Last week's minutes were approved. Actions were reviewed. Paul will circulate details about F2F2 and XMas holiday.
Luc announced that a the second draft of the prov-dm is ready for internal review. Group members are invited to review the document with a view of deciding of its release next week. Comments/issues to be raised using the Tracker, in the usual way. Actions was set on Satya, Yolanda and Tim to agree to close issues they previously raised (or reopen them with further comments). The next round of changes (third working draft) will focus on collections, recipe link and complementarity, in addition to moving constraints to a separate section.
the working group agreed to release the document as first public working draft.
editors are making the document compliant with pubrules for its public release.
document is ready, and formal requests are now being initiated.
James C is aiming to produce a revised version of its semantics, based on the latest prov-dm, by Dec 19th. This will be a good document to review by those interested in semantics. Then we will decide how to continue efforts.
As we had covered the agenda, we started a discussion on Complementarity, ahead of the planned work for prov-dm WD3. We put forward a number of proposals to get a feel for what the WG thought about this relation. It seems that the current definition is not satisfactory, but proposals that were circulated seem conflicting. It was suggested that we need use cases to drive the design of this notion. A wiki page was created and WG members are invited to contribute to it.
15:50:36 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-prov-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-prov-irc ←
15:50:38 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world ←
15:50:40 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be ←
15:50:40 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot ←
15:50:40 <Luc> Zakim, this will be PROV
Luc Moreau: Zakim, this will be PROV ←
15:50:41 <trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference
15:50:41 <trackbot> Date: 01 December 2011
15:50:42 <Zakim> ok, Luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 10 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 10 minutes ←
15:50:48 <Luc> Agenda:
15:51:05 <Luc> Agenda:http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.12.01
15:51:15 <Luc> Chair: Luc Moreau
15:51:20 <Luc> rrsagent, make logs public
Luc Moreau: rrsagent, make logs public ←
15:52:26 <Luc> Regrets: Yogesh Simmhan, Michael Lang
15:57:36 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started
(No events recorded for 6 minutes)
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started ←
15:57:42 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
15:57:49 <pgroth> Zakim, [IPCaller] is me
Paul Groth: Zakim, [IPCaller] is me ←
15:57:49 <Zakim> +pgroth; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +pgroth; got it ←
15:58:37 <Zakim> +Curt_Tilmes
Zakim IRC Bot: +Curt_Tilmes ←
15:59:43 <Zakim> +??P12
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P12 ←
<luc>Topic: Admin
Summary: Last week's minutes were approved. Actions were reviewed. Paul will circulate details about F2F2 and XMas holiday.
<luc>Summary: Last week's minutes were approved. Actions were reviewed. Paul will circulate details about F2F2 and XMas holiday.
15:59:55 <Zakim> +Luc
Zakim IRC Bot: +Luc ←
16:00:38 <Zakim> + +1.315.330.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.315.330.aaaa ←
16:00:39 <Zakim> +stain
Zakim IRC Bot: +stain ←
16:01:14 <Zakim> + +1.213.290.aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.213.290.aabb ←
16:01:28 <Zakim> -stain
Zakim IRC Bot: -stain ←
16:01:53 <Zakim> +??P19
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P19 ←
16:02:03 <jcheney> zakim, ??p19 is me
James Cheney: zakim, ??p19 is me ←
16:02:09 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
16:02:09 <tlebo> I'll scribe
Timothy Lebo: I'll scribe ←
16:02:17 <Zakim> +jcheney; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +jcheney; got it ←
16:02:21 <Luc> Scribe: Timothy Lebo
(Scribe set to Timothy Lebo)
16:02:38 <Yogesh> zakim, +1.213.290 is me
Yogesh Simmhan: zakim, +1.213.290 is me ←
16:02:43 <Zakim> +Yogesh; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Yogesh; got it ←
16:02:51 <tlebo> review documents today, then discuss semantics.
review documents today, then discuss semantics. ←
16:03:05 <Luc> PROPOSED: to accept the minutes of the Nov. 24 telecon
PROPOSED: to accept the minutes of the Nov. 24 telecon ←
16:03:35 <pgroth> there here: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2011-11-24
Paul Groth: there here: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2011-11-24 ←
16:03:36 <tlebo> 0 (was eating turkey)
0 (was eating turkey) ←
16:03:36 <Zakim> +Satya_Sahoo
Zakim IRC Bot: +Satya_Sahoo ←
16:03:39 <Curt> 0 (not present)
Curt Tilmes: 0 (not present) ←
16:03:45 <Zakim> +stain
Zakim IRC Bot: +stain ←
16:03:51 <smiles> +1 (from a quick read)
Simon Miles: +1 (from a quick read) ←
16:03:54 <jcheney> +1
James Cheney: +1 ←
16:04:28 <Yogesh> 0 (not present)
Yogesh Simmhan: 0 (not present) ←
16:04:28 <satya> +1
Satya Sahoo: +1 ←
16:04:44 <Luc> ACCEPTED: the minutes of the Nov. 24 telecon
RESOLVED: the minutes of the Nov. 24 telecon ←
16:05:07 <Zakim> +SamCoppens
Zakim IRC Bot: +SamCoppens ←
16:05:20 <tlebo> on Paul, F2F page? Will do tonight.
on Paul, F2F page? Will do tonight. ←
16:06:11 <tlebo> on Graham, status paragraph. Not on call. Should be done soon. Needs to validate HTML rspec stuff.
on Graham, status paragraph. Not on call. Should be done soon. Needs to validate HTML rspec stuff. ←
16:06:40 <tlebo> on Paul, email about holiday break. Did not do.
on Paul, email about holiday break. Did not do. ←
16:07:11 <tlebo> on Stian, move prov-o to new best practice. Stian did it.
on Stian, move prov-o to new best practice. Stian did it. ←
16:07:21 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller.a] ←
16:07:34 <tlebo> we need scribes, please sign up.
we need scribes, please sign up. ←
16:07:36 <khalidbelhajjame> zakim, [IPcaller.a] is me
Khalid Belhajjame: zakim, [IPcaller.a] is me ←
16:07:36 <Zakim> +khalidbelhajjame; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +khalidbelhajjame; got it ←
16:07:45 <Luc> topic: prov-dm
Summary: Luc announced that a the second draft of the prov-dm is ready for internal review. Group members are invited to review the document with a view of deciding of its release next week. Comments/issues to be raised using the Tracker, in the usual way. Actions was set on Satya, Yolanda and Tim to agree to close issues they previously raised (or reopen them with further comments). The next round of changes (third working draft) will focus on collections, recipe link and complementarity, in addition to moving constraints to a separate section.
<luc>Summary: Luc announced that a the second draft of the prov-dm is ready for internal review. Group members are invited to review the document with a view of deciding of its release next week. Comments/issues to be raised using the Tracker, in the usual way. Actions was set on Satya, Yolanda and Tim to agree to close issues they previously raised (or reopen them with further comments). The next round of changes (third working draft) will focus on collections, recipe link and complementarity, in addition to moving constraints to a separate section.
16:08:06 <tlebo> luc: we produced revised document, would like feedback from members.
Luc Moreau: we produced revised document, would like feedback from members. ←
16:08:32 <tlebo> luc: objective is to release as second working draft at next week's telecon.
Luc Moreau: objective is to release as second working draft at next week's telecon. ←
16:08:53 <tlebo> luc: a number of issues - satya, yolanda, and tim need to close their issues.
Luc Moreau: a number of issues - satya, yolanda, and tim need to close their issues. ←
16:08:56 <adamretter> Hi I just joined the Working Group, but I am afraid that I will not be able to attend this weeks telecon, as its too short notice and I am travelling in Germany
Adam Retter: Hi I just joined the Working Group, but I am afraid that I will not be able to attend this weeks telecon, as its too short notice and I am travelling in Germany ←
16:09:03 <satya> @Luc, I will be responding in a couple of days
Satya Sahoo: @Luc, I will be responding in a couple of days ←
16:09:14 <tlebo> @luc, I'll start on them after the call.
@luc, I'll start on them after the call. ←
16:09:38 <tlebo> luc: changes in DM beyond 2PWD
Luc Moreau: changes in DM beyond 2PWD ←
16:09:44 <pgroth> @adamretter welcome to the WG
Paul Groth: @adamretter welcome to the WG ←
16:09:55 <tlebo> += collections
+= collections ←
16:10:02 <tlebo> += wasComplementOf
+= wasComplementOf ←
16:10:12 <tlebo> += recipeLink
+= recipeLink ←
16:10:24 <adamretter> pgroth: thank you
Paul Groth: thank you [ Scribe Assist by Adam Retter ] ←
16:10:27 <tlebo> luc: all constraints goign to a separate section.
Luc Moreau: all constraints goign to a separate section. ←
16:10:35 <adamretter> bye for now
Adam Retter: bye for now ←
16:10:36 <Zakim> + +1.518.633.aacc
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.518.633.aacc ←
16:10:46 <tlebo> those are plans for 3PWD
those are plans for 3PWD ←
16:10:57 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:11:06 <pgroth> q+
Paul Groth: q+ ←
16:11:27 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
Zakim IRC Bot: +OpenLink_Software ←
16:11:28 <tlebo> pgroth: how do the editors want to manage feedback?
Paul Groth: how do the editors want to manage feedback? ←
16:11:34 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me ←
16:11:36 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me ←
16:11:38 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +MacTed; got it ←
16:11:42 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted ←
16:11:53 <tlebo> pgroth: raise issues against now or later?
Paul Groth: raise issues against now or later? ←
16:12:02 <tlebo> luc: normal process; people should raise issues.
Luc Moreau: normal process; people should raise issues. ←
16:12:15 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:12:17 <Luc> ack pg
Luc Moreau: ack pg ←
16:12:25 <tlebo> q+
q+ ←
16:13:13 <satya> q+
Satya Sahoo: q+ ←
16:13:18 <Luc> ack tleb
Luc Moreau: ack tleb ←
16:13:19 <tlebo> q-
q- ←
16:13:30 <Luc> ack sat
Luc Moreau: ack sat ←
16:13:56 <tlebo> satya: when releasing public working draft, what role does raising current issues play?
Satya Sahoo: when releasing public working draft, what role does raising current issues play? ←
16:14:34 <tlebo> satya: how do issues correlate?
Satya Sahoo: how do issues correlate? ←
16:14:41 <Zakim> +??P74
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P74 ←
16:14:43 <Zakim> -??P74
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P74 ←
16:14:51 <tlebo> luc: issue creator should not which draft the issue is against.
Luc Moreau: issue creator should not which draft the issue is against. ←
16:15:01 <Zakim> +??P74
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P74 ←
16:15:01 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:15:06 <tlebo> @satya, sounds like we're just running with it.
@satya, sounds like we're just running with it. ←
16:15:51 <GK> Zakim, ??PP74 is me
Graham Klyne: Zakim, ??PP74 is me ←
16:15:51 <Zakim> sorry, GK, I do not recognize a party named '??PP74'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, GK, I do not recognize a party named '??PP74' ←
16:16:25 <tlebo> luc: PWD every 3 months is a strict requirement of W3C
Luc Moreau: PWD every 3 months is a strict requirement of W3C ←
16:16:28 <GK> Zakim, ?P74 is me
Graham Klyne: Zakim, ?P74 is me ←
16:16:28 <Zakim> sorry, GK, I do not recognize a party named '?P74'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, GK, I do not recognize a party named '?P74' ←
16:16:32 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:16:43 <satya> @Luc, ok I understand that point, I was clarifying another point
Satya Sahoo: @Luc, ok I understand that point, I was clarifying another point ←
16:16:51 <GK> zakim ??P74 is me
Graham Klyne: zakim ??P74 is me ←
16:16:54 <tlebo> luc: will satya, yolanda, and tim be able to review?
Luc Moreau: will satya, yolanda, and tim be able to review? ←
16:16:56 <tlebo> @luc, yes.
@luc, yes. ←
16:17:00 <satya> @Luc, sure
Satya Sahoo: @Luc, sure ←
16:17:02 <tlebo> I'll start it after the call.
I'll start it after the call. ←
16:17:10 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:17:16 <Luc> topic: prov-primer
Summary: the working group agreed to release the document as first public working draft.
<luc>Summary: the working group agreed to release the document as first public working draft.
16:17:22 <GK> zakim, ??P74 is me
Graham Klyne: zakim, ??P74 is me ←
16:17:22 <Zakim> +GK; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +GK; got it ←
16:17:53 <tlebo> smiles: tried to address more comments raised recently. nothing looked like blockers.
Simon Miles: tried to address more comments raised recently. nothing looked like blockers. ←
16:18:07 <tlebo> smiles: complementarity was difficult to explain.
Simon Miles: complementarity was difficult to explain. ←
16:18:12 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:18:27 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:18:33 <tlebo> smiles: okay to go to public working draft.
Simon Miles: okay to go to public working draft. ←
16:18:54 <Luc> PROPOSED: to release the primer (prov-primer) as a first public working draft
PROPOSED: to release the primer (prov-primer) as a first public working draft ←
16:18:58 <khalidbelhajjame> +1
Khalid Belhajjame: +1 ←
16:19:08 <khalidbelhajjame> +1 (University of Manchester)
Khalid Belhajjame: +1 (University of Manchester) ←
16:19:10 <jcheney> +1 (University of Edinburgh)
James Cheney: +1 (University of Edinburgh) ←
16:19:12 <GK> +1 (Oxford)
Graham Klyne: +1 (Oxford) ←
16:19:16 <stain_> +1 (University of Manchester)
Stian Soiland-Reyes: +1 (University of Manchester) ←
16:19:16 <Yogesh> +1 (IE)
Yogesh Simmhan: +1 (IE) ←
16:19:18 <tlebo> +1 (RPI)
+1 (RPI) ←
16:19:18 <Curt> +1 (NASA)
Curt Tilmes: +1 (NASA) ←
16:19:18 <smiles> +1 (IE)
Simon Miles: +1 (IE) ←
16:19:27 <MacTed> institution isn't typically necessary, for these, but...
Ted Thibodeau: institution isn't typically necessary, for these, but... ←
16:19:27 <zednik> +1 (RPI)
Stephan Zednik: +1 (RPI) ←
16:19:27 <MacTed> +1 (OpenLink Software)
Ted Thibodeau: +1 (OpenLink Software) ←
16:19:34 <SamCoppens> +1 (IBBT)
Sam Coppens: +1 (IBBT) ←
16:19:35 <satya> +1 (Case Western)
Satya Sahoo: +1 (Case Western) ←
16:19:54 <Luc> ACCEPTED: to release the primer (prov-primer) as a first public working draft
RESOLVED: to release the primer (prov-primer) as a first public working draft ←
16:20:01 <GK> I wonder if the difficulty of describing "Complementarity" is indicative of a problem here
Graham Klyne: I wonder if the difficulty of describing "Complementarity" is indicative of a problem here ←
16:21:18 <tlebo> gk: asking for some justification for complementarity.
Graham Klyne: asking for some justification for complementarity. ←
16:21:30 <tlebo> luc: we are delaying complement to 3PWD
Luc Moreau: we are delaying complement to 3PWD ←
16:22:07 <tlebo> luc: complement proposals forthcoming.
Luc Moreau: complement proposals forthcoming. ←
16:22:19 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:22:55 <stain_> I can see the need for aligning accounts, but rather for the hierarchical prov: viewOf
Stian Soiland-Reyes: I can see the need for aligning accounts, but rather for the hierarchical prov: viewOf ←
16:23:07 <tlebo> smiles: what are pubrules?
Simon Miles: what are pubrules? ←
16:23:27 <tlebo> (+1 for prov:viewOf)
(+1 for prov:viewOf) ←
16:23:36 <GK> http://www.w3.org/2005/07/pubrules
Graham Klyne: http://www.w3.org/2005/07/pubrules ←
16:24:06 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:24:15 <Luc> topic: prov-aq
Summary: editors are making the document compliant with pubrules for its public release.
<luc>Summary: editors are making the document compliant with pubrules for its public release.
16:24:23 <GK> http://www.w3.org/2005/07/13-pubrules-about
Graham Klyne: http://www.w3.org/2005/07/13-pubrules-about ←
16:24:58 <tlebo> gk: feels caught up on issues list.
Graham Klyne: feels caught up on issues list. ←
16:25:05 <tlebo> gk: wrestling with pubrules
Graham Klyne: wrestling with pubrules ←
16:25:35 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:26:37 <GK> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/tip/paq/prov-aq.html
Graham Klyne: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/tip/paq/prov-aq.html ←
16:27:23 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:27:40 <pgroth> +q
Paul Groth: +q ←
16:27:56 <tlebo> pgroth: need to get authors correct. affiliations, etc.
Paul Groth: need to get authors correct. affiliations, etc. ←
16:28:05 <Luc> ack pgr
Luc Moreau: ack pgr ←
16:28:10 <tlebo> pgroth will email authorlist.
pgroth will email authorlist. ←
16:28:25 <Luc> topic: prov-o
Summary: document is ready, and formal requests are now being initiated.
<luc>Summary: document is ready, and formal requests are now being initiated.
16:28:49 <MacTed> Zakim, who's here?
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, who's here? ←
16:28:49 <Zakim> On the phone I see pgroth, Curt_Tilmes, ??P12, Luc, +1.315.330.aaaa, Yogesh, jcheney, [IPcaller], Satya_Sahoo, stain, SamCoppens, khalidbelhajjame, +1.518.633.aacc, MacTed (muted),
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see pgroth, Curt_Tilmes, ??P12, Luc, +1.315.330.aaaa, Yogesh, jcheney, [IPcaller], Satya_Sahoo, stain, SamCoppens, khalidbelhajjame, +1.518.633.aacc, MacTed (muted), ←
16:28:52 <Zakim> ... GK
Zakim IRC Bot: ... GK ←
16:28:53 <Zakim> On IRC I see GK, GK1, zednik, stain_, khalidbelhajjame, SamCoppens, dcorsar, satya, Edoardo, smiles, jcheney, tlebo, Yogesh, StephenCresswell, Curt, pgroth, RRSAgent, Luc, MacTed,
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see GK, GK1, zednik, stain_, khalidbelhajjame, SamCoppens, dcorsar, satya, Edoardo, smiles, jcheney, tlebo, Yogesh, StephenCresswell, Curt, pgroth, RRSAgent, Luc, MacTed, ←
16:28:56 <Zakim> ... mdmdm, stain, Zakim, trackbot, sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: ... mdmdm, stain, Zakim, trackbot, sandro ←
16:29:05 <tlebo> satya: pubrulling doc
Satya Sahoo: pubrulling doc ←
16:29:21 <tlebo> satya: how frozen is the HTML now?
Satya Sahoo: how frozen is the HTML now? ←
16:29:48 <pgroth> +q
Paul Groth: +q ←
16:29:51 <tlebo> satya: restructuring, text, responding to new DM.
Satya Sahoo: restructuring, text, responding to new DM. ←
16:30:10 <tlebo> luc: constrain to spell check changes.
Luc Moreau: constrain to spell check changes. ←
16:30:15 <pgroth> ack pgroth
Paul Groth: ack pgroth ←
16:30:31 <tlebo> luc: make a branch for fpwd and keep editing head.
Luc Moreau: make a branch for fpwd and keep editing head. ←
16:30:31 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:30:52 <smiles> q+
Simon Miles: q+ ←
16:30:56 <tlebo> luc: satya waiting for sandro's review
Luc Moreau: satya waiting for sandro's review ←
16:31:00 <Luc> ack smi
Luc Moreau: ack smi ←
16:31:25 <tlebo> simonm: things in primer but not up to date in model (e.g. derivation) they should not be changed in PWD?
Simon Miles: things in primer but not up to date in model (e.g. derivation) they should not be changed in PWD? ←
16:31:43 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:31:44 <tlebo> luc: cannot make changes b/c we voted on its release
Luc Moreau: cannot make changes b/c we voted on its release ←
16:32:01 <Luc> topic: prov-sem
Summary: James C is aiming to produce a revised version of its semantics, based on the latest prov-dm, by Dec 19th. This will be a good document to review by those interested in semantics. Then we will decide how to continue efforts.
<luc>Summary: James C is aiming to produce a revised version of its semantics, based on the latest prov-dm, by Dec 19th. This will be a good document to review by those interested in semantics. Then we will decide how to continue efforts.
16:32:20 <tlebo> luc: time to kick start prov-sem
Luc Moreau: time to kick start prov-sem ←
16:32:22 <stain_> shoulid be ok with edit adding disclaimer about mismatching terminology
Stian Soiland-Reyes: shoulid be ok with edit adding disclaimer about mismatching terminology ←
16:33:04 <Zakim> -stain
Zakim IRC Bot: -stain ←
16:33:16 <tlebo> jcheney: need to start writing.
James Cheney: need to start writing. ←
16:33:36 <Zakim> +[ISI]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[ISI] ←
16:33:44 <tlebo> ... will work through other documents and piece together semantics.
... will work through other documents and piece together semantics. ←
16:34:15 <Zakim> +??P14
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P14 ←
16:34:28 <paolo> zakim, ??P14 i sme
Paolo Missier: zakim, ??P14 i sme ←
16:34:28 <Zakim> I don't understand '??P14 i sme', paolo
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand '??P14 i sme', paolo ←
16:34:36 <paolo> zakim, ??P14 is me
Paolo Missier: zakim, ??P14 is me ←
16:34:36 <Zakim> +paolo; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +paolo; got it ←
16:34:56 <tlebo> jcheney: start writing myself or do regular telecons?
James Cheney: start writing myself or do regular telecons? ←
16:35:11 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:35:18 <pgroth> q+
Paul Groth: q+ ←
16:35:39 <Luc> ack pgr
Luc Moreau: ack pgr ←
16:35:47 <tlebo> pgroth: last week we discussed two possibilities. before xmas, outline direction?
Paul Groth: last week we discussed two possibilities. before xmas, outline direction? ←
16:36:00 <tlebo> jcheney: sounds good
James Cheney: sounds good ←
16:36:01 <satya> @paul, +1
Satya Sahoo: @paul, +1 ←
16:38:11 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:38:33 <tlebo> luc: looking forward to prov-sem, good to exercise dm
Luc Moreau: looking forward to prov-sem, good to exercise dm ←
16:38:49 <tlebo> jcheney: if anyone is interested, please let me know.
James Cheney: if anyone is interested, please let me know. ←
16:38:49 <satya> @James, I will be happy to work with you since it overlaps with PROV-O semantics
Satya Sahoo: @James, I will be happy to work with you since it overlaps with PROV-O semantics ←
16:39:15 <jcheney> @satya: Thanks
James Cheney: @satya: Thanks ←
16:39:29 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:39:37 <paolo> I will have to catch up but am def. interested
Paolo Missier: I will have to catch up but am def. interested ←
16:40:04 <khalidbelhajjame> I can but in 2 weeks
Khalid Belhajjame: I can but in 2 weeks ←
16:40:15 <pgroth> you'll send it on the list?
Paul Groth: you'll send it on the list? ←
16:40:25 <tlebo> please announce on list.
please announce on list. ←
16:41:19 <tlebo> jcheney: will have non-members review as well.
James Cheney: will have non-members review as well. ←
16:41:44 <paolo> me also available in 2 wks due to teaching semester endgame
Paolo Missier: me also available in 2 wks due to teaching semester endgame ←
16:41:57 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:42:35 <pgroth> +q
Paul Groth: +q ←
16:42:45 <tlebo> jcheney: draft on 19th?
James Cheney: draft on 19th? ←
16:43:20 <Luc> ack pg
Luc Moreau: ack pg ←
16:43:49 <tlebo> santa cheney is bringing semantics
santa cheney is bringing semantics ←
16:45:06 <tlebo> luc: F2F2 needs to identify the work to do on prov-dm before last call release
Luc Moreau: F2F2 needs to identify the work to do on prov-dm before last call release ←
16:45:13 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:46:12 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:46:18 <tlebo> luc: discuss complementarity?
Luc Moreau: discuss complementarity? ←
16:46:23 <paolo> good idea
Paolo Missier: good idea ←
16:46:29 <pgroth> let's use the time
Paul Groth: let's use the time ←
16:46:30 <jcheney> happy to have discussion (or lurk)
James Cheney: happy to have discussion (or lurk) ←
16:46:50 <Zakim> -Yogesh
Zakim IRC Bot: -Yogesh ←
16:46:51 <tlebo> topic: complementarity
Summary: As we had covered the agenda, we started a discussion on Complementarity, ahead of the planned work for prov-dm WD3. We put forward a number of proposals to get a feel for what the WG thought about this relation. It seems that the current definition is not satisfactory, but proposals that were circulated seem conflicting. It was suggested that we need use cases to drive the design of this notion. A wiki page was created and WG members are invited to contribute to it.
<luc>Summary: As we had covered the agenda, we started a discussion on Complementarity, ahead of the planned work for prov-dm WD3. We put forward a number of proposals to get a feel for what the WG thought about this relation. It seems that the current definition is not satisfactory, but proposals that were circulated seem conflicting. It was suggested that we need use cases to drive the design of this notion. A wiki page was created and WG members are invited to contribute to it.
16:47:43 <Luc> Proposal 1. wasComplementOf in WD is fine. No change required. Proposal 2. name of wasComplementOf to be changed, definition is fine. Proposal 3. wasComplementOf is not required. It should be dropped from prov-dm like all constraints associated with attributes. Proposal 4. WasComplementOf in current working draft is asymmetric. It should be replaced by a symmetric relation. Name to be determined. Proposal 5. WasComplementOf in current w
Luc Moreau: Proposal 1. wasComplementOf in WD is fine. No change required. Proposal 2. name of wasComplementOf to be changed, definition is fine. Proposal 3. wasComplementOf is not required. It should be dropped from prov-dm like all constraints associated with attributes. Proposal 4. WasComplementOf in current working draft is asymmetric. It should be replaced by a symmetric relation. Name to be determined. Proposal 5. WasComplementOf in current w ←
16:47:43 <GK> @pgroth - I'm having problems with the CSS validator - stuff that works seems to be not valid, and the messages don't seem to correspond to the actual source.
Graham Klyne: @pgroth - I'm having problems with the CSS validator - stuff that works seems to be not valid, and the messages don't seem to correspond to the actual source. ←
16:47:57 <Luc> Proposal 1. wasComplementOf in WD is fine. No change required.
Luc Moreau: Proposal 1. wasComplementOf in WD is fine. No change required. ←
16:47:58 <pgroth> @GK arg
Paul Groth: @GK arg ←
16:48:01 <Luc> Proposal 2. name of wasComplementOf to be changed, definition is fine.
Luc Moreau: Proposal 2. name of wasComplementOf to be changed, definition is fine. ←
16:48:04 <Zakim> -MacTed
Zakim IRC Bot: -MacTed ←
16:48:06 <Luc> Proposal 3. wasComplementOf is not required. It should be dropped from prov-dm like all constraints associated with attributes.
Luc Moreau: Proposal 3. wasComplementOf is not required. It should be dropped from prov-dm like all constraints associated with attributes. ←
16:48:10 <pgroth> @GK do you want me to give it go?
Paul Groth: @GK do you want me to give it go? ←
16:48:12 <Luc> Proposal 4. WasComplementOf in current working draft is asymmetric. It should be replaced by a symmetric relation. Name to be determined.
Luc Moreau: Proposal 4. WasComplementOf in current working draft is asymmetric. It should be replaced by a symmetric relation. Name to be determined. ←
16:48:16 <Luc> Proposal 5. WasComplementOf in current working draft is asymmetric. It should be kept, but a symmetric relation introduced. Name(s) to be determined.
Luc Moreau: Proposal 5. WasComplementOf in current working draft is asymmetric. It should be kept, but a symmetric relation introduced. Name(s) to be determined. ←
16:48:41 <pgroth> paolo mute
Paul Groth: paolo mute ←
16:48:47 <pgroth> please
Paul Groth: please ←
16:49:08 <pgroth> zakim, who is loud?
Paul Groth: zakim, who is loud? ←
16:49:08 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, pgroth.
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand your question, pgroth. ←
16:49:14 <pgroth> zakim, who is noisy?
Paul Groth: zakim, who is noisy? ←
16:49:25 <Zakim> pgroth, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: paolo (35%), Luc (63%)
Zakim IRC Bot: pgroth, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: paolo (35%), Luc (63%) ←
16:49:26 <GK> @pgroth If I can't nail it in the next 20-30 mins, yes please.
Graham Klyne: @pgroth If I can't nail it in the next 20-30 mins, yes please. ←
16:49:33 <pgroth> ok will do
Paul Groth: ok will do ←
16:49:49 <paolo> zakim, who is noisy?
Paolo Missier: zakim, who is noisy? ←
16:49:55 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:49:56 <smiles> +Proposal 4 or 5
Simon Miles: +Proposal 4 or 5 ←
16:50:05 <Zakim> paolo, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Luc (54%)
Zakim IRC Bot: paolo, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Luc (54%) ←
16:50:10 <smiles> q+
Simon Miles: q+ ←
16:50:11 <khalidbelhajjame> +1 Proposal 5
Khalid Belhajjame: +1 Proposal 5 ←
16:50:16 <GK> I'd support an asymmetric transitive rel;ation (with a different name)
Graham Klyne: I'd support an asymmetric transitive rel;ation (with a different name) ←
16:50:16 <tlebo> I don't support any of these proposals. wasComplementOf skirts around the issue that viewOf can address directly.
I don't support any of these proposals. wasComplementOf skirts around the issue that viewOf can address directly. ←
16:50:35 <pgroth> Proposal 4 is better
Paul Groth: Proposal 4 is better ←
16:50:47 <pgroth> +q
Paul Groth: +q ←
16:50:54 <StephenCresswell> +1 for proposal 5
Stephen Cresswell: +1 for proposal 5 ←
16:51:12 <paolo> q?
Paolo Missier: q? ←
16:51:20 <Luc> ack smi
Luc Moreau: ack smi ←
16:51:48 <jcheney> q+
James Cheney: q+ ←
16:52:05 <tlebo> an Entity being a projection of another makes sense.
an Entity being a projection of another makes sense. ←
16:52:10 <tlebo> (oops, forgot my scribe role)
(oops, forgot my scribe role) ←
16:52:20 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:52:32 <paolo> q+
Paolo Missier: q+ ←
16:52:40 <tlebo> smiles said something earilier - can you note it @smiles?
smiles said something earilier - can you note it @smiles? ←
16:52:55 <Luc> ack pgr
Luc Moreau: ack pgr ←
16:53:20 <StephenCresswell> +q
Stephen Cresswell: +q ←
16:53:28 <tlebo> pgroth time intervals and semantics are complicated. but it can be simply "a view of a thing that has anothere view _here_"
pgroth time intervals and semantics are complicated. but it can be simply "a view of a thing that has anothere view _here_" ←
16:53:44 <smiles> It seems helpful in general to be able to express complement/view relations, but having asymmetric and symmetric all in one concept is too confusing
Simon Miles: It seems helpful in general to be able to express complement/view relations, but having asymmetric and symmetric all in one concept is too confusing ←
16:54:03 <tlebo> jcheney: this will need to be addressed heavily in semantics.
James Cheney: this will need to be addressed heavily in semantics. ←
16:54:18 <tlebo> @smiles thanks.
@smiles thanks. ←
16:54:22 <GK> @smiles - yes. I'm still not understanding the use of the symmetric form.
Graham Klyne: @smiles - yes. I'm still not understanding the use of the symmetric form. ←
16:54:26 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:54:28 <Luc> ack jc
Luc Moreau: ack jc ←
16:54:58 <tlebo> paolo: viewOf assymetric vs. complementOf symmetric.
Paolo Missier: viewOf assymetric vs. complementOf symmetric. ←
16:55:14 <pgroth> q+ for a use case
Paul Groth: q+ for a use case ←
16:55:23 <GK> @paolo +1 (lack of strong motivating use case)
Graham Klyne: @paolo +1 (lack of strong motivating use case) ←
16:55:29 <satya> Following up on Proposal 3. wasComplementOf is not required. It should be dropped from prov-dm like all constraints associated with attributes. - how is viewOf important from perspective of provenance?
Satya Sahoo: Following up on Proposal 3. wasComplementOf is not required. It should be dropped from prov-dm like all constraints associated with attributes. - how is viewOf important from perspective of provenance? ←
16:55:30 <tlebo> paolo: needs motivating examples for views, etc.
Paolo Missier: needs motivating examples for views, etc. ←
16:55:59 <pgroth> it is needed
Paul Groth: it is needed ←
16:56:01 <Luc> what about writing use cases on http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ComplementarityUseCases
Luc Moreau: what about writing use cases on http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ComplementarityUseCases ←
16:56:04 <tlebo> I have a viewOf example.
I have a viewOf example. ←
16:56:38 <GK> (For me, the motivation is that the view concept underpins the constraining relationship between Entities/Resources)
Graham Klyne: (For me, the motivation is that the view concept underpins the constraining relationship between Entities/Resources) ←
16:56:38 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:56:40 <tlebo> luc: please aggregate use cases for complementarity
Luc Moreau: please aggregate use cases for complementarity ←
16:56:50 <Luc> ack pao
Luc Moreau: ack pao ←
16:57:05 <Zakim> -Curt_Tilmes
Zakim IRC Bot: -Curt_Tilmes ←
16:57:35 <tlebo> stephen - shorter term views of another entity. luc in boston, southhampton.
stephen - shorter term views of another entity. luc in boston, southhampton. ←
16:57:40 <GK> @Stephen +1
Graham Klyne: @Stephen +1 ←
16:58:01 <tlebo> stephen: temporal containment, contained entity having more invariant attributes. we lost that when we went to complement of.
Stephen Cresswell: temporal containment, contained entity having more invariant attributes. we lost that when we went to complement of. ←
16:58:05 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:58:14 <tlebo> stephen: two complements are refering to the same real world thing.
Stephen Cresswell: two complements are refering to the same real world thing. ←
16:58:18 <tlebo> +1 to having both.
+1 to having both. ←
16:58:33 <tlebo> stephen: make a symmetric and assymetric.
Stephen Cresswell: make a symmetric and assymetric. ←
16:58:36 <Luc> ack steph
Luc Moreau: ack steph ←
16:58:39 <satya> @Stephen: So, your example is related to contextualizing entities
Satya Sahoo: @Stephen: So, your example is related to contextualizing entities ←
16:58:55 <paolo> @Stephen -- I would agree to having both, separately, and each with a clear semantics
Paolo Missier: @Stephen -- I would agree to having both, separately, and each with a clear semantics ←
16:59:04 <Luc> ack pg
Luc Moreau: ack pg ←
16:59:04 <Zakim> pgroth, you wanted to discuss a use case
Zakim IRC Bot: pgroth, you wanted to discuss a use case ←
16:59:20 <tlebo> q+ concerned that viewOf and wasCOmplement of being distinguished by assymetric and symmetric
q+ concerned that viewOf and wasCOmplement of being distinguished by assymetric and symmetric ←
16:59:45 <tlebo> pgroth: RPI guys are talking FRBR, we talk about provenance at different levels of abstraction.
Paul Groth: RPI guys are talking FRBR, we talk about provenance at different levels of abstraction. ←
16:59:51 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:59:57 <tlebo> pgroth: is complemetn the only wah to say it?
Paul Groth: is complemetn the only wah to say it? ←
17:00:10 <GK> I'm not convinced the FRBR levels are really complement/view retared
Graham Klyne: I'm not convinced the FRBR levels are really complement/view related ←
17:00:37 <GK> s/retared/related/
17:01:08 <GK> @tlebo +1
Graham Klyne: @tlebo +1 ←
17:01:08 <Luc> my concern now is a heavy reliance on attributes, which do not have any semantic constraint now in prov-dm
Luc Moreau: my concern now is a heavy reliance on attributes, which do not have any semantic constraint now in prov-dm ←
17:01:34 <paolo> it's symmetric in the PROV-DM
Paolo Missier: it's symmetric in the PROV-DM ←
17:01:39 <GK> ( I see that asymmetry is a consequence rather than a fundamental driver)
Graham Klyne: ( I see that asymmetry is a consequence rather than a fundamental driver) ←
17:01:57 <paolo> q?
Paolo Missier: q? ←
17:02:53 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller] ←
17:03:20 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
17:03:33 <GK> I'm not sure this was ever about derivation.
Graham Klyne: I'm not sure this was ever about derivation. ←
17:04:09 <tlebo> I agree, @gk
I agree, @gk ←
17:04:10 <satya> @GK, Tim, Exactly, I am now confused how complementOf is related to QualifiedInvolvement?
Satya Sahoo: @GK, Tim, Exactly, I am now confused how complementOf is related to QualifiedInvolvement? ←
17:04:26 <Zakim> -khalidbelhajjame
Zakim IRC Bot: -khalidbelhajjame ←
17:04:29 <Zakim> -jcheney
Zakim IRC Bot: -jcheney ←
17:04:31 <Zakim> -paolo
Zakim IRC Bot: -paolo ←
17:04:33 <Zakim> - +1.315.330.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.315.330.aaaa ←
17:04:34 <Zakim> -Satya_Sahoo
Zakim IRC Bot: -Satya_Sahoo ←
17:04:37 <Zakim> -SamCoppens
Zakim IRC Bot: -SamCoppens ←
17:04:41 <Zakim> -[ISI]
Zakim IRC Bot: -[ISI] ←
17:04:48 <Zakim> -Luc
Zakim IRC Bot: -Luc ←
17:04:50 <Luc> @tlebo, i will invoke the necessary commands, thanks for scribing!
Luc Moreau: @tlebo, i will invoke the necessary commands, thanks for scribing! ←
17:04:54 <Zakim> -pgroth
Zakim IRC Bot: -pgroth ←
17:04:55 <Zakim> -??P12
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P12 ←
17:05:16 <Zakim> - +1.518.633.aacc
Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.518.633.aacc ←
17:06:40 <Luc> action on Satya to agree to close PROV-ISSUE-49 , PROV-ISSUE-50 , PROV-ISSUE-101, PROV-ISSUE-105, PROV-ISSUE-125, PROV-ISSUE-126, PROV-ISSUE-100, PROV-ISSUE-101 , PROV-ISSUE-127
Luc Moreau: action on Satya to agree to close PROV-ISSUE-49 , PROV-ISSUE-50 , PROV-ISSUE-101, PROV-ISSUE-105, PROV-ISSUE-125, PROV-ISSUE-126, PROV-ISSUE-100, PROV-ISSUE-101 , PROV-ISSUE-127 ←
17:06:40 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - on
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - on ←
17:06:54 <Luc> action Satya to agree to close PROV-ISSUE-49 , PROV-ISSUE-50 , PROV-ISSUE-101, PROV-ISSUE-105, PROV-ISSUE-125, PROV-ISSUE-126, PROV-ISSUE-100, PROV-ISSUE-101 , PROV-ISSUE-127
Luc Moreau: action Satya to agree to close PROV-ISSUE-49 , PROV-ISSUE-50 , PROV-ISSUE-101, PROV-ISSUE-105, PROV-ISSUE-125, PROV-ISSUE-126, PROV-ISSUE-100, PROV-ISSUE-101 , PROV-ISSUE-127 ←
17:06:55 <trackbot> Created ACTION-47 - Agree to close PROV-ISSUE-49 , PROV-ISSUE-50 , PROV-ISSUE-101, PROV-ISSUE-105, PROV-ISSUE-125, PROV-ISSUE-126, PROV-ISSUE-100, PROV-ISSUE-101 , PROV-ISSUE-127 [on Satya Sahoo - due 2011-12-08].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-47 - Agree to close PROV-ISSUE-49 , PROV-ISSUE-50 , PROV-ISSUE-101, PROV-ISSUE-105, PROV-ISSUE-125, PROV-ISSUE-126, PROV-ISSUE-100, PROV-ISSUE-101 , PROV-ISSUE-127 [on Satya Sahoo - due 2011-12-08]. ←
17:07:07 <Luc> Action Yolanda: agree to close PROV-ISSUE-129, PROV-ISSUE-130
Luc Moreau: Action Yolanda: agree to close PROV-ISSUE-129, PROV-ISSUE-130 ←
17:07:07 <trackbot> Created ACTION-48 - Agree to close PROV-ISSUE-129, PROV-ISSUE-130 [on Yolanda Gil - due 2011-12-08].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-48 - Agree to close PROV-ISSUE-129, PROV-ISSUE-130 [on Yolanda Gil - due 2011-12-08]. ←
17:07:33 <Luc> Action TimLebo: agree to close PROV-ISSUE-142, PROV-ISSUE-156, PROV-ISSUE-158, PROV-ISSUE-160, PROV-ISSUE-161
Luc Moreau: Action TimLebo: agree to close PROV-ISSUE-142, PROV-ISSUE-156, PROV-ISSUE-158, PROV-ISSUE-160, PROV-ISSUE-161 ←
17:07:33 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - TimLebo
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - TimLebo ←
17:07:43 <Luc> Action tlebo: agree to close PROV-ISSUE-142, PROV-ISSUE-156, PROV-ISSUE-158, PROV-ISSUE-160, PROV-ISSUE-161
Luc Moreau: Action tlebo: agree to close PROV-ISSUE-142, PROV-ISSUE-156, PROV-ISSUE-158, PROV-ISSUE-160, PROV-ISSUE-161 ←
17:07:43 <trackbot> Created ACTION-49 - agree to close PROV-ISSUE-142, PROV-ISSUE-156, PROV-ISSUE-158, PROV-ISSUE-160, PROV-ISSUE-161 [on Timothy Lebo - due 2011-12-08].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-49 - agree to close PROV-ISSUE-142, PROV-ISSUE-156, PROV-ISSUE-158, PROV-ISSUE-160, PROV-ISSUE-161 [on Timothy Lebo - due 2011-12-08]. ←
17:07:58 <Luc> rrsagent, set log public
Luc Moreau: rrsagent, set log public ←
17:08:08 <Luc> rrsagent, draft minutes
Luc Moreau: rrsagent, draft minutes ←
17:08:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-prov-minutes.html Luc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-prov-minutes.html Luc ←
17:08:17 <Luc> trackbot, end telcon
Luc Moreau: trackbot, end telcon ←
17:08:17 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, list attendees ←
17:08:17 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been pgroth, Curt_Tilmes, Luc, +1.315.330.aaaa, stain, +1.213.290.aabb, [IPcaller], jcheney, Yogesh, Satya_Sahoo, SamCoppens, khalidbelhajjame,
Zakim IRC Bot: As of this point the attendees have been pgroth, Curt_Tilmes, Luc, +1.315.330.aaaa, stain, +1.213.290.aabb, [IPcaller], jcheney, Yogesh, Satya_Sahoo, SamCoppens, khalidbelhajjame, ←
17:08:18 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, please draft minutes ←
17:08:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-prov-minutes.html trackbot
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-prov-minutes.html trackbot ←
17:08:19 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, bye ←
17:08:19 <RRSAgent> I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-prov-actions.rdf :
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-prov-actions.rdf : ←
17:08:19 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Yolanda to agree to close PROV-ISSUE-129, PROV-ISSUE-130 [1]
ACTION: Yolanda to agree to close PROV-ISSUE-129, PROV-ISSUE-130 [1] ←
17:08:19 <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-prov-irc#T17-07-07
RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-prov-irc#T17-07-07 ←
17:08:19 <RRSAgent> ACTION: TimLebo to agree to close PROV-ISSUE-142, PROV-ISSUE-156, PROV-ISSUE-158, PROV-ISSUE-160, PROV-ISSUE-161 [2]
ACTION: TimLebo to agree to close PROV-ISSUE-142, PROV-ISSUE-156, PROV-ISSUE-158, PROV-ISSUE-160, PROV-ISSUE-161 [2] ←
17:08:19 <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-prov-irc#T17-07-33
RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-prov-irc#T17-07-33 ←
17:08:19 <RRSAgent> ACTION: tlebo to agree to close PROV-ISSUE-142, PROV-ISSUE-156, PROV-ISSUE-158, PROV-ISSUE-160, PROV-ISSUE-161 [3]
ACTION: tlebo to agree to close PROV-ISSUE-142, PROV-ISSUE-156, PROV-ISSUE-158, PROV-ISSUE-160, PROV-ISSUE-161 [3] ←
17:08:19 <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-prov-irc#T17-07-43
RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-prov-irc#T17-07-43 ←
17:08:20 <Zakim> ... +1.518.633.aacc, MacTed, GK, [ISI], paolo
Zakim IRC Bot: ... +1.518.633.aacc, MacTed, GK, [ISI], paolo ←
Formatted by CommonScribe
This revision (#3) generated 2011-12-06 15:13:30 UTC by 'unknown', comments: 'summaries '