Internationalization Core Working Group Teleconference

15 Aug 2012


See also: IRC log


Addison, Richard, Norbert, Felix, John, Mati, Aharon, Andrew, David
Addison Phillips
Addison Phillips


Action Items

<r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open

close ACTION-143

<trackbot> ACTION-143 Convey to ITS feedback about considering using of extended filtering in ITS 2.0 closed

Info Share

Mati: seen summary of UTC meeting
... and there were decisions about bidi
... seem to have accepted isolation characters proposed by Aharon
... think it's a good thing
... not be in Unicode until next relase (6.2??)
... can work with HTML/CSS to synchronize features with the characters

<r12a> +1 to that

<r12a> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2012Aug/0001.html

Norbert: new draft of ECMAScript I18N specification
... no big changes
... changed ref to v21 of LDML

<Norbert> http://wiki.ecmascript.org/doku.php?id=globalization:specification_drafts

<aharon> I can give exact details on unicode + css bidi isolation, if there is time

John: asking for feedback on ES proposal?

Norbert: yes

John: asking for internal feedback and will also provide personal feedback

<scribe> chair: norbert to post note to winter list about ES I18N

Translations of site


richard: thinking we should get rid of out-of-date translations
... outlined a proposal
... went through to see what's out of date
... here's a list:

<r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Translations

richard: normally mention changes on translators list
... if small change, might retrofit translation
... or place english in place temporarily
... but more substantive change, the translation is "at risk"
... and we give a period of time (a month?) to get to the translation
... or we remove translation or link thereto
... auto-banner appears for out of date translations

norbert: sounds good

addison: +1

<DavidClarke> If the translation has been allocated to someone to update, might it be a good idea to add a line like "translation being updated by ..., due ...."

richard: don't want to go that far befcause of maintenance pain



<fsasaki> <h2>Welcome to Dublin in Ireland!</h2>

felix: ITS working on this

<fsasaki> http://example.com/exampledoc.html#offset_0_29 itsrdf:translate "yes"^^<http://www.w3.org/TR/its-2.0/its.xsd#yesOrNo>.

felix: if you have an HTML like above
... we make RDF out of it
... such as the above
... and the conversion requires normalization to NFC
... so if non-normalized characters, then offset could change
... remember that we ended up with no normalization in HTML5

addison: when applied? would NCRs have same effect?

felix: no, that's handled


richard: what does example say?

felix: says "there is a string at those offsets that is translateable"

norbert: instead of saying "my string goes from 0 to 29"
... say "starts at and here is normalized length"

richard: if you change source file, then RDF has to be regenerated??

felix: yes
... meant for automatic annotation
... so RDF is a "broker" in a larger workflow
... implementer says that his tools require NFC

andrew: does NFC conversion go both directions?
... once translated, is there a normalization step?
... when returning to HTML
... need to check some minority languages are affected, see UTN#11

<r12a> patricia, ishida@w3.org

<scribe> ACTION: felix: prepare some examples of ITS2NIF showing NFC issue for consideration next week [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/08/15-i18n-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-145 - Prepare some examples of ITS2NIF showing NFC issue for consideration next week [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-08-22].






<aharon> Got to go. Bye, everyone.

It's not clear why this should take eight hex digits when the first two are required to be 0.

Also, the trend seems to be going towards \u{xxxxx}: http://norbertlindenberg.com/2012/05/ecmascript-supplementary-characters/index.html#Escapes http://unicode.org/reports/tr18/#Hex_notation

replace with this format??

addison: agree with that

richard: charmod says "use delimiter or use fixed number of digits"

addison: can *suggest* they use the more "modern" (trendy?) format?

richard: need a rationale

addison: single, variable-lenght, easy-to-parse syntax
... being widely adopted
... worthy of consideration

Section 6.4, both forms of Unicode escape sequence: The spec doesn't say at what stage the escape sequences are converted to their corresponding characters. Can \u0022 start or end a string literal (as it does in Java)?

addison: think it's important

>> 1. Example in the introduction includes a non-ASCII/non-English value, which is nice to see. However this example and the later example in 2.3 omit any language declaration on the English name "Spiderman".

>> 2. No reference is given on how to label language. This should refer to BCP 47.

richard: "scope of this document has language tag 'blah'"??

(that's a new comment)

norbert: useful

addison: +1

>> 3. Section 2.4 discusses IRIs, but does not use a non-ASCII example.

>> 4. Section 2.5.1 references several character sequences quoting character sequences such as " / @ and ^^. These should probably list the Unicode character names and/or code points for clarity.

>> 5. Section 2.5.1 uses several examples that are highly culturally distinct to the United States. (One could quibble about Spiderman and Green Goblin as well, but at least these are part of a film seen internationally, as opposed to a television show of doubtful international distribution??)

>> 6. Section 2.5.2 has an example of a number: >> >> :censusYear 2007 ; # xsd:integer >> >> ... that is probably ill-advised. While years are represented by numbers, this might not be a good example of an "integer". >> >> 6a. This example in the same section also is questionable? >> >> :gdpDollars 14074.2E9 ; # xsd:double

richard: put explanations in comment (use gYear, dollars are a complex type)


<matial> Bye

<r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/tests/results/results-idn-display

<r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/tests/results/results-rtl-idn-display

<r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/articles/idn-and-iri/Overview

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: felix: prepare some examples of ITS2NIF showing NFC issue for consideration next week [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/08/15-i18n-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]

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$Date: 2012/09/20 15:16:39 $