: +1
Henry Story: +1 ←
15:56:04 <bblfish> Arnaud: do we need a time framew for this or leave it open
Arnaud Le Hors: do we need a time framew for this or leave it open ←
15:56:06 <Arnaud> q?
Arnaud Le Hors: q? ←
15:56:13 <Arnaud> ack bblfish
Arnaud Le Hors: ack bblfish ←
15:56:30 <bblfish> Arnaud: lets leave it open, but... go ahead and add use cases
Arnaud Le Hors: lets leave it open, but... go ahead and add use cases ←
15:57:22 <bblfish> Arnaud: 3 minutes left
Arnaud Le Hors: 3 minutes left ←
15:57:23 <oberger> deiu, has your question on the ML be addressed wrt ACL ?
Olivier Berger: deiu, has your question on the ML be addressed wrt ACL ? ←
15:57:29 <bblfish> Topic: LDP specification
15:57:37 <deiu> oberger, yes, at least for now
Andrei Sambra: oberger, yes, at least for now ←
15:57:45 <oberger> deiu, :-)
Olivier Berger: deiu, :-) ←
15:57:52 <bblfish> SteveS: the only one that is outstanding is issue-25
Steve Speicher: the only one that is outstanding is ISSUE-25 ←
15:58:09 <bblfish> ... so I opened an action to make those changes as they were not small ( which action?)
... so I opened an action to make those changes as they were not small ( which action?) ←
15:58:21 <Ashok> q+
Ashok Malhotra: q+ ←
15:59:02 <bblfish> ... a number of comments on the spec, so I was going to take those editorial and type changes ... encourage the WG members to open those issues - or non WG to push WG members to do this
... a number of comments on the spec, so I was going to take those editorial and type changes ... encourage the WG members to open those issues - or non WG to push WG members to do this ←
15:59:05 <Arnaud> ack ashok
Arnaud Le Hors: ack ashok ←
15:59:23 <bblfish> Ashok: Steve with regeard to issue-7
Ashok Malhotra: Steve with regeard to ISSUE-7 ←
15:59:26 <bblfish> issue-7?
15:59:26 <trackbot> ISSUE-7 -- What operations are permittered on containers and how do they get invoked? -- open
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-7 -- What operations are permittered on containers and how do they get invoked? -- open ←
15:59:26 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/7
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/7 ←
16:00:07 <oberger> Ashok, +1
Olivier Berger: Ashok, +1 ←
16:00:20 <bblfish> Ashok: would it clearify things if ... ( ashok please fill in)
Ashok Malhotra: would it clearify things if ... ( ashok please fill in) ←
16:00:21 <stevebattle> q+
Steve Battle: q+ ←
16:00:55 <bblfish> Arnaud: indeed it would be nice to have some high level discussion of how containers would work.
Arnaud Le Hors: indeed it would be nice to have some high level discussion of how containers would work. ←
16:01:15 <oberger> and details on the impact on models in discussions
Olivier Berger: and details on the impact on models in discussions ←
16:01:19 <bblfish> Arnaud: how it works, what one can do to it, etc...
Arnaud Le Hors: how it works, what one can do to it, etc... ←
16:01:37 <stevebattle> q-
Steve Battle: q- ←
16:02:00 <bblfish> SteveS: issue-7 should be closed as it will be subsumed by issue-2x?
Steve Speicher: ISSUE-7 should be closed as it will be subsumed by ISSUE-2x? ←
16:02:23 <bblfish> Arnaud: we should leverage other models that exist, and it does not have to be in the spec.
Arnaud Le Hors: we should leverage other models that exist, and it does not have to be in the spec. ←
16:02:40 <bblfish> Ashok: it would help people if it were part of the spec
Ashok Malhotra: it would help people if it were part of the spec ←
16:02:51 <Arnaud> q?
Arnaud Le Hors: q? ←
16:02:52 <dret> if that helps, i could try to create a "framework" that would allow us to better compare and contrast various approaches? in the end, the spec maybe should maybe use that structure to explain what we're doing and where it differs from existing models.
Erik Wilde: if that helps, i could try to create a "framework" that would allow us to better compare and contrast various approaches? in the end, the spec maybe should maybe use that structure to explain what we're doing and where it differs from existing models. ←
16:03:01 <bblfish> Arnaud: we are out of time, and we will leave it at that
Arnaud Le Hors: we are out of time, and we will leave it at that ←
16:03:37 <bblfish> Arnaud: we are tackling this problem piecemeal without a clear idea what a general model is
Arnaud Le Hors: we are tackling this problem piecemeal without a clear idea what a general model is ←
16:03:50 <bblfish> q+
q+ ←
16:03:58 <dret> +1, the model needs to be crystal-clear.
Erik Wilde: +1, the model needs to be crystal-clear. ←
16:04:05 <deiu> +1 for that
Andrei Sambra: +1 for that ←
<bblfish> bblfish: at the meeting Tim talked about the file system, this is something everybody understands
Henry Story: at the meeting Tim talked about the file system, this is something everybody understands ←
16:04:37 <dret> thanks, Arnaud: file systems are very complicated and can behave very differently.
Erik Wilde: thanks, Arnaud: file systems are very complicated and can behave very differently. ←
16:04:48 <bblfish> Arnaud: but file systems vary, they are different from system to system, and there symbolic links
Arnaud Le Hors: but file systems vary, they are different from system to system, and there symbolic links ←
16:05:01 <SteveS> I will propose something to the list in coming days
Steve Speicher: I will propose something to the list in coming days ←
16:05:01 <Zakim> -JohnArwe
Zakim IRC Bot: -JohnArwe ←
16:05:02 <bblfish> Arnaud: ok thanks all, see you next week
Arnaud Le Hors: ok thanks all, see you next week ←
16:05:11 <Zakim> -Ashok_Malhotra
Zakim IRC Bot: -Ashok_Malhotra ←
16:05:16 <Ashok> Thanks, SteveS!
Ashok Malhotra: Thanks, SteveS! ←
16:05:43 <stevebattle> bye
Steve Battle: bye ←
16:05:45 <oberger> see ya
Olivier Berger: see ya ←
16:05:46 <bblfish> Arnaud: mailing list has been closed to deal with the IP issues. There may also be too many cooks in kitchen
Arnaud Le Hors: mailing list has been closed to deal with the IP issues. There may also be too many cooks in kitchen ←
16:05:47 <dret> thanks!
Erik Wilde: thanks! ←
16:05:50 <Zakim> -SteveS
Zakim IRC Bot: -SteveS ←
16:05:52 <Zakim> -MacTed
Zakim IRC Bot: -MacTed ←
16:05:53 <Zakim> -cygri
Zakim IRC Bot: -cygri ←
16:05:53 <Zakim> -roger
Zakim IRC Bot: -roger ←
16:05:55 <Zakim> -dret
Zakim IRC Bot: -dret ←
16:05:57 <Zakim> -Arnaud
Zakim IRC Bot: -Arnaud ←
16:05:59 <bblfish> Arnaud: meeting adjourned
Arnaud Le Hors: meeting adjourned ←
16:05:59 <oberger> deiu, your turn is next ;)
Olivier Berger: deiu, your turn is next ;) ←
16:06:03 <MacTed> trackbot, end meeting
Ted Thibodeau: trackbot, end meeting ←
16:06:03 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, list attendees ←
16:06:04 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been dret, MacTed, Arnaud, bblfish, SteveS, SteveBattle, oberger, +44.208.573.aaaa, JohnArwe, roger, nandana, Ashok_Malhotra, cygri
Zakim IRC Bot: As of this point the attendees have been dret, MacTed, Arnaud, bblfish, SteveS, SteveBattle, oberger, +44.208.573.aaaa, JohnArwe, roger, nandana, Ashok_Malhotra, cygri ←
16:06:05 <bblfish> Zakim: meeting adj
Zakim IRC Bot: meeting adj ←
16:06:08 <bblfish> Zakim: meeting adjourned
Zakim IRC Bot: meeting adjourned ←
16:06:12 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, please draft minutes ←
16:06:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/12-ldp-minutes.html trackbot
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/12-ldp-minutes.html trackbot ←
16:06:13 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, bye ←
16:06:13 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see no action items ←
16:06:13 <Zakim> -bblfish
Zakim IRC Bot: -bblfish ←
16:06:15 <Zakim> -oberger
Zakim IRC Bot: -oberger ←
Formatted by CommonScribe