<Gus> trackbot, start meeting

<trackbot> Date: 30 October 2013

<trackbot> Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference

<trackbot> Date: 30 October 2013

<Gus> zaki, pick a scribe

yep

<scribe> scribe: yvesr

<PatH> Congrats to Peter

congrats: )

Gus: pfps got an award at ISWC last week in Sydney

<pfps> minutes look good

RESOLUTION: accept minutes from last week

Reviewing action items

<gavinc> Claiming victory with ericP on ACTION-293

<gavinc> ACTION-293?

<trackbot> ACTION-293 -- Gavin Carothers to Update turtle ed to match published turtle cr document -- due 2013-09-18 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/293

<pfps> gavin: can you put something somewhere showing success for action-293

Gus: there's a telecon next week, back to normal time schedule
... before the 7th of January, we have 7 teleconferences left

<PatH> :-/

Gus: tomorrow morning we have the transition call for JSON-LD
... I just want to check the status of the documents

markus: I didn't create the static version yet, but I can do that after the meeting

sandro: let's wait until after the meeting in case they are changes coming from that meeting

Gus: the same holds for pfps and PatH, for concepts
... if we can do that tomororw, then we can send them on Friday to the webmaster

<pfps> what are the official steps to get a static version??

<PatH> pfps and PatH are doing Semantics

Gus: We can stop talking about ISSUE-155

<pfps> OK by me

<PatH> OK

Gus: let's move on

Test-suites

Gus: where are we wrt test suites and implementations

pfps: The semantics test suite have been updated
... We need a volunteer for checking RDF entailment tests

sandro: I don't think I volunteered to do that

pfps: It was on the list of things to be done

sandro: Michael Schneider mentioned he had a bunch of tests from years ago, which would be good RDF semantics tests
... he had a reasoner which could be considered as an implementation

pfps: I'll take an action to contact him

<scribe> ACTION: pfps to contact Michael about RDF semantics tests [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/30-rdf-wg-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-315 - Contact michael about rdf semantics tests [on Peter Patel-Schneider - due 2013-11-06].

Gus: what potential implementation for semantics do we have?

pfps: really we want ones that already exist
... there must be a document on that somewhere

sandro: you mean real world examples?

pfps: given sparql 1.1 has an entailement regime, they must have entailment checkers as well
... There must be an implementation report for SPARQL 1.1
... I think that's the way to go

<sandro> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/implementations/#sparql11-entailment

sandro: Here is the implementation report
... Lots of green, lots of red
... I don't know which entailment regime those are

pfps: I'll check what the situation is wrt implementation

PatH: there is something in there, which checks that if you query a dataset you do match things in the default graph
... which might be useful to have

Gus: The timeline for this is November

pfps: The amount of effort to run these tests should be minimal

Gus: question for gavinc wrt TriG test suites

gavinc: The suites are in good shape
... We have 3/4 implementations already

gkellogg: I started one for n-triples
... I could do the same for n-quads and TriG

Gus: That's fine
... Most of the test suite work we'll need to do will be on semantics

Turtle

Gus: the implementation report seems to be in good shape
... the main issue is about comments
... How are we on the issues?

<ericP> Turtle CR comments

ericP: Going down the list
... proposed means that there is a proposed response that hasn't been sent out yet
... I want WG approval before sending them out

<ericP> PROPOSED: addres TCR1 and 2 with http://www.w3.org/mid/20131002122510.GC1493@w3.org

<pfps> +1

<gavinc> +1

<gkellogg> +1

<Gus> +1

+1

<ivan> +1

<ericP> ＋１

<markus> +1

<Arnaud> +1

<ericP> RESOLVED: addres TCR1 and 2 with http://www.w3.org/mid/20131002122510.GC1493@w3.org

<AZ> +1

<pfps> +1

<ericP> PROPOSED: addres TCR3 with http://www.w3.org/mid/20131002124541.GD1493@w3.org

<pfps> +1

<Souri> +1

<gavinc> +1

<Arnaud> +1

<gavinc> P_NAME ;)

<gkellogg> +1

<markus> +1

+1

<AZ> +1

<ericP> +1

<ericP> RESOLVED: addres TCR3 with http://www.w3.org/mid/20131002124541.GD1493@w3.org

<PatH> +1 sorry

ericP: 7 needs a bit of discussion - what should the constructor in the parsing rule say about parsing strings?
... typing it with xsd:string or leaving it plain

PatH: There's no such thing as a plain literal?

<davidwood> Right - it should make an xsd:string

<davidwood> +1

ericP: OK, so we can construct it as an xsd:string

gavinc: The first draft of Turtle was out before we made that decision - this is left over

<ericP> ACTION: ericP to see that parsing rules in Turtle map plain literal syntax to literal constructor of type xsd:string [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/30-rdf-wg-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-316 - See that parsing rules in turtle map plain literal syntax to literal constructor of type xsd:string [on Eric Prud'hommeaux - due 2013-11-06].

ericP: It is possible the document is already correct - the comment might have been on an earlier version

<gavinc> The literal has a lexical form of the first rule argument, String, and either a language tag of LANGTAG or a datatype IRI of iri, depending on which rule matched the input. if neither a language tag nor a datatype IRI is provided, the literal has a datatype of xsd:string.

<AndyS> And NT, NQ, TriG? RDF/XML?

<ericP> ACTION: ericP to respond to TCR8 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/30-rdf-wg-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-317 - Respond to tcr8 [on Eric Prud'hommeaux - due 2013-11-06].

<AndyS> (not clear that in the parsing rules is the best place - rather in the formation of the abstract data model - then catches every syntax)

ericP: 9 needs to be fixed in respec
... 10, we need to refer to the current RDF-CONCEPTS - respec should take care of that

gavinc: I'll do that

ericP: 12 was an objection to SPARQL PREFIX and BASE
... 13 was a comment was on a few things, including normalising bnodes for diff
... Should we have a quick resolution to not come up with a normalised form?

gavinc: It means that we can just compare strings to check the tests

<PatH> +NO

<ericP> PROPOSED: WG will not create a normalized NTriples bnode form for RDF test reference graphs

<ivan> +1

<Arnaud> +1

<gkellogg> +1

<pfps> +1

<ericP> +1

<PatH> +1

+1

<gavinc> +1

<Gus> +1

<AZ> +1

<AndyS> +1

<markus> +1

<ericP> RESOLVED: WG will not create a normalized NTriples bnode form for RDF test reference graphs

<gavinc> same thing ;)

ericP: the next three are resolved
... 19 and 20 are about missing links to things
... we'll need to deal with them before next transition
... 23 is about IRI production
... we didn't copy the whole production from RFC3987

gavinc: It was intentional

<ericP> PROPOSED: WG will not copy the RFC3987 production for IRIs into Turtle

<gkellogg> +1

<ivan> +1

<ericP> +1

<PatH> +1

<pfps> +1

<davidwood> +1

<Souri> +1

<markus> +1

<AndyS> +1

<AZ> +1

<gavinc> +1

+1

<ericP> RESOLVED: WG will not copy the RFC3987 production for IRIs into Turtle

<gavinc> turtle-bnf.html

<ericP> ACTION: ericP to edit turtle-bnf.html to add quoted characters and respond with an affirmative on TCR34 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/30-rdf-wg-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-318 - Edit turtle-bnf.html to add quoted characters and respond with an affirmative on tcr34 [on Eric Prud'hommeaux - due 2013-11-06].

ericP: One of the example wasn't valid Turtle - edited and committed a fix for that

<gavinc> +1 to not doing versions

ericP: about 38, I think I might be able to convince the commenter it's OK
... about 33, adding a media type would mean another CR

sandro: i understood his comment as not being a change to the standard
... How do I mediate between old Turtle and new Turtle?

gavinc: there are quite a few grammars around that aren't compatible with each other
... so there's no such thing as 'old turtle'

ericP: In our communication with the outside world, we need a way to name this new standard

Gus: Makes sense to call it 1.1

gavinc: Dave Beckett's Turtle isn't the same as the W3C submission

sandro: 1.0 is a combination of all the specs and all mainstream parsers that are out there

ericP: we can do an adequate job by saying that 1.1 is what we specify

<ericP> PROPOSED: the string identifier for the version of Turtle published by the RDF WG is "Turtle 1.1"

+1

<gkellogg> +1

<Gus> +1

<ericP> +1

<AZ> +1

<ivan> 0

<pfps> +1.1

<Souri> +1

<gavinc> -0

<sandro> Formally speaking we might call them "RDF 1.1 <foo>" like "RDF 1.1 TriG" which might be informallr abreviated to "TriG 1.1"

<markus> +0

<Arnaud> +1

<davidwood> +1

<sandro> +0.75

<PatH> +1

<davidwood> However, I do like sandro's suggestion.

sandro: technically it's 'rdf 1.1 turtle'

<gavinc> +1 to RDF 1.1 Turtle

<markus> always finds it strange if something doesn't start with 1.0... people will wonder where to find 1.0

<AndyS> alt -- "Turtle (RDF 1.1)"

sandro: as it is rdf 1.1 trig, turtle, etc.

<PatH> Tur1.1tle

gavinc: the biggest change to turtle is not the grammar, it is that everything is an xsd:string

<PatH> But seriously, +1 to sandro

<markus> +1 to using RDF 1.1 in the title instead of Turtle 1.1

<ivan> +1 to Sandro

<gkellogg> +1 to RDF 1.1 Turtle/Trig/N-Triples/N-Quads

<Souri> +1 to RDF 1.1 *

Gus: it's a bit long, but very descriptive and very clear

<ivan> do we change the document's short name?

<Arnaud> are we going to do the same for every format?

<AndyS> +1

<sandro> PROPOSED: We'll use names like "RDF 1.1 Turtle" for Turtle, TriG, N-Triples, N-Quads. Okay to informally call it "Turtle 1.1" but formally it's "RDF 1.1 Turtle".

<Arnaud> unless we do that consistently I don't think that's a good idea

<AZ> +1

Gus: we have about 4 minutes left - we can do this proposal and then close this call

+1

<ericP> +1

<gkellogg> +1

<gavinc> +1

<Gus> +1

<sandro> +1

<davidwood> +1

<Arnaud> -0

<Souri> +1

Gus: I suggest we adapt all the titles of the documents now

<gavinc> Arnaud, I'll do it for everything I'm editing... so yeah, that's all the new syntaxes ;)

sandro: the bibliography needs to be changed as well

gavinc: I'll update the titles and bibliography

<scribe> ACTION: gavinc to update documents and bibliography [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/30-rdf-wg-minutes.html#action05]

<trackbot> Error finding 'gavinc'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/users>.

<scribe> ACTION: gavin to update documents and bibliography [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/30-rdf-wg-minutes.html#action06]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-319 - Update documents and bibliography [on Gavin Carothers - due 2013-11-06].

<sandro> RESOLVED: We'll use names like "RDF 1.1 Turtle" for Turtle, TriG, N-Triples, N-Quads. Okay to informally call it "Turtle 1.1" but formally it's "RDF 1.1 Turtle".

<ericP> ACTION: ericP to respond to TCR33 with the string identifier for the version of Turtle published by the RDF WG is "RDF 1.1 Turtle" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/30-rdf-wg-minutes.html#action07]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-320 - Respond to tcr33 with the string identifier for the version of turtle published by the rdf wg is "rdf 1.1 turtle" [on Eric Prud'hommeaux - due 2013-11-06].

Gus: we didn't get to Antoine's dataset
... let's talk about it next week
... I hope we can get a complete draft of the primer in the next couple of weeks
... let's adjourn

<AZ> buy

Gus: hopefully the transition meeting will go well!

<pfps> one call to transition them, and in the darkness publish them?

<gavinc> PatH: Zakim Bridge +1.617.761.6200, conference 7332 ("RDFC")

trackbot, end meeting

This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.138  of Date: 2013-04-25 13:59:11  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/give/given/
Succeeded: s/38/39/
Succeeded: s/39/33/
Found Scribe: yvesr
Inferring ScribeNick: yvesr
Default Present: Guus_Schreiber, Ivan, pfps, gkellogg, PatH, Arnaud, yvesr, Sandro, GavinC, EricP, David_Wood, markus, Souri, +33.0.81.16.5aaaa, AZ, AndyS
Present: Guus_Schreiber Ivan pfps gkellogg PatH Arnaud yvesr Sandro GavinC EricP David_Wood markus Souri +33.0.81.16.5aaaa AZ AndyS
Found Date: 30 Oct 2013
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2013/10/30-rdf-wg-minutes.html
People with action items: ericp gavin gavinc pfps