presence: many, many, people

review prep

<scribe> ACTION: felix to check M24 report - also one for whole project needed? [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/11/25-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-571 - Check m24 report - also one for whole project needed? [on Felix Sasaki - due 2013-12-02].

<scribe> ACTION: felix to nudge to get C forms filled by 15 January [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/11/25-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-572 - Nudge to get c forms filled by 15 january [on Felix Sasaki - due 2013-12-02].

<scribe> ACTION: felix to nudge everybody to make M24 report updates by Dec. 15, in word doc sent around Mo. 25 November, with change marked and send it to felix [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/11/25-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-573 - Nudge everybody to make m24 report updates by dec. 15, in word doc sent around mo. 25 november, with change marked and send it to felix [on Felix Sasaki - due 2013-12-02].

<scribe> ACTION: felix to reserve preparation meeting room [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/11/25-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-574 - Reserve preparation meeting room [on Felix Sasaki - due 2013-12-02].

date will be 26 feb, review prep meeting starting 25 noon

physical attend: dave, david / reinhard, jirka, tadej, stephan / somebody from cocomore, pedro, felix

remote: jan, yves, arle (possible physical attendance)

slides + agenda from M12 review are here http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Rome-lux-prep#Agenda_for_Luxembourg

felix: align review prep with m24 report: people responsible for a WP will prepare slides and gather input from people responsible for a task

WP1 - felix WP2 - Dave WP3 - Cocomore WP4 - Pedro WP5 - Ankit / John WP6 - Arle+Felix+Nieves

WP1 (30 min) WP2 (15) WP3 (1 hour)

dave: when writing the M24 report make sure you have addressed all the comments from M12 review

WP4 (40 min) WP5 (30) WP6 .30 1/2 min)

s/WP3 .1/WP3 (1.5)

WP2 - XLIFF mapping, ITS ontology

s/WP2 .15)/WP2 (30)

slide template for review v

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/att-0156/slides-template-v1.pptx

dave: slot for wrap up: liaisons with other projects, uptake of ITS2, sustainability of work
... will cover the ITS IG in WP2

http://www.w3.org/International/logos/Overview.html

https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Team/multilingualweb-lt-partners/2013Nov/0013.html

lt-web deliverables

david: update of D3.1.2 and D5.1.2 by end of next week

pedro: D3.2.2 is done
... D3.2.3 needs input from phil
... D3.2.1 again phil

<scribe> ACTION: felix to check with phil about D3.2.1 and D3.2.3 and to submit D3.2.2 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/11/25-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action05]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-575 - Check with phil about d3.2.1 and d3.2.3 and to submit d3.2.2 [on Felix Sasaki - due 2013-12-02].

<scribe> ACTION: felix to submit D5.1.1 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/11/25-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action06]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-576 - Submit d5.1.1 [on Felix Sasaki - due 2013-12-02].

felix: subcontractors are also done, just bluegriffon needs final output and apperance in public bluegriffon release

usage scenarios doc

http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/WD-mlw-metadata-us-impl-20130307/

felix: is it OK with everybody to contineu work on that in the interest group?

dave: makes sense, otherwise we have to finish it

discussion on how to continue with http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/WD-mlw-metadata-us-impl-20130307/ - have only wiki and not publish a new version of the doc, or continue to work on it in IG

<scribe> ACTION: felix to check process of moving document mlw-metadata from WG to IG [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/11/25-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action07]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-577 - Check process of moving document mlw-metadata from wg to ig [on Felix Sasaki - due 2013-12-02].

http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Madrid_November_2013_f2f#Monday_25th

christian joines the meeting

christian: usage doc is valuable, we need to make sure that the status is well known
... as of writing it was a snapshot
... two ways of moving forward:

1) say it is historic

2) make it a living doc, which goes modified when implementations are changed

3) make it a versioned doc. saying: now that its2 is out we see what is valid for its2

scribe: and in 2014 we target an additional update

<jnelson> +

olaf-michael: living doc mai be useful
... now there will be naturally a let down of activity
... in one year or so peopel will go back and say "what is happening"
... for that a living doc is good

dave: building it up on the wiki and visibily publish in "tr" space
... how often would we generate the "tr" doc?

felix: depends on the group

serge: do you plan to extend implementation scope for its2?
... look for further implementations?
... at this point the industry needs to understand: how can its2 be implemented?
... we could run the implementation "discovery" project in CRISP
... to connect research with actual production work

s/21/2/

crisp and its21

serge: crisp is a program in gala
... idea of crisp is to involve people as experts
... the industry is short on r&d effort
... experts figh with day 2 day work vs. research
... crisp should give the opportunity on how to implement new technology in their work
... surveys are about sharing knowledge
... crisp is something differently
... idea is to engage people
... e.g. to provide people with info about new technologies that they can use in their work
... crisp is about to connect research and real world
... I will run an implementation project - discovery to find the place of new technology in the day2day work
... we could do dissamination not only be announcements
... saying "how about thinking to use it"
... it is really starting to get tracktion
... on ISO work 20 people have been spending time to provide feedback
... so crisp really works

tadej: is this related to LT advisory platform?

serge: lt advisory is just one of the projects

<chriLi> +q

serge: crisp is a bridge for people, industry players etc. to get engaged
... w3c and oasis are concerned with too many industries
... crisp is particualry engaged for companies to safe on r&d
... lt advisory is one of the projects

dave: a link to the ITS IG
... between the IG and crisp
... having some documentation, more details for use cases doc

serge: for its2 there is a community, very lifely
... does not make sense to create another forum
... but crisp can be used to create another forum for its2
... the LSPs don't know what its2 and w3c are
... no need to dubplicate the groups IMO

dave: how would that work?

serge: an "implementation discovery" project
... saying: there has been work done: x,y,z
... do you think that this is applicable with your clients?
... this will be a win win situation for everybody

tadej: how is the process to make this work?

serge: first step: formulate its2 "core" info that is understandable for production people
... put "its2" into a plane language for head of production, solution architects, ...

felix: is that like the white paper material that pedro mentioned?

pedro: yes, but there are three levels of communication:

1) business persons

2) explaining why its2 is useful. we discussed about making a series of short articles. maybe we can do the same approach here

pedro: maybe we can send initial information, e.g. short description of every data category every week
... that can be published on the web site
... the spec itself is hard to read

3) supporting for implementers. Once the decision maker goes for this and 2) understand the implementations, the implementers need technical support

tadej: for the 1st level, maybe not even talk about data categegories

chriLi: serge, did explanation of crisp
... saying "do we plan to extend implementation scope for its2"
... my understanding is: now we want to get more and more implementations
... thinking is correlated
... e.g. okapi and other impl. that have been created via EU funding: they are pretty cool, the impl. only needs to be used
... there is only adoption needed
... in addition we would benefit from new implementations
... e.g. in more content creation environments
... the discussion you had after serge's initial question was: how do we get here?
... serge offered crisp for supporting that
... that is great
... my hope would be that we would be able to realize possible synergies
... e.g. if gala runs an intro section - gala would contact someone from the ig e.g. about re-use of material

serge: sure, we are in agreement
... a pretty common implementation discovery project
... obtaining material, providing business like explanations etc.

dave: pedro broke it down well and the three lines of action

pedro: we have a lot of material, this is about compiling the material
... many LSPs use third party things
... so LSPs will implement ITS2 if their clients demand it
... compiling the deliverables, presentations, ... we have good material here

olaf-michael: for a real success there will be 20, 30, ... LSPs finding some benefit in implementing ITS2
... it helps to see: other implementers have implemented things

pedro: a pitty that phil Ritchie is not here
... he gave me in bled he gave me a real use case of ITS2
... they had some problems with a client. They suggested to solve the problem with ITS2
... that is effective for production people. They need to see how they can use it for real clients
... if the final client does not annotate content with ITS2, we won't achieve nothing

serge: software developers and CMS implementers are targets for ITS2 implementations
... there are at least 1200 CMS developers
... next step would be: why should CMS developers implement ITS2?
... they are well-known to be reluctant to implement things related to translation?
... after that others will follow

stephan: cat tool side is as important

serge: CMS is the primary area of interest

dave: does crisp have visibility and influence on this?

serge: yes
... but we need the language for these people

pedro: we discussed this in the FEISGILT event
... one conclusion was: for CMS people, multilingual is just a feature
... we may have to break down the feature

david: need to be possible in content formats like DocBook or DITA
... if DITA has a standard usage of ITS2 it is more likely to get implementations

pedro: some digestable information that is not only about ITS2, but about multilingual CMS in general

serge: can we say: if you do not use ITS2, you are not compliant to HTML5?

david: you would have to say "not HTML5+ITS2 compliant"

tadeJ: say: don't hack something yourself

<chriLi> I have to leave ...

david: CMS producers are both big guys but also small companies

pedro: big actors need to lead the process
... small actors don't have the bandwidth to introduce more complexity
... game first with the big guys

stephan: in CMS world, people don't see that translation is a process
... we need to point out that translation is a process, not the multilingual feature
... what would be the benefit for the decision maker if you don't talk about translation process?

pedro: you safe money, you safe time, and you improve quality

jan: software developers, tool makers - there is some base level
... who does that first and creates leadership
... if I look at developers in various ecosystems, think about they need to be competitive
... a developer wants his product to be locally relevant and reach more markets
... if there are leaders who can say: with ITS2 you can reach the markets with more accuracy
... having the data re-wrapped which looks like an SDK, it will help to implement
... I do believe that there is a business case
... important to get xliff 2.0 finished and then ITS2 aligned

felix: mapping of xliff 2.0 and ITS2 is an important item

pedro: EU web sites are an important business case

olaf-michael: please consider strasbourg april 2014 - meeting of language technology services and EU, in Jamcatt
... will be a great place to meet IT people of European bodies involved
... 23-25 April, in Strasbourg

This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.138  of Date: 2013-04-25 13:59:11  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

FAILED: s/WP3 .1/WP3 (1.5)/
FAILED: s/WP2 .15)/WP2 (30)/
Succeeded: s/WP6 (23/WP6 .30/
Succeeded: s/breakdown/let down/
FAILED: s/21/2/
No ScribeNick specified.  Guessing ScribeNick: fsasaki
Inferring Scribes: fsasaki
Present: many many people Yves omstefanov swalter davelewis leroy pnietoca felix pedro John mdelolmo Ankit jan Milan
Agenda: http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Madrid_November_2013_f2f#Monday_25th
Got date from IRC log name: 25 Nov 2013
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2013/11/25-mlw-lt-minutes.html
People with action items: felix