<trackbot> Date: 18 October 2012

TTML Agenda

TTML Agenda for 18/10/12 our teleconference is scheduled with reference to Boston Time, the correct time of this teleconference in your locale may change. Please check http://timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=10&day=18&year=2012&h our=10&min=0&sec=0&p1=43 Thursdays 15:00-15:00 UTC (10:00am-11:00am Boston local) Zakim Bridge +1.617.761.6200, conference 8865 ("TTML") IRC: server: irc.w3.org, port: 6665, channel: #tt Web gateway to :http[CUT]

Agenda Chair: Sean Hayes Agenda+ Assign Scribe Agenda+ actions and issues on SDP: Agenda+ actions and issues on Second edition: [1] http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/tip/ttml10-sdp-us/Overview.html Reference Tracker (Issues and Actions): http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker Profile draft: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/tip/ttml10-sdp-us Change proposals: http://www.w3.org/wiki/TTML/changeProposal001 http://www.w3.org/wiki/TTML/c[CUT]

Andreas, courtney, glenn, mijordan, pal, sean, mmartin3

Agenda (see above0

c/(see above)

Issues and Agendas

Issues

SDP

Issue-182?

<trackbot> ISSUE-182 -- Allow more than one profile to be used in the SDP-US. Add use of ttp:profile element. -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/182

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2012Oct/0029.html

Updated proposal

Action Monica Add other features related to ttp:profile to Issue-182.

<trackbot> Created ACTION-117 - Add other features related to ttp:profile to Issue-182. [on Monica Martin - due 2012-10-25].

Issue-180?

<trackbot> ISSUE-180 -- regions relative to the root container -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/180

<glenn> +Present - irc only

Proposal http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2012Oct/0033.html

Change from: No more than four lines of text must be selected into all active regions at any given time. Change to: No more than four visible lines of text must be selected into all active regions.

<scribe> New requirement: Origin and extent of a region MUST be authored not to extend outside of the root container.

Resolution: Approve changes.

<glenn> i assume this is SDP-US only, not TTML in general, yes?

Close Action-105

<trackbot> ACTION-105 Propose requirement to constrain to the root container in SDP-US (see Action-104 and Issue-180). closed

Yes, only SDP.

<Sean> Yes

<glenn> ok, no objection then

Action Glenn To implement changes proposed for Action-105 for Issue-180, SDP-US only.

<trackbot> Created ACTION-118 - Implement changes proposed for Action-105 for Issue-180, SDP-US only. [on Glenn Adams - due 2012-10-25].

Issue-192?

<trackbot> ISSUE-192 -- R0041 doesn't allow for EBT-TT conversion easily. Revise R0041 to a SHOULD. -- raised

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/192

Proposal: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2012Oct/0030.html

Sean: Mike Dolan had raised questions.
... Andreas, can you explain for EBU-TT?

Andreas: Usually have 36-37 characters per line.

Problem for European subtitles.

Sean: Limit to 128 visible characters?

Andreas: To get quality and circulate US, don't split to more lines than originally displayed.

Sean: What happens if you use captions in US?

Andreas: Seems so yes.

Sean: Use 36-38?

Andreas: Will check.

Sean: May increase visible number of characters per line = 38. If US content, 32.

mijordan: CEA-608 is the same.

Sean: Leave as a SHALL..

mmartin3: Regulation talks to 4:3 and 16:9 for 1/32 and 1/42 respectively.

mijordan: Dolan didn't account for other aspect ratios for cinema or full-format movies.

Sean: Leave to default aspect ratio of root container.
... SHALL for 38, is only for 4:3 aspect ratio content only. Or to total visible characters?
... What does EBU do?

Andreas: 38 is for 4:3 only. No other limitations.

Sean: If you did 16:9 how many would you use?

Andreas: Exchange and use SDL, limited by teletext

Sean: Retain SHALL only for 4:3 aspect ratio of the default grid. Others, limit total character limit.

mmartin3: Make note to accommodate EBU teletext.

Leave open. Monica will update.

Issue-191?

<trackbot> ISSUE-191 -- Textoutline doesn't handle specific edge types outlined in R0037. Need to revise requirement and specify in Future Needs sections. -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/191

Proposal: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2012Oct/0031.html

mmartin3: Consistent with comments from SMPTE.

Sean: User agent feature?

mmartin3: Yes.

Sean: Agree with SHOULD.

mijordan: CEA-708 has those styles.

Sean: Create issue for v.next.

Action mijordan Work on new issue for v.next or to address SMPTE questions for region, border and anchor-point. Need to ensure character edge is part of that user agent feature.

<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find mijordan. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/users>.

courtney: FCC supported in content?

mmartin3:

(7) Character edge attributes. All apparatus shall implement captioning such that character edge attributes may be displayed and users are provided the ability to select character edge attributes including: no edge attribute, raised edges, depressed edges, uniform edges, and drop shadowed edges.

scribe: Greater issue than SDP-US.

Sean: Add to Second Edition?

Add to action - what we need to support in TTML (SDP-US).

<glenn> some of these may be accomplished by the currently defined tts:textOutline property, but some cannot without modifying that property

<glenn> i think it would be good to describe how to use this property to achieve these "named" "edge" characteristics

mijordan: Need mechanism for offsetting.

Sean: v.next

<glenn> textOutline allows specifying offset of outline (shadow) already

Leave open.

<glenn> scratch my prior, mjordan is correct

Issue-190?

<trackbot> ISSUE-190 -- Background vs Window Color -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/190

Proposal: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2012Oct/0028.html

<glenn> probably need both offset (x,y) and also multiple outlines (shadows) to apply to achieve desired effects

courtney: Agree.

Sean: Put in SDP.

Resolved to use example in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2012Oct/0028.html.

Action Glenn Implement proposal for Issue-190 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2012Oct/0028.html.

<trackbot> Created ACTION-119 - Implement proposal for Issue-190 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2012Oct/0028.html. [on Glenn Adams - due 2012-10-25].

Close Issue-190

<trackbot> ISSUE-190 Background vs Window Color closed

Issue-189?

<trackbot> ISSUE-189 -- do regions scroll their flowed content? -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/189

<Sean> Glenn We will go back to the outlie styles next week

<glenn> ok

Proposal: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2012Oct/0032.html

Example + add feature displayAlign

Mike Dolan commented http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2012Oct/0032.html

<glenn> we should think about deprecating tts:textOutline, and just introduce new tts:textShadow based on CSS3 Text spec definition

Sean: Previous example didn't show the region.
... Example is actually roll-up and paint-on.

Mike's example is only roll-up.

scribe: Explains the examples and the differences.

mmartin3: Do we explain more?

Sean: Example with elaboration over time.
... Add lines coming in at the bottom and going out at the top.
... Use Mike's example. Add pictures for SDP-US.

Leave open.

No other issues ready for today.

Actions

Action-89?

<trackbot> ACTION-89 -- Glenn Adams to add TTML 1.0 Second Edition reference. -- due 2012-09-13 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/89

mmartin3: Explains references - TTML 1.0 Normative and TTML 1.0 SE as informative. Put in document placeholder manually.

Sean: Preamble text to SE which is emerging.

mmartin3: Work on an updated proposal then for Action-109.
... c/109/89

<Sean> preamble text to the reference to indicate the most recently published version should take precedence

<glenn> any body going to TPAC? i'll be there if anyone wishes to pow wow about TTML

All other actions are related to issues we discussed today.

Issue-188?

<trackbot> ISSUE-188 -- Bounding SDP-US rendering complexity -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/188

<Sean> only Philippe

No time to discuss.

trackbpt, end meeting

trackbot, end meeting

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