W3C

- DRAFT -

Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference

15 Oct 2013

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
+1.910.278.aaaa, Kathy_Wahlbin, Sailesh_Panchang, Peter_Korn, Michael_Cooper, Kathleen_Anderson, Cherie_Eckholm, David_MacDonald
Regrets
Alan_Smith, Andrew_Kirkpatrick
Chair
Joshue_O_Connor
Scribe
David

Contents


<trackbot> Date: 15 October 2013

<scribe> scribe:David

https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20131008comments/

<Joshue108> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Category:Techniques/HTML/Using-heading_tags_to_markup_row-header_cells_that_group_rows_in_a_data_table

#8 headings in tables...

Comments from steve and email list comments on this issue...

Josh has a list of uri's and research..will get push back if using no data information in a table...

<Joshue108> HTML5 Spec advice on data tables:

<Joshue108> http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/tabular-data.html#the-th-element

Shailesh... feels that it works, and other blind users ... html5 does not allow headers to do non th header cells but html4 does...

SP: In html5 headers attribute cnnot reference a TD, but can do it with TH, unlike HTML4... firefox now does not allow this now...

scope on TD in HTML5SP:

SP: Reason to technique... large number of rows... heading markup helps break things up.
... Developers don't like headers IDs... want to simplify...

<Joshue108> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/IssueTableHeaders

Joshue: Chair hat off... it is a hack...Table

<Joshue108> DMacD: Recently I find both SRs do well with multiple levels of headings.

<Joshue108> DMacD: They do fine without the headers and IDs.

<Joshue108> DMacD: JAWS and NVDA tend to get it right.

<Ryladog> NOTE: Minutes have not been recorded on WCAG WAI GL minutes web page since April 2013. Here: http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/minutes-history.php

leave this technique open

HTML and XHTML Techniques - H63: Using the scope attribute to associate header cells and data cells in data tables - re-written Please give us your feedback on the following as a potential new technique.

<Joshue108> +q

SP: Assistive technologies mess up table row headers... if you nagivate to column 1 then all the headers above are announced...

<Joshue108> DMacD: Sailesh are you saying explicitly using scope fixes this?

<Joshue108> SP:Yes

<Joshue108> +q

<Joshue108> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20131008comments/results

<Joshue108> H63: Using the scope attribute to associate header cells and data cells in data tables - re-written

Talkikng about item number 9 on survey... h63 scope use... need to add scope... manages user experience

SP proposed modification... should explicitly use scope for row and columns... helps avoid screen readers

<Joshue108> HTML and XHTML Techniques - H51: Using table markup to present tabular information - amendment

Resolution: leave open... Sailesh put up examples with and without scope come back to this

<Ryladog> I do not like requiring scope - I like it as an option, as well as the Header/ID - this is too well established to let it die b/c some are not supporting

Soluton: leave open... Shailesh dropped from call

<Joshue108> General Techniques - Including and playing dialogue only subtitles encoded in the closed caption stream of video

<scribe> ACTION: Josh to provide feedback to Andre B. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/15-wai-wcag-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-222 - Provide feedback to andre b. [on Joshue O Connor - due 2013-10-22].

Michael: willing to bend to consensus... don't know how useful it is... it probably works but

James: seems consensus is that it can be done but not the best way to do it.

Add to editors call agenda

RESOLUTION: leave open to discuss on editors call

<Joshue108> HTML and XHTML Techniques - Using table row grouping to associate data cells with header cells in data tables

<Joshue108> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wcag2-techs/2012Jan/0001.html

<kerstin> +1 for quoting David on that

Yes...

<Joshue108> http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html#the-tbody-element

DavidMacD. we would rather people use their accessibility budgets doing things that fix accessibility, rather than things that look good for people looking at the code

<scribe> ACTION: Cathy to provide looking at row group and colgroup in html5 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/15-wai-wcag-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Error finding 'Cathy'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/users>.

<scribe> ACTION: Kathy to provide looking at row group and colgroup in html5 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/15-wai-wcag-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-223 - Provide looking at row group and colgroup in html5 [on Kathleen Wahlbin - due 2013-10-22].

https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/Techsreview15thOct2013/

<Joshue108> . Update to Identifying valid range information with the aria-valuemin and aria-valuemax properties

Josh: looks like people want to remove it...

<Joshue108> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/ARIA3:_Identifying_valid_range_information_with_the_aria-valuemin_and_aria-valuemax_properties

James: Browsers expose it but AT does nothing

Josh: can we park it maybe work on it later if AT supports increases?

James: test has problems... because

user agents shouldn't infor the user... should be AT to do that

James: if you can fix it on the fly... do so... michael?

RESOLUTION: remove ARIA3: Identifying valid range information with the aria-valuemin and aria-valuemax properties park it for edits until needed...not a priority... due to lack of AT support

<Joshue108> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_aria-labelledby_to_name_regions_and_landmarks

<Joshue108> +q

<marcjohlic> From another Landmark technique we have: "Landmark roles (or "landmarks") programmatically identify sections of a page. Landmarks help assistive technology (AT) users orient themselves to a page and help them navigate easily to various sections of a page. "

<Joshue108> -q

Cathy: Change example one to a NAV that has more than one, nd this is distinguishing them

RESOLUTION: accept as amended http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_aria-labelledby_to_name_regions_and_landmarks

<kerstin> bye

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Cathy to provide looking at row group and colgroup in html5 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/15-wai-wcag-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: Josh to provide feedback to Andre B. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/15-wai-wcag-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: Kathy to provide looking at row group and colgroup in html5 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/10/15-wai-wcag-minutes.html#action03]
 
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Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.138 (CVS log)
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Inferring ScribeNick: David
Default Present: +1.910.278.aaaa, Kathy_Wahlbin, Sailesh_Panchang, Peter_Korn, Michael_Cooper, Kathleen_Anderson, Cherie_Eckholm, David_MacDonald
Present: +1.910.278.aaaa Kathy_Wahlbin Sailesh_Panchang Peter_Korn Michael_Cooper Kathleen_Anderson Cherie_Eckholm David_MacDonald
Regrets: Alan_Smith Andrew_Kirkpatrick
Found Date: 15 Oct 2013
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2013/10/15-wai-wcag-minutes.html
People with action items: cathy josh kathy

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