Meetings Next Week

Shawn: In terms of the illustrations, do we need a Wednesday meeting for that group?

AnnaBelle: Probably not

Shawn: And what about the ATAG group?

Sharron: I think we will be fine if everyone reviews what is currently on the wiki. I will encourage that off list

Shawn: OK but please do it on the list with a note that it is ATAG promo
... would be good if we try to meet next week on our regular Friday schedule since we have such a small group today and lots of documents to review.

Sharron: Aren't you on holiday then?

Shawn: I think I can make it work. So the plan is to NOT meet Thursday and yes meet Friday

Easy Checks Illustrations

<shawn> example http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/eval/checks#illustrationeg1

Sharron: May I just say how well these are coming along AnnaBelle, you are great.

<shawn> testing http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Easy_Checks_-_Illustrations#Illustration_Testing

Shawn: Shall we send out email to the entire group, those who have not been on the calls to look and approve what we have all agreed to?
... Paul, can you add the comments that you made previously about using IE, add them to the wiki page that is focused on this.

<paulschantz> my comments are here: http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Easy_Checks_-_Illustrations#Version_8

Shawn: And can you take a look at all the zooming, shrink width etc and comment.

Paul: Yes I did check all that and it looks great from IE 7 through IE 11

Shawn: AnnaBelle, can you send what to test for and I will send to the list?

AnnaBelle: Yes I will be happy to

Shawn: If you let me know through IRC it is more reliable for me than email
... anything else?

AnnaBelle: I think we are so close to wrapping this up. I don't think there are many more issues to resolve.

<shawn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Easy_Checks_-_Illustrations#Illustration_Goals

Shawn: Yes, the parameters have been finalized, I feel like this is done. Next then is to jot down the goal for each image as they are developed
... AnnaBelle can you write up the goals for each image?

AnnaBelle: Yes what we have now are general parameters and next we will need to define what we want to do with each?
... there will be a few that will be tricky about what they are trying to accomplish.

Paul: Are we assigning a specific person to make the illustrations? I have some ideas.

Shawn: You are absolutely welcome to contribute to that. AnnaBelle is leading and we appreciate your work. Thank you! Next steps are to define the illustrations, then coordinate between the artists.

Easy Checks

<shawn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Easy_Checks#Completion_Plan

Shawn: Thanks for all the input and last week's review. Anthony, have you completed your review of Easy Checks?

Anthony: Yes I am done
... can I give my feedback again as we finalize?

Shawn: We had hoped to wrap it up by last week - that was our deadline for comments.

Anthony: What is the deadline for publishing?

Shawn: No hard and fast deadline but our hope is for it to be complete by year's end.

Shadi: I was at a kickoff project at EIII with the plan to develop a Fix the Web kind of thing where users can do their own checking. I showed them the Easy Checks and they loved them.

Shawn: We had talked about renaming the Plain Text Veiw. Any thoughts about this?
... shall we brainstorm?

<shawn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Easy_Checks#Plain_Content_View

Sharron: What is it that people don't like about the current name"

Shawn: People don't like plain text because it has connotations of text only which has negative commotations. Calling it Plain Content doesn't move it far enough away from that.

<shawn> How some people "see" the web page

Shawn: one idea was "How Some People "See" the Web Page"

Shadi: You are trying to find a non-jargony way to say linearize?

Shawn: It is more than that, because it involves CSS as well

Shadi: I think you are revealing structure

<paulschantz> how about "structure without styling"

Sharron: Yes that was one I liked - the Bare Bones view. But that may be too slangy

Bim: Table structure is not maintained when the page is linearized so structure doesn't really work. I like Bare Bones as well

Shadi: If a data table is well structured, it linearizes properly

Bim: But all tables are linearized and data tables will not make sense. So the structured view does not really make sense in that case. It will confuse people.

Shadi: But we will be lineraizing all content and well formed tables will do so logically

Shawn: And we explicitly exclude data tables in the body of the Easy Check section

Sharron: But to use "Structural View" regardless of disclaimer will confuse people

<shadi> [[Unstyled View]]

Shawn: What do we think of "How Some People "See" the web page?

<shadi> [[Check for Progressive Enhancement]]

AnnaBelle: My preference is for Bare Bones as well but the subtitle could be that

Paul: We are thinking of the section heading?

Shawn: Yes, and all the others are very technical and specific

<shadi> [[Check How the Page is Built]]

<shadi> [[Under the Hood View]]

Paul: But when we talk about looking at a page withoput style and in a linear fashion, How some people "see" it, it is a good and fairly accurate way to describe it

Shgarron: I like Shadi's Check How the Page is Built

<shadi> [[Check How the Page is Coded]]

Sharron: very direct, I like it.

<shadi> [[Check How the Page is Structured]]

<shadi> [[Scaffold View]]

<shadi> [[Check Page Foundations]]

<shadi> [[Linearized View]]

<shadi> [[Page Foundations View]]

<shadi> [[from Bim: Page Formation]]

<shadi> [[from Shawn: Backbone]]

[[Skeletal]]

<shawn> Alternative View

<shawn> Alternate View

[[Bare Bones]]

<shawn> Naked Order

<paulschantz> conveying separation of style from structure in a simple non-technical way isn't easy!

Shadi: Linearize is good. It helps people make sense of it since it is put in context.

Bim: Could we make it less technical and simply say Linear View?

<shadi> [[from Bim: Linear View]]

Sharron: +1

<paulschantz> I'm hesitant to +1 any of these because none of them is perfect

Bim: Could we not have a one-liner underneath to expand our less than perfect title?

Shawn: If we need to we could but none of the others have that.

Bim: The one-liner could be How Some People See the page

Anthony: What is the point of this? are we trying to remove images, layout, and styles? Do we say what is left out?

Shawn: We want to identify what is it that we are checking?

Anthony: I am with Shadi, reveal the structure of the page. The atomic view of the page

<shadi> [[from Anthony: Atomic View]]

<paulschantz> again, the concept is well-explained in the body of the text.

<shadi> [[Order View]]

<shawn> Content Order

<shadi> [[+1 for Linear View as well]]

Shawn: Linear View does not take into account all the other aspects of what is being revealed.
... Similarly to Contrast is the fact that Linear View is a gentle way to teach them a term - linearize - that tehy may come across later on.

Shadi: And the body does use linerize and that is the main issue that is addressed in this section

<shawn> Sharron: X-Ray View

Anthony: In linearizing the page, it does not account for the other aspects of the removal of style and color and layout

Shawn: What about the idea of using that as a tile and explain about turning off the other things in the body?

<my9pv> linearize bare bone view

<shadi> +1 for X-Ray View

Bim: I like the connotation of looking beneath the surface at the underlying structure

<my9pv> linearize X-ray view

AnnaBelle: I have negative associations with XRay, not comfortable with it.

<shawn> X-Ray Vision

Shawn: Does that help - if it is X-Ray Vision take away the negative connotation?

AnnaBelle: Yes it is Superman and childhood

Anthony: Maybe people will understand they are looking at the structure as it is.
... will users visualize that without changing the structure they can view the underneath part of the page as it is

<shawn> Linear X-Ray View

<shawn> sharron: deconstruction

The Deconstructed Page

<shawn> Bim: Disassembled view

<shawn> linear plain view -- plain linear view --> replace "p[lain"

<shadi> [[Base View]]

<AnnaBelle> Pared down view

<shawn> Sharron: Core

<shawn> Bim: +1

<shawn> Anthony: +1 for core

Bim: Core[Linear] View

<shawn> Simple Linear View, Basic Linear View

<shawn> Bim: Stripped Linear View

<shawn> Unstyled Linear view

Back to Basics

<Bim> +1 to unstyled linear view

<shawn> Linear Unstyled View

<shawn> Linear Basic View

<paulschantz> +0.5

<my9pv> +1 to unstyled linear view

Evaluation Tools DataBase Rejig

<shawn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Evaluation_tools#User_stories

Shawn: We are in process of redoing this resource...Bim over to you

Bim: The list that we have now is out of date. We want to update it and figure out how to get user the tools that will be of most use to them We have started a list of potential users
... looking at the user stories, we'd like your input

Shadi: What we are trying to do is collect some of the different scenarios of why someone would come here, what will it do for them, what will they be looking for? No prioritizations, just your ideas.
... next we will identify primary targets, secondary etc. From that we will design the tools list

<my9pv> done

<scribe> done

AnnaBelle: I keep tripping on the actual division of the roles because I have so much troupble with this in my professional life. That people consider themselves to be a back-end developer, a front-end developer, etc
... a highly skilled front-end developer will be aware of accessibility if they are any good. Web site designer tend to be graphic artists who know next to nothing aobut the way the web actually works

Shadi: I heard three points: Defining more clearly what we mean by developer (front end, etc); second is there a differentiation between awareness and skills?;and third is the categorization between primary and scondary audiences. Should be more geared toward front end

AnnaBelle: Yes designers almost always will need to work with someone who understands code in order to be an accessible designer
... to get the whole picture. They often come up with comps that are nearly impossible to implement in an accessible fashion

Paul: On large projects you may have someone who is an interaction designer, how thinks chage when they are activated, etc

Shadi: A proposal for the group, perhaps we move away from trying to categorize by roles and overlapping roles. Can we be specific to the task rather than the role. I am trying to do this - define the color palette
... for example
... it is helpful perhaps to think about the role but for tool use, focus on task and independent of who is looking for managing that task.

Shawn: So rather than think about who is looking for the tool, it is better to focus on what is the task to be completed

Shadi: We are at an early stage of formulating and making requirements for the tools list, so please send your thoughts

<paulschantz> it would be easy to add additional tasks under each existing user type

Tutorials Design

<shawn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/

Sharron: I thought I had asked her for what you wanted

Shawn: You may have asked for that but she jumped beyond that
... to remind everyone, Bim had done a basic design of navigation scheme that we liked. We had talked about finding someone to complete and polish the visual design. The volunteer jumped to the idea of a complete redesign. How do we feel about that?

<paulschantz> yes, what's broken?

Shadi: What is broken from their perspective? What needed to be fixed? They may have a great idea that we have not thought about?

Shawn: We should check in with them first and be sure we don't send them on a wild goose chase.

<AnnaBelle> I'm concerned this could be a huge time sink for us

AnnaBelle: If they come up with something that is radically different, it may be a whole different model that needs analysis.
... we can say that if you are changing something beyond the basics we need to approve in advance

Sharron: I think we just need to talk with them before we worry about it too much.

Shawn: We could use the time that we have reserved for the ATAG outreach call

AnnaBelle: Could I join the call?

Shawn: Yes absolutely...and Shadi?

Shadi: I don't think my participation is critical but I will try.
... the Tutorials will be really important resources for a long time, so anlaysis and input should be welcome and we can decide that when we know more.

<shawn> +1 to all these perspectives :-)

AnnaBelle: So if the long term importance of it is such, we should spend the time

Shawn: Sharron, will you try to schedule the call? as early as possible for them
... or a Doodle call?

Shadi: I don't think it is such a critical meeting, schedule it as you are able and if I don't manage to join it will be OK

ATAG Outreach

Sharron: I have posted a draft of the Elevator pitch and welcome input.

<paulschantz> search "Consider creation of new support documents "

<Sharron >http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Outreach_for_ATAG_2.0#Review_Existing_Support_Documents

Sharron: And I would ask everyone to keep the questions in the back of their minds, post contacts as they occur to you, make comments as it is convenient. Remembering that this is not going to come to full outreach status until we have the testing protocals and processes in place and can ask people to implement and have testing capability to validate

Upcoming reviews

<shawn> UAAG - Comments due 16 Dec

<shawn> Media Accessibility User Requirements

<shawn> WCAG-EM

<shawn> Guideance for Evaluation Tool Developers

Shawn: Soonest deadline is UAAG. Ideally we will have a draft of those next week. Our focus is how eay is the document to understand, to use, not the technical specs

Sharron: I volunteer Andrew
... And I will too in solidarity with Andrew

<shawn> previous review: UAAG - Comments due 16 Dec

<shawn> Media Accessibility User Requirements

<shawn> WCAG-EM

<shawn> Guideance for Evaluation Tool Developers

<shawn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/UAAG_review

Shawn: I will go through and shift down the stuff that is already processed and add new review at the top

<shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/WD-AERT/ED-AERT

Shawn: And note tht other documents are coming up for review so gird your loins and be ready for battle

Shadi: WCAG-EM will be ready for final review before publication, we will publish the disposition of comments etc We shuld coordinate a deadline for final review

Shawn: And send email to entire list

Shadi: Sitting in front of the fireplace, the turkey is cooking and Mom is reading....WCAG-EM (!)

Shawn: ...thanks all, no shortage of work...appreciate all your effort. have a great weekend and a happy thanksgiving, but we will meet next week anyway