14:00:35 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #tt
14:00:35 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/10/18-tt-irc
14:00:37 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:00:37 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #tt
14:00:39 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be TTML
14:00:40 <trackbot> Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
14:00:40 <trackbot> Date: 18 October 2012
14:00:40 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM scheduled to start now
14:01:04 <mmartin3> TTML Agenda
14:01:32 <mmartin3> TTML Agenda for 18/10/12  our teleconference is scheduled with reference to Boston Time, the correct time of this teleconference in your locale may change. Please check http://timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=10&day=18&year=2012&h our=10&min=0&sec=0&p1=43  Thursdays 15:00-15:00 UTC (10:00am-11:00am Boston local) Zakim Bridge +1.617.761.6200, conference 8865 ("TTML") IRC: server: irc.w3.org, port: 6665, channel: #tt Web gateway to :http[CUT]
14:01:55 <mmartin3> Agenda  Chair: Sean Hayes  Agenda+ Assign Scribe  Agenda+ actions and issues on SDP:   Agenda+ actions and issues on Second edition:    [1] http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/tip/ttml10-sdp-us/Overview.html  Reference  Tracker (Issues and Actions): http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker Profile draft:  http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/tip/ttml10-sdp-us  Change proposals: http://www.w3.org/wiki/TTML/changeProposal001 http://www.w3.org/wiki/TTML/c[CUT]
14:02:04 <mijordan> mijordan has joined #tt
14:02:19 <mmartin3> zakim, list attendees?
14:02:20 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, mmartin3.
14:02:35 <mmartin3> zakim, list attendees
14:02:35 <Zakim> sorry, mmartin3, I don't know what conference this is
14:04:01 <courtney> courtney has joined #tt
14:04:25 <mmartin3> zakim, list attendees
14:04:25 <Zakim> sorry, mmartin3, I don't know what conference this is
14:04:50 <mmartin3> chair:
14:04:52 <mmartin3> Sean Hayes
14:04:59 <mmartin3> Present:
14:07:20 <mmartin3> Andreas, courtney, glenn, mijordan, pal, sean, mmartin3
14:07:30 <mmartin3> Agenda (see above0
14:07:38 <mmartin3> c/(see above)
14:07:44 <mmartin3> Issues and Agendas
14:07:53 <mmartin3> Issues
14:07:54 <mmartin3> SDP
14:08:27 <mmartin3> Issue-182?
14:08:27 <trackbot> ISSUE-182 -- Allow more than one profile to be used in the SDP-US. Add use of ttp:profile element. -- open
14:08:27 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/182
14:09:06 <mmartin3> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2012Oct/0029.html
14:09:27 <mmartin3> Updated proposal
14:10:00 <plh> plh has joined #tt
14:11:46 <mmartin3> Action Monica Add other features related to ttp:profile to Issue-182.
14:11:46 <trackbot> Created ACTION-117 - Add other features related to ttp:profile to Issue-182. [on Monica Martin - due 2012-10-25].
14:13:33 <mmartin3> Issue-180?
14:13:33 <trackbot> ISSUE-180 -- regions relative to the root container -- open
14:13:33 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/180
14:13:45 <glenn> +Present - irc only
14:14:12 <mmartin3> Proposal http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2012Oct/0033.html
14:15:20 <mmartin3> Change from: No more than four lines of text must be selected into all active regions at any given time. Change to: No more than four visible lines of text must be selected into all active regions.
14:15:43 <mmartin3> New requirement: Origin and extent of a region MUST be authored not to extend outside of the root container.
14:17:56 <mmartin3> Resolution: Approve changes.
14:18:15 <glenn> i assume this is SDP-US only, not TTML in general, yes?
14:18:29 <mmartin3> Close Action-105
14:18:29 <trackbot> ACTION-105 Propose requirement to constrain to the root container in SDP-US (see Action-104 and Issue-180). closed
14:18:36 <mmartin3> Yes, only SDP.
14:18:37 <Sean> Yes
14:18:53 <glenn> ok, no objection then
14:19:06 <mmartin3> Action Glenn To implement changes proposed for Action-105 for Issue-180, SDP-US only.
14:19:06 <trackbot> Created ACTION-118 - Implement changes proposed for Action-105 for Issue-180, SDP-US only. [on Glenn Adams - due 2012-10-25].
14:19:26 <mmartin3> Issue-192?
14:19:26 <trackbot> ISSUE-192 -- R0041 doesn't allow for EBT-TT conversion easily. Revise R0041 to a SHOULD. -- raised
14:19:26 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/192
14:19:55 <mmartin3> Proposal: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2012Oct/0030.html
14:20:17 <mmartin3> Sean: Mike Dolan had raised questions.
14:20:28 <mmartin3> ....Andreas, can you explain for EBU-TT?
14:20:42 <mmartin3> Andreas: Usually have 36-37 characters per line.
14:21:35 <mmartin3> Problem for European subtitles.
14:22:21 <mmartin3> Sean: Limit to 128 visible characters?
14:23:20 <mmartin3> Andreas: To get quality and circulate US, don't split to more lines than originally displayed.
14:23:33 <mmartin3> Sean: What happens if you use captions in US?
14:23:39 <mmartin3> Andreas: Seems so yes.
14:24:36 <mmartin3> Sean: Use 36-38?
14:24:40 <mmartin3> Andreas: Will check.
14:24:56 <glenn> glenn has joined #tt
14:26:31 <mmartin3> Sean: May increase visible number of characters per line = 38. If US content, 32.
14:26:38 <mmartin3> mijordan: CEA-608 is the same.
14:27:39 <mmartin3> Sean: Leave as a SHALL..
14:28:03 <mmartin3> mmartin3: Regulation talks to 4:3 and 16:9 for 1/32 and 1/42 respectively.
14:28:33 <mmartin3> mijordan: Dolan didn't account for other aspect ratios for cinema or full-format movies.
14:28:56 <mmartin3> Sean: Leave to default aspect ratio of root container.
14:30:10 <mmartin3> ...SHALL for 38, is only for 4:3 aspect ratio content only. Or to total visible characters?
14:30:16 <mmartin3> ...What does EBU do?
14:30:32 <mmartin3> Andreas: 38 is for 4:3 only. No other limitations.
14:31:07 <mmartin3> Sean: If you did 16:9 how many would you use?
14:31:23 <mmartin3> Andreas: Exchange and use SDL, limited by teletext
14:32:24 <mmartin3> Sean: Retain SHALL only for 4:3 aspect ratio of the default grid. Others, limit total character limit.
14:32:37 <mmartin3> mmartin3: Make note to accommodate EBU teletext.
14:32:54 <mmartin3> Leave open. Monica will update.
14:33:12 <mmartin3> Issue-191?
14:33:12 <trackbot> ISSUE-191 -- Textoutline doesn't handle specific edge types outlined in R0037. Need to revise requirement and specify in Future Needs sections. -- open
14:33:12 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/191
14:33:22 <mmartin3> Proposal: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2012Oct/0031.html
14:34:34 <mmartin3> mmartin3: Consistent with comments from SMPTE.
14:34:48 <mmartin3> Sean: User agent feature?
14:34:52 <mmartin3> mmartin3: Yes.
14:35:27 <mmartin3> Sean: Agree with SHOULD.
14:35:59 <mmartin3> mijordan: CEA-708 has those styles.
14:36:53 <mmartin3> Sean: Create issue for v.next.
14:38:04 <mmartin3> Action mijordan Work on new issue for v.next or to address SMPTE questions for region, border and anchor-point.  Need to ensure character edge is part of that user agent feature.
14:38:04 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find mijordan. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/users>.
14:38:32 <mmartin3> courtney: FCC supported in content?
14:39:28 <mmartin3> mmartin3:
14:39:29 <mmartin3> (7) Character edge attributes.  All apparatus shall implement captioning such that character edge attributes may be displayed and users are provided the ability to select character edge attributes including: no edge attribute, raised edges, depressed edges, uniform edges, and drop shadowed edges.
14:40:35 <mmartin3> ...Greater issue than SDP-US.
14:40:41 <mmartin3> Sean: Add to Second Edition?
14:41:16 <mmartin3> Add to action - what we need to support in TTML (SDP-US).
14:41:20 <glenn> some of these may be accomplished by the currently defined tts:textOutline property, but some cannot without modifying that property
14:42:20 <glenn> i think it would be good to describe how to use this property to achieve these "named" "edge" characteristics
14:42:22 <mmartin3> mijordan: Need mechanism for offsetting.
14:42:43 <mmartin3> Sean: v.next
14:42:54 <glenn> textOutline allows specifying offset of outline (shadow) already
14:44:15 <mmartin3> Leave open.
14:44:38 <glenn> scratch my prior, mjordan is correct
14:44:40 <mmartin3> Issue-190?
14:44:40 <trackbot> ISSUE-190 -- Background vs Window Color -- open
14:44:40 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/190
14:45:04 <mmartin3> Proposal: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2012Oct/0028.html
14:45:16 <glenn> probably need both offset (x,y) and also multiple outlines (shadows) to apply to achieve desired effects
14:45:38 <mmartin3> courtney: Agree.
14:45:49 <mmartin3> Sean: Put in SDP.
14:46:15 <mmartin3> Resolved to use example in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2012Oct/0028.html.
14:46:31 <mmartin3> Action Glenn Implement proposal for Issue-190 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2012Oct/0028.html.
14:46:32 <trackbot> Created ACTION-119 - Implement proposal for Issue-190 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2012Oct/0028.html. [on Glenn Adams - due 2012-10-25].
14:46:37 <mmartin3> Close Issue-190
14:46:37 <trackbot> ISSUE-190 Background vs Window Color closed
14:47:08 <mmartin3> Issue-189?
14:47:08 <trackbot> ISSUE-189 -- do regions scroll their flowed content? -- open
14:47:08 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/189
14:47:13 <Sean> Glenn We will go back  to the outlie styles next week
14:47:22 <glenn> ok
14:47:46 <mmartin3> Proposal: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2012Oct/0032.html
14:48:00 <mmartin3> Example + add feature displayAlign
14:48:18 <mmartin3> Mike Dolan commented http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2012Oct/0032.html
14:48:29 <glenn> we should think about deprecating tts:textOutline, and just introduce new tts:textShadow based on CSS3 Text spec definition
14:48:30 <mmartin3> Sean: Previous example didn't show the region.
14:48:51 <mmartin3> ...Example is actually roll-up and paint-on.
14:48:58 <mmartin3> Mike's example is only roll-up.
14:49:30 <mmartin3> .....Explains the examples and the differences.
14:50:00 <mmartin3> mmartin3: Do we explain more?
14:50:10 <mmartin3> Sean: Example with elaboration over time.
14:50:28 <mmartin3> ...Add lines coming in at the bottom and going out at the top.
14:51:19 <mmartin3> ....Use Mike's example. Add pictures for SDP-US.
14:51:21 <mmartin3> Leave open.
14:52:03 <mmartin3> No other issues ready for today.
14:52:05 <mmartin3> Actions
14:52:08 <mmartin3> Action-89?
14:52:08 <trackbot> ACTION-89 -- Glenn Adams to add TTML 1.0 Second Edition reference. -- due 2012-09-13 -- PENDINGREVIEW
14:52:08 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/89
14:54:47 <mmartin3> mmartin3: Explains references - TTML 1.0 Normative and TTML 1.0 SE as informative. Put in document placeholder manually.
14:55:12 <mmartin3> Sean: Preamble text to SE which is emerging.
14:56:10 <mmartin3> mmartin3: Work on an updated proposal then for Action-109.
14:56:18 <mmartin3> ...c/109/89
14:56:30 <Sean> preamble text to the reference to indicate the most recently published version should take precedence
14:57:18 <glenn> any body going to TPAC? i'll be there if anyone wishes to pow wow about TTML
14:57:40 <mmartin3> All other actions are related to issues we discussed today.
14:57:45 <mmartin3> Issue-188?
14:57:45 <trackbot> ISSUE-188 -- Bounding SDP-US rendering complexity -- open
14:57:45 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/188
14:57:46 <Sean> only Philippe
14:57:49 <mmartin3> No time to discuss.
14:58:24 <mmartin3> zakim, list attendees
14:58:24 <Zakim> sorry, mmartin3, I don't know what conference this is
14:58:33 <mmartin3> trackbpt, end meeting
14:58:40 <mmartin3> trackbot, end meeting
14:58:40 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
14:58:40 <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
14:58:48 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
14:58:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/10/18-tt-minutes.html trackbot
14:58:49 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
14:58:49 <RRSAgent> I see no action items