The previous minutes were accepted; actions-12 is now closed.
Sessions for the F2F meeting have been identified. Detailed agenda will be posted the day before the meeting.
Eric reviewed progress. A good catalog of connections is being built up. It will be summarized at F2F1, and it is proposed to categorize contributions.
Implementation and Test Cases TF Plan to F2F1
Helena indicated that over 30 entries had been submitted. A summary will be presented at F2F1.
Access and Query TF Plan to F2F1
Simon circulated a summary of activities ahead of the meeting. A series of proposals, and comments on them, have been curated, and will be presented at the F2F meeting.
Paolo reviewed activities. A consolidated document, containing definitions for core concepts, and topics for discussion, has been produced. When the document is frozen, a notification will be sent to the mailing list. It was agreed that we shouldn't attempt to incorporate in this document definitions for other concepts that have not been discussed yet.
In the spirit of building up our understanding of concepts, agreement was reached on a few more properties. PIL is seen as an assertion language; derivation was defined; a set of event ordering constraints was adopted as a starting point to understand PIL. Consensus was not reached on a definition of Agent since the group is still undecided as to whether the concept should be defined independently of process execution or not.
14:42:52 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-prov-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-prov-irc ←
14:42:54 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world ←
14:42:56 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be ←
14:42:56 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot ←
14:42:57 <trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference
14:42:57 <trackbot> Date: 30 June 2011
14:43:02 <Luc> Zakim, this will be PROV
Luc Moreau: Zakim, this will be PROV ←
14:43:02 <Zakim> ok, Luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 17 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 17 minutes ←
14:43:15 <Luc> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.06.30
14:43:24 <Luc> Chair: Luc Moreau
14:43:29 <Luc> Scribe: Paolo Missier
(Scribe set to Paolo Missier)
14:43:53 <Luc> rrsagent, make logs public
Luc Moreau: rrsagent, make logs public ←
14:43:55 <Luc> Regrets: Daniel Garijo, Simon Miles, Yogesh Simmhan, James Cheney, Simon Dobson, Graham Klyne, Deborah McGuinness, Paulo Pinheiro da Silva, Timothy Lebo
14:44:15 <Luc> TOPIC: Admin
Summary: The previous minutes were accepted; actions-12 is now closed.
<luc> Summary:The previous minutes were accepted; actions-12 is now closed.
14:55:27 <Luc> zakim, who is here?
(No events recorded for 11 minutes)
Luc Moreau: zakim, who is here? ←
14:55:27 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has not yet started, Luc
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(PROV)11:00AM has not yet started, Luc ←
14:55:27 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Luc, stain, sandro, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see RRSAgent, Luc, stain, sandro, trackbot ←
14:56:39 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started ←
14:56:46 <Zakim> +??P4
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P4 ←
14:56:48 <Zakim> -??P4
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P4 ←
14:56:50 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(PROV)11:00AM has ended ←
14:56:50 <Zakim> Attendees were
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were ←
14:57:16 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started ←
14:57:23 <Zakim> +??P4
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P4 ←
14:57:28 <stain> hmmm
Stian Soiland-Reyes: hmmm ←
14:57:33 <stain> I'm the first participant??
Stian Soiland-Reyes: I'm the first participant?? ←
14:57:37 <Zakim> +Luc
Zakim IRC Bot: +Luc ←
14:57:40 <Luc> hi stain
Luc Moreau: hi stain ←
14:57:50 <stain> zakim, +??P4 is me
Stian Soiland-Reyes: zakim, +??P4 is me ←
14:57:50 <Zakim> sorry, stain, I do not recognize a party named '+??P4'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, stain, I do not recognize a party named '+??P4' ←
14:58:04 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[Microsoft] ←
14:58:08 <Luc> trackbot, start telcon
Luc Moreau: trackbot, start telcon ←
14:58:10 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world ←
14:58:11 <stain> zakim, +??P4 is me
Stian Soiland-Reyes: zakim, +??P4 is me ←
14:58:11 <Zakim> sorry, stain, I do not recognize a party named '+??P4'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, stain, I do not recognize a party named '+??P4' ←
14:58:12 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be ←
14:58:12 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot ←
14:58:13 <trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference
14:58:13 <trackbot> Date: 30 June 2011
14:58:24 <pgroth> Zakim, who is on the call?
Paul Groth: Zakim, who is on the call? ←
14:58:24 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P4, Luc, [Microsoft]
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see ??P4, Luc, [Microsoft] ←
14:58:38 <stain> Zakim: ??P4 is me
14:58:45 <pgroth> Zakim, who is on the call?
Paul Groth: Zakim, who is on the call? ←
14:58:45 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P4, Luc, [Microsoft]
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see ??P4, Luc, [Microsoft] ←
14:59:15 <pgroth> Zakim, [Microsoft] is me
Paul Groth: Zakim, [Microsoft] is me ←
14:59:16 <Zakim> +pgroth; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +pgroth; got it ←
14:59:34 <stain> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2011-23-06 is not there
Stian Soiland-Reyes: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2011-23-06 is not there ←
14:59:41 <Zakim> +??P18
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P18 ←
14:59:52 <Luc> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.06.30
Luc Moreau: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.06.30 ←
15:00:16 <Luc> zakim, who is here?
Luc Moreau: zakim, who is here? ←
15:00:16 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P4, Luc, pgroth, ??P18
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see ??P4, Luc, pgroth, ??P18 ←
15:00:20 <Zakim> On IRC I see zednik, Lena, SamCoppens, jorn, paolo, pgroth, jun, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, stain, sandro, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see zednik, Lena, SamCoppens, jorn, paolo, pgroth, jun, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, stain, sandro, trackbot ←
15:00:28 <Zakim> + +1.646.389.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.646.389.aaaa ←
15:00:30 <Zakim> +??P26
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P26 ←
15:00:36 <Zakim> + +1.832.386.aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.832.386.aabb ←
15:00:38 <paolo> zakim, ??P26 is me
zakim, ??P26 is me ←
15:00:39 <stain> Zakim, ??P4 is me
Stian Soiland-Reyes: Zakim, ??P4 is me ←
15:00:40 <Zakim> +paolo; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +paolo; got it ←
15:00:44 <Zakim> +stain; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +stain; got it ←
15:01:00 <Zakim> +??P22
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P22 ←
15:01:06 <Zakim> +??P33
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P33 ←
15:01:15 <Zakim> +SamCoppens
Zakim IRC Bot: +SamCoppens ←
15:01:30 <jorn> zakim, ??p18 is me
Jörn Hees: zakim, ??p18 is me ←
15:01:30 <Zakim> +jorn; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +jorn; got it ←
15:02:20 <Zakim> - +1.646.389.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.646.389.aaaa ←
15:02:39 <Luc> PROPOSED: to accept the minutes of 23 Jun telecon
PROPOSED: to accept the minutes of 23 Jun telecon ←
15:02:45 <Luc> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2011-23-06
Luc Moreau: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2011-23-06 ←
15:02:58 <stain> 404
Stian Soiland-Reyes: 404 ←
15:03:02 <tfrancart> URL does not work
Thomas Francart: URL does not work ←
15:03:05 <paolo> +1
+1 ←
15:03:09 <stain> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2011-06-23 is correct
Stian Soiland-Reyes: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2011-06-23 is correct ←
15:03:13 <Zakim> +[ISI]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[ISI] ←
15:03:14 <pgroth> \me it's really echoy or is that me
Paul Groth: \me it's really echoy or is that me ←
15:03:22 <jorn> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2011-06-23
Jörn Hees: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2011-06-23 ←
15:03:37 <paolo> the secodn link is fine
the second link is fine ←
15:03:38 <Zakim> + +1.518.633.aacc
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.518.633.aacc ←
15:03:53 <jorn> +1
15:03:57 <SamCoppens> +1
Sam Coppens: +1 ←
15:03:57 <paolo> +1
+1 ←
15:03:59 <tfrancart> +1
Thomas Francart: +1 ←
15:04:00 <Lena> +!
Helena Deus: +! ←
15:04:02 <Lena> +1
Helena Deus: +1 ←
15:04:04 <jorn> s/secodn/second/
15:04:07 <zednik> +1
Stephan Zednik: +1 ←
15:04:11 <StephenCresswell> +1
Stephen Cresswell: +1 ←
15:04:14 <stain> 0 - not had a chance to read it :)
Stian Soiland-Reyes: 0 - not had a chance to read it :) ←
15:04:32 <Zakim> +??P51
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P51 ←
15:04:36 <Zakim> +??P24
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P24 ←
15:04:44 <Luc> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/open
Luc Moreau: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/open ←
15:04:48 <jorn> zakim, please mute me
Jörn Hees: zakim, please mute me ←
15:04:48 <Zakim> jorn should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: jorn should now be muted ←
15:04:51 <Zakim> + +1.650.386.aadd - is perhaps ralphh
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.650.386.aadd - is perhaps ralphh ←
15:04:51 <paolo> luc: review open actions
Luc Moreau: review open actions ←
15:04:54 <jun> zakim, ??P24 is me
Jun Zhao: zakim, ??P24 is me ←
15:04:55 <Zakim> +jun; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +jun; got it ←
15:05:20 <paolo> Simon will report in the context of the PQA TF
Simon will report in the context of the PQA TF ←
15:05:31 <Zakim> + +1.509.375.aaee
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.509.375.aaee ←
15:05:47 <Luc> TOPIC: F2F Plan
Summary: Sessions for the F2F meeting have been identified. Detailed agenda will be posted the day before the meeting.
<luc>Summary: Sessions for the F2F meeting have been identified. Detailed agenda will be posted the day before the meeting.
15:05:51 <pgroth> please mute
Paul Groth: please mute ←
15:05:55 <Luc> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:F2F1Timetable
Luc Moreau: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:F2F1Timetable ←
15:05:58 <jorn> zakim, who is talking?
Jörn Hees: zakim, who is talking? ←
15:06:09 <Zakim> jorn, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: stain (54%), Luc (63%), SamCoppens (9%), ??P51 (57%)
Zakim IRC Bot: jorn, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: stain (54%), Luc (63%), SamCoppens (9%), ??P51 (57%) ←
15:06:24 <paolo> Luc: outline for the meeting has been drafted: 8 sessions, TF allocated to the sessions
Luc Moreau: outline for the meeting has been drafted: 8 sessions, TF allocated to the sessions ←
15:06:51 <paolo> Luc: 4 sessions to model, 2 to PAQ Tf, 1 to connection and implementation
Luc Moreau: 4 sessions to model, 2 to PAQ Tf, 1 to connection and implementation ←
15:07:11 <paolo> content of sessions unspecified, to provide max flexibility
content of sessions unspecified, to provide max flexibility ←
15:07:19 <Zakim> + +1.216.368.aaff
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.216.368.aaff ←
15:07:23 <paolo> agenda to be posted 1 day prior to meeting
agenda to be posted 1 day prior to meeting ←
15:07:54 <paolo> q+
q+ ←
15:07:55 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:08:09 <Luc> TOPIC: Connection TF Plan to F2F1
Summary: Eric reviewed progress. A good catalog of connections is being built up. It will be summarized at F2F1, and it is proposed to categorize contributions.
<luc>Summary: Eric reviewed progress. A good catalog of connections is being built up. It will be summarized at F2F1, and it is proposed to categorize contributions.
15:08:14 <paolo> q-
q- ←
15:08:32 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:09:25 <Luc> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/F2F1_Connection_Proposal
Luc Moreau: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/F2F1_Connection_Proposal ←
15:09:43 <paolo> Eric: happy with current proposals
Eric Stephan: happy with current proposals ←
15:09:50 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:09:54 <paolo> more contributions welcome
more contributions welcome ←
15:10:16 <paolo> Yolanda suggests to categorize contributions
Yolanda suggests to categorize contributions ←
15:10:23 <paolo> Eric: will be at meeting
Eric Stephan: will be at meeting ←
15:10:28 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:10:39 <Luc> TOPIC: Implementation and Test Cases TF Plan to F2F1
Summary: Helena indicated that over 30 entries had been submitted. A summary will be presented at F2F1.
<luc>Summary: Helena indicated that over 30 entries had been submitted. A summary will be presented at F2F1.
15:10:55 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:11:14 <paolo> Helena: 32 entries, plan is to consolidate
Helena Deus: 32 entries, plan is to consolidate ←
15:11:23 <paolo> and compile them in terms of importance
and compile them in terms of importance ←
15:11:29 <Zakim> + +1.217.417.aagg
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.217.417.aagg ←
15:11:36 <paolo> q+
q+ ←
15:11:42 <Luc> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/F2F1_Unit_Test_Proposal
Luc Moreau: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/F2F1_Unit_Test_Proposal ←
15:11:54 <Luc> ack paolo
Luc Moreau: ack paolo ←
15:11:57 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:13:00 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:13:24 <pgroth> +q
Paul Groth: +q ←
15:13:27 <paolo> Helena: institutions vary geographically and by sector. Stats will be provided
Helena Deus: institutions vary geographically and by sector. Stats will be provided ←
15:13:34 <Luc> ack pgroth
Luc Moreau: ack pgroth ←
15:13:59 <paolo> pgroth: wiki should record where the survey was sent -- which lists.
Paul Groth: wiki should record where the survey was sent -- which lists. ←
15:14:16 <tfrancart> I distributed it to 3 of our partners/clients
Thomas Francart: I distributed it to 3 of our partners/clients ←
15:14:39 <Zakim> -jorn
Zakim IRC Bot: -jorn ←
15:14:40 <pgroth> it's already done
Paul Groth: it's already done ←
15:14:51 <paolo> Luc: can we post the form itself on the wiki, so we don't depend on googledocs
Luc Moreau: can we post the form itself on the wiki, so we don't depend on googledocs ←
15:14:58 <Lena> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Implementation_and_Test_Cases_Task_Force
Helena Deus: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Implementation_and_Test_Cases_Task_Force ←
15:15:01 <Zakim> +??P17
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P17 ←
15:15:39 <stain> I see it
Stian Soiland-Reyes: I see it ←
15:15:40 <jorn> zakim, who is here?
Jörn Hees: zakim, who is here? ←
15:15:40 <Zakim> On the phone I see stain, Luc, pgroth, paolo, +1.832.386.aabb, ??P22, ??P33, SamCoppens, [ISI], +1.518.633.aacc, ??P51, jun, ralphh, +1.509.375.aaee, +1.216.368.aaff,
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see stain, Luc, pgroth, paolo, +1.832.386.aabb, ??P22, ??P33, SamCoppens, [ISI], +1.518.633.aacc, ??P51, jun, ralphh, +1.509.375.aaee, +1.216.368.aaff, ←
15:15:43 <Zakim> ... +1.217.417.aagg, ??P17
Zakim IRC Bot: ... +1.217.417.aagg, ??P17 ←
15:15:45 <Zakim> On IRC I see satya, ralphh, dcorsar, YolandaGil, StephenCresswell, tfrancart, zednik, Lena, SamCoppens, jorn, paolo, pgroth, jun, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, stain, sandro, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see satya, ralphh, dcorsar, YolandaGil, StephanCresswell, tfrancart, zednik, Lena, SamCoppens, jorn, paolo, pgroth, jun, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, stain, sandro, trackbot ←
15:16:08 <Lena> Questionnaire is available at http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Implementation_and_Test_Cases_Task_Force#W3C_Implementation_Stakeholder_Questionnaire
Helena Deus: Questionnaire is available at http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Implementation_and_Test_Cases_Task_Force#W3C_Implementation_Stakeholder_Questionnaire ←
15:16:09 <paolo> Helena, Stephen will attend F2F remotely
Helena, Stephan will attend F2F remotely ←
15:16:16 <stain> q+
Stian Soiland-Reyes: q+ ←
15:17:02 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:17:19 <Luc> TOPIC: Access and Query TF Plan to F2F1
Summary: Simon circulated a summary of activities ahead of the meeting. A series of proposals, and comments on them, have been curated, and will be presented at the F2F meeting.
<Luc> Summary: Simon circulated a summary of activities ahead of the meeting. A series of proposals, and comments on them, have been curated, and will be presented at the F2F meeting.
15:17:20 <pgroth> stain?
Paul Groth: stain? ←
15:17:21 <stain> q-
Stian Soiland-Reyes: q- ←
15:17:26 <Luc> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/F2F1_Access_and_Query_Proposal
Luc Moreau: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/F2F1_Access_and_Query_Proposal ←
15:17:27 <paolo> s/Stephen/Stephan/g
15:17:30 <paolo> (sorry about that)
(sorry about that) ←
15:17:31 <Luc> Simon's report: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011Jun/0477.html
Luc Moreau: Simon's report: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011Jun/0477.html ←
15:17:40 <stain> I just wanted to say something about if we will have WebEx or something from the meeting to get a videolink
Stian Soiland-Reyes: I just wanted to say something about if we will have WebEx or something from the meeting to get a videolink ←
15:18:02 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:18:14 <paolo> Simon not in the call, report posted (see link)
Simon not in the call, report posted (see link) ←
15:18:18 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:18:27 <paolo> no comments from group
no comments from group ←
15:18:37 <paolo> Simon, Yogesh will both be at F2F
Simon, Yogesh will both be at F2F ←
15:18:39 <Luc> TOPIC: Model TF Plan to F2F1
Summary: Paolo reviewed activities. A consolidated document, containing definitions for core concepts, and topics for discussion, has been produced. When the document is frozen, a notification will be sent to the mailing list. It was agreed that we shouldn't attempt to incorporate in this document definitions for other concepts that have not been discussed yet.
<Luc>Summary: Paolo reviewed activities. A consolidated document, containing definitions for core concepts, and topics for discussion, has been produced. When the document is frozen, a notification will be sent to the mailing list. It was agreed that we shouldn't attempt to incorporate in this document definitions for other concepts that have not been discussed yet.
15:19:23 <jun> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ConsolidatedConcepts
Jun Zhao: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ConsolidatedConcepts ←
15:19:31 <jun> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/F2F1_Model_Proposal
Jun Zhao: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/F2F1_Model_Proposal ←
15:20:02 <Luc> Scribe: Satya Sahoo
(Scribe set to Satya Sahoo)
15:20:37 <satya> Paolo: Consolidated the discussion about provenance concepts into one page (link posted by Jun)
Paolo Missier: Consolidated the discussion about provenance concepts into one page (link posted by Jun) ←
15:21:09 <satya> Paolo: All members of the TF contributed to the consolidation process
Paolo Missier: All members of the TF contributed to the consolidation process ←
15:22:24 <satya> Paolo: the TF did not add to the definition of a concept. Each provenance concept has three sections: a consolidated definition, examples from the Data Journalism example, and outstanding issues related to the provenance concept
Paolo Missier: the TF did not add to the definition of a concept. Each provenance concept has three sections: a consolidated definition, examples from the Data Journalism example, and outstanding issues related to the provenance concept ←
15:22:56 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:23:02 <satya> Paolo: Goal of this work is to present an unified view of the provenance concepts for further discussions during the F2F
Paolo Missier: Goal of this work is to present an unified view of the provenance concepts for further discussions during the F2F ←
15:23:15 <pgroth> +q
Paul Groth: +q ←
15:23:20 <ralphh> +q
Ralph Hodgson: +q ←
15:23:21 <Luc> ack pgroth
Luc Moreau: ack pgroth ←
15:23:50 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:24:01 <satya> pgroth: When will TF decide to freeze the wiki page with consolidated provenance concepts
Paul Groth: When will TF decide to freeze the wiki page with consolidated provenance concepts ←
15:24:44 <satya> Paolo: The wiki page is relatively stable, currently minor changes are being made
Paolo Missier: The wiki page is relatively stable, currently minor changes are being made ←
15:24:44 <Luc> ack ralphh
Luc Moreau: ack ralphh ←
15:25:06 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:25:25 <ralphh> http://www.linkedmodel.org/doc/voag/1.0/
Ralph Hodgson: http://www.linkedmodel.org/doc/voag/1.0/ ←
15:25:28 <pgroth> you just do it
Paul Groth: you just do it ←
15:25:30 <pgroth> :-)
Paul Groth: :-) ←
15:25:54 <paolo> ralphh: volunteers to join the TF
Ralph Hodgson: volunteers to join the TF [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ] ←
15:25:56 <paolo> model TF
Paolo Missier: model TF ←
15:26:00 <stain> just edit http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvenanceTaskForces
Stian Soiland-Reyes: just edit http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvenanceTaskForces ←
15:26:10 <jun> respond to the mailing list:)
Jun Zhao: respond to the mailing list:) ←
15:26:14 <satya> Ralph: How to join to the Model TF, have done previous work in modeling provenance issues
Ralph Hodgson: How to join to the Model TF, have done previous work in modeling provenance issues ←
15:26:22 <pgroth> q+
Paul Groth: q+ ←
15:27:31 <Luc> Scribe: Paolo Missier
Luc Moreau: Scribe: Paolo Missier ←
15:27:42 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:27:58 <Luc> ack pgroth
Luc Moreau: ack pgroth ←
15:28:08 <paolo> Ralph: will not be at F2F, but will contribute his past work to the TF
Ralph Hodgson: will not be at F2F, but will contribute his past work to the TF [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ] ←
15:28:33 <paolo> Luc: suggests Ralph to add his references to the Connection TF
Luc Moreau: suggests Ralph to add his references to the Connection TF [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ] ←
15:29:07 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:29:10 <paolo> Luc: 17 concepts were listed in the charter, 8 of those have been addressed in http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ConsolidatedConcepts
Luc Moreau: 17 concepts were listed in the charter, 8 of those have been addressed in http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ConsolidatedConcepts [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ] ←
15:29:10 <satya> q+
q+ ←
15:29:12 <stain> q+
Stian Soiland-Reyes: q+ ←
15:29:17 <paolo> what should be done about the others?
Paolo Missier: what should be done about the others? ←
15:29:19 <Luc> ack satya
Luc Moreau: ack satya ←
15:29:33 <paolo> Satya: pick up new concepts on only after the F2F
Satya Sahoo: pick up new concepts on only after the F2F [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ] ←
15:29:37 <stain> q- (ack satya)
Stian Soiland-Reyes: q- (ack satya) ←
15:29:43 <Luc> ack stain
Luc Moreau: ack stain ←
15:29:49 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:30:01 <paolo> Stian: agrees with Satya. We've got enough for the F2F
Stian Soiland-Reyes: agrees with Satya. We've got enough for the F2F [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ] ←
15:30:04 <paolo> q+
Paolo Missier: q+ ←
15:30:10 <Luc> ack paolo
Luc Moreau: ack paolo ←
15:30:25 <Zakim> -??P17
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P17 ←
15:30:36 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:30:42 <satya> Paolo: Discussion in F2F will bring out new concepts that should be taken up next by Wg
Paolo Missier: Discussion in F2F will bring out new concepts that should be taken up next by Wg ←
15:30:44 <Zakim> +??P17
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P17 ←
15:30:52 <jorn> zakim, ??p17 is me
Jörn Hees: zakim, ??p17 is me ←
15:30:52 <Zakim> +jorn; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +jorn; got it ←
15:31:02 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:31:11 <paolo> Luc: no further defs will be added to the current list before the F2F
Luc Moreau: no further defs will be added to the current list before the F2F [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ] ←
15:31:28 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:31:34 <paolo> Luc: acknowledges the hard work of the Model TF! :-)
Luc Moreau: acknowledges the hard work of the Model TF! :-) [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ] ←
15:31:34 <Luc> TOPIC: Model Task Force
Summary: In the spirit of building up our understanding of concepts, agreement was reached on a few more properties. PIL is seen as an assertion language; derivation was defined; a set of event ordering constraints was adopted as a starting point to understand PIL. Consensus was not reached on a definition of Agent since the group is still undecided as to whether the concept should be defined independently of process execution or not.
<luc>Summary: In the spirit of building up our understanding of concepts, agreement was reached on a few more properties. PIL is seen as an assertion language; derivation was defined; a set of event ordering constraints was adopted as a starting point to understand PIL. Consensus was not reached on a definition of Agent since the group is still undecided as to whether the concept should be defined independently of process execution or not.
15:32:19 <paolo> Luc: some terms still require consensus, it would help to make progress today
Luc Moreau: some terms still require consensus, it would help to make progress today [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ] ←
15:32:29 <Luc> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011Jun/0460.html
Luc Moreau: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011Jun/0460.html ←
15:33:02 <paolo> Luc: the idea is that PIL is an /assertion language/
Luc Moreau: the idea is that PIL is an /assertion language/ [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ] ←
15:33:22 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:33:25 <paolo> idea socialized on the list but little feedback so far
Paolo Missier: idea socialized on the list but little feedback so far ←
15:33:32 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:34:05 <paolo> Jim Myers: that's fine, but what does that do for us?
Paolo Missier: Jim Myers: that's fine, but what does that do for us? ←
15:34:51 <paolo> Luc: recurrent theme is that there are "asserters" in our definitions. So we may as well make it explicit upfront
Luc Moreau: recurrent theme is that there are "asserters" in our definitions. So we may as well make it explicit upfront [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ] ←
15:35:24 <paolo> Jim: the idea of multiple witnesses that we agree on is aligned with this, so as a convenience that's fine
James Myers: the idea of multiple witnesses that we agree on is aligned with this, so as a convenience that's fine [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ] ←
15:35:27 <satya> q+
q+ ←
15:35:30 <tfrancart> q+
Thomas Francart: q+ ←
15:35:34 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:35:37 <Luc> ack satya
Luc Moreau: ack satya ←
15:36:13 <paolo> Satya: to follow up: if we see PIL in the RDF context, it follows naturally
Satya Sahoo: to follow up: if we see PIL in the RDF context, it follows naturally [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ] ←
15:36:23 <pgroth> stating the obvious isn't a bad thing ;-)
Paul Groth: stating the obvious isn't a bad thing ;-) ←
15:36:30 <paolo> Luc: yes, but for a different serialization this may be less obvious
Luc Moreau: yes, but for a different serialization this may be less obvious [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ] ←
15:36:34 <paolo> q+
Paolo Missier: q+ ←
15:36:34 <satya> ok
ok ←
15:37:01 <paolo> Thomas: shouldn't we also define rules (inference) that come with assertions?
Thomas Francart: shouldn't we also define rules (inference) that come with assertions? [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ] ←
15:37:39 <paolo> Luc: this idea has been circulated, we currently are agnostic regarding the types of assertions -- rules may well be included
Luc Moreau: this idea has been circulated, we currently are agnostic regarding the types of assertions -- rules may well be included [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ] ←
15:37:43 <satya> @Thomas: Inference will require us to define the formal semantics of the PIL first
@Thomas: Inference will require us to define the formal semantics of the PIL first ←
15:37:49 <Luc> ack tfrancart
Luc Moreau: ack tfrancart ←
15:38:32 <satya> q+
q+ ←
15:38:33 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:39:25 <Luc> ack paolo
Luc Moreau: ack paolo ←
15:39:52 <Luc> ack satya
Luc Moreau: ack satya ←
15:40:22 <paolo> Satya: inference is a mechanism to produce new assertions, note that the Rule exchange language is standard with W3C
Satya Sahoo: inference is a mechanism to produce new assertions, note that the Rule exchange language is standard with W3C [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ] ←
15:40:41 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:40:42 <ralphh> +q
Ralph Hodgson: +q ←
15:40:44 <paolo> Satya: what is the rule language? we need a formal semantics for PIL before we can move on to rules
Satya Sahoo: what is the rule language? we need a formal semantics for PIL before we can move on to rules [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ] ←
15:41:10 <Zakim> - +1.217.417.aagg
Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.217.417.aagg ←
15:41:18 <paolo> Ralph: can we have a reference to PIL? how about refutation, conjecture in addition to asertion
Ralph Hodgson: can we have a reference to PIL? how about refutation, conjecture in addition to assertion [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ] ←
15:41:27 <paolo> s/asertion/assertion
15:41:29 <satya> W3C Rule Interchange Format recommendation: http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/RIF_Working_Group
W3C Rule Interchange Format recommendation: http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/RIF_Working_Group ←
15:41:40 <Luc> ack ralphh
Luc Moreau: ack ralphh ←
15:41:44 <paolo> Luc: PIL is what we are defining. it's a codename
Luc Moreau: PIL is what we are defining. it's a codename [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ] ←
15:42:04 <paolo> Luc: conjecture, refutation not part of charter but may well be discussed
Luc Moreau: conjecture, refutation not part of charter but may well be discussed [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ] ←
15:42:05 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:42:07 <jorn> q+
15:42:14 <Luc> PROPOSED: PIL is an assertion language, which allows asserters to make assertions about stuffs and activities in the real world (as they view it) and how they influence each other.
PROPOSED: PIL is an assertion language, which allows asserters to make assertions about stuffs and activities in the real world (as they view it) and how they influence each other. ←
15:42:28 <jorn> q-
15:42:29 <satya> +1
+1 ←
15:42:30 <stain> +1
Stian Soiland-Reyes: +1 ←
15:42:32 <tfrancart> +1
Thomas Francart: +1 ←
15:42:32 <zednik> +1
Stephan Zednik: +1 ←
15:42:35 <paolo> +1
Paolo Missier: +1 ←
15:42:37 <dcorsar> +1
David Corsar: +1 ←
15:42:42 <SamCoppens> +1
Sam Coppens: +1 ←
15:42:43 <ralphh> +1
Ralph Hodgson: +1 ←
15:42:44 <Lena> +1
Helena Deus: +1 ←
15:43:03 <Luc> ACCEPTED: PIL is an assertion language, which allows asserters to make assertions about stuffs and activities in the real world (as they view it) and how they influence each other.
RESOLVED: PIL is an assertion language, which allows asserters to make assertions about stuffs and activities in the real world (as they view it) and how they influence each other. ←
15:43:24 <Luc> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011Jun/0459.html
Luc Moreau: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011Jun/0459.html ←
15:43:38 <paolo> Luc: on the concept of Derivation
Luc Moreau: on the concept of Derivation [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ] ←
15:44:00 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:44:05 <paolo> Luc: any major objection to the proposal? (see link)
Luc Moreau: any major objection to the proposal? (see link) [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ] ←
15:44:13 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:44:29 <Luc> PROPOSED: Derivation represents how stuff is transformed from, created from, or affected by other stuff. A thing B is derived from a thing A if the values of some invariant properties of B are at least partially determined by the values of some invariant properties of A.
PROPOSED: Derivation represents how stuff is transformed from, created from, or affected by other stuff. A thing B is derived from a thing A if the values of some invariant properties of B are at least partially determined by the values of some invariant properties of A. ←
15:44:39 <stain> +1
Stian Soiland-Reyes: +1 ←
15:44:44 <jun> +1
15:44:46 <tfrancart> 0
Thomas Francart: 0 ←
15:44:51 <satya> +1
+1 ←
15:44:53 <dcorsar> +1
David Corsar: +1 ←
15:44:57 <SamCoppens> +1
Sam Coppens: +1 ←
15:45:01 <paolo> q+
Paolo Missier: q+ ←
15:45:02 <zednik> +q
Stephan Zednik: +q ←
15:45:09 <ralphh> +1
Ralph Hodgson: +1 ←
15:45:11 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:46:11 <Zakim> -jorn
Zakim IRC Bot: -jorn ←
15:46:12 <ralphh> q+
Ralph Hodgson: q+ ←
15:46:26 <Zakim> +??P17
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P17 ←
15:46:31 <Luc> ack paolo
Luc Moreau: ack paolo ←
15:47:05 <paolo> zednik: just looked at proposal. is Derivation is a relation or a thing?
Stephan Zednik: just looked at proposal. is Derivation is a relation or a thing? [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ] ←
15:47:14 <satya> @Stephan - I agree, derivation is a property
@Stephan - I agree, derivation is a property ←
15:47:22 <paolo> it ought to be a relation
Paolo Missier: it ought to be a relation ←
15:48:01 <stain> it sounds like a relation to me.. but which could also have deeper details (such as a link to a process execution)
Stian Soiland-Reyes: it sounds like a relation to me.. but which could also have deeper details (such as a link to a process execution) ←
15:48:06 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:48:20 <paolo> Luc: up for discussion at F2F. Others raised the issue
Luc Moreau: up for discussion at F2F. Others raised the issue [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ] ←
15:48:36 <pgroth> i guess it's just english
Paul Groth: i guess it's just english ←
15:48:36 <paolo> zednik: are we also saying /how/ something was derived?
Stephan Zednik: are we also saying /how/ something was derived? [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ] ←
15:48:48 <satya> @Stephan: The how part is not covered in derivation (my POV)
@Stephan: The how part is not covered in derivation (my POV) ←
15:49:16 <pgroth> the transformation of stuff from?
Paul Groth: the transformation of stuff from? ←
15:49:43 <Luc> PROPOSED: Derivation expresses that some stuff is transformed from, created from, or affected by other stuff. A thing B is derived from a thing A if the values of some invariant properties of B are at least partially determined by the values of some invariant properties of A.
PROPOSED: Derivation expresses that some stuff is transformed from, created from, or affected by other stuff. A thing B is derived from a thing A if the values of some invariant properties of B are at least partially determined by the values of some invariant properties of A. ←
15:49:53 <Luc> ack zednik
Luc Moreau: ack zednik ←
15:50:22 <paolo> Ralph: derivation is a transformation, but a reified relationship
Ralph Hodgson: derivation is a transformation, but a reified relationship [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ] ←
15:50:36 <jorn> one could always reificate more information onto the derivation statement, couldn't one?
Jörn Hees: one could always reificate more information onto the derivation statement, couldn't one? ←
15:50:58 <paolo> Ralph: affected by: opens up derivation in a bigger notion, not sure about the term "affect"
Ralph Hodgson: affected by: opens up derivation in a bigger notion, not sure about the term "affect" [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ] ←
15:51:46 <paolo> Luc: first sentence about high level idea of what Derivation is, clearly it's not formal
Luc Moreau: first sentence about high level idea of what Derivation is, clearly it's not formal [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ] ←
15:52:22 <Luc> ack
Luc Moreau: ack ←
15:52:23 <stain> What if we add "In PIL, a thing B is..."
Stian Soiland-Reyes: What if we add "In PIL, a thing B is..." ←
15:52:23 <paolo> Luc: second part triesd to explain what Derviation means wrt the constructs of the language. Says how Derivation can influence some properties
Luc Moreau: second part triesd to explain what Derviation means wrt the constructs of the language. Says how Derivation can influence some properties [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ] ←
15:52:24 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:52:29 <Luc> ack ralphh
Luc Moreau: ack ralphh ←
15:52:48 <stain> +1
Stian Soiland-Reyes: +1 ←
15:52:56 <jun> +1
15:53:02 <jorn> +1
15:53:05 <paolo> +1
Paolo Missier: +1 ←
15:53:15 <SamCoppens> +1
Sam Coppens: +1 ←
15:53:34 <zednik> +0 (undecided, I want to see in a use case example)
Stephan Zednik: +0 (undecided, I want to see in a use case example) ←
15:53:39 <ralphh> +1
Ralph Hodgson: +1 ←
15:53:46 <Lena> 0
Helena Deus: 0 ←
15:53:55 <tfrancart> 0 : not sure why it refers only to "invariant properties" ?
Thomas Francart: 0 : not sure why it refers only to "invariant properties" ? ←
15:53:56 <paolo> pgroth: reminder; 0 abstain , -1 for reject, +1 for accept
Paul Groth: reminder; 0 abstain , -1 for reject, +1 for accept [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ] ←
15:53:57 <Luc> ACCEPTED: Derivation expresses that some stuff is transformed from, created from, or affected by other stuff. A thing B is derived from a thing A if the values of some invariant properties of B are at least partially determined by the values of some invariant properties of A.
RESOLVED: Derivation expresses that some stuff is transformed from, created from, or affected by other stuff. A thing B is derived from a thing A if the values of some invariant properties of B are at least partially determined by the values of some invariant properties of A. ←
15:54:06 <paolo> q+
Paolo Missier: q+ ←
15:54:18 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:55:48 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:55:52 <Luc> ack paolo
Luc Moreau: ack paolo ←
15:56:41 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:57:08 <Luc> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011Jun/0439.html
Luc Moreau: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011Jun/0439.html ←
15:57:10 <paolo> Luc: need to have some education activity to make sure all the basic concepts are clear, including thing, invariant properties, etc.
Luc Moreau: need to have some education activity to make sure all the basic concepts are clear, including thing, invariant properties, etc. [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ] ←
15:57:37 <paolo> [sorry I missed Luc's sentences]
Paolo Missier: [sorry I missed Luc's sentences] ←
15:57:54 <Luc> PROPOSED: An agent is an active thing. It may be linked to a process execution, for example, by controlling it. Examples of agent include person, organization, and software agent.
PROPOSED: An agent is an active thing. It may be linked to a process execution, for example, by controlling it. Examples of agent include person, organization, and software agent. ←
15:58:08 <ralphh> +q
Ralph Hodgson: +q ←
15:58:11 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:58:43 <paolo> q+
Paolo Missier: q+ ←
15:58:58 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:59:02 <Luc> ack ralphh
Luc Moreau: ack ralphh ←
15:59:04 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:59:08 <pgroth> In pil: "things" represent real-world stuffs and have properties modeling aspects of stuff states
Paul Groth: In pil: "things" represent real-world stuffs and have properties modeling aspects of stuff states ←
15:59:37 <satya> Ralph: Many ontologies use the term "party" instead of agent
Ralph Hodgson: Many ontologies use the term "party" instead of agent ←
15:59:46 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:59:50 <Luc> ack paolo
Luc Moreau: ack paolo ←
15:59:55 <ralphh> instead of "Thing" not "Agent"
Ralph Hodgson: instead of "Thing" not "Agent" ←
15:59:59 <paolo> Ralph: Can we replace "thing" with "party" in the def?
Ralph Hodgson: Can we replace "thing" with "party" in the def? [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ] ←
15:59:59 <Luc> PROPOSED: An agent is an active thing. It may be linked to a process execution, for example, by controlling it. Examples of agent include person, organization, and software agent.
PROPOSED: An agent is an active thing. It may be linked to a process execution, for example, by controlling it. Examples of agent include person, organization, and software agent. ←
16:00:33 <paolo> Luc: "thing" is used in the technical sense of PIL
Luc Moreau: "thing" is used in the technical sense of PIL [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ] ←
16:00:45 <paolo> Satya: is linking an Agent to a process optional?
Satya Sahoo: is linking an Agent to a process optional? [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ] ←
16:00:58 <zednik> q+
Stephan Zednik: q+ ←
16:00:58 <paolo> Luc: def. is agnostic about it
Luc Moreau: def. is agnostic about it [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ] ←
16:01:37 <Zakim> -paolo
Zakim IRC Bot: -paolo ←
16:01:45 <Zakim> -[ISI]
Zakim IRC Bot: -[ISI] ←
16:01:49 <paolo> my skype crashed out
Paolo Missier: my skype crashed out ←
16:01:54 <Zakim> -??P17
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P17 ←
16:01:58 <paolo> sorry
Paolo Missier: sorry ←
16:01:59 <Luc> SCRIBE: Satya Sahoo
16:02:03 <Zakim> -SamCoppens
Zakim IRC Bot: -SamCoppens ←
16:02:16 <Zakim> +??P17
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P17 ←
16:02:39 <satya> Paolo: Definition of Agent will be debated further
Paolo Missier: Definition of Agent will be debated further ←
16:02:49 <satya> Paolo/Luc
Paolo/Luc ←
16:03:32 <satya> Luc: Discussion on notion of Time in previous WG telcon
Luc Moreau: Discussion on notion of Time in previous WG telcon ←
16:03:46 <Luc> n PIL, there are different kinds of events: beginning of process execution, end of process execution, generation of thing, use of thing, which satisfy some ordering, according to relation "precede":
Luc Moreau: n PIL, there are different kinds of events: beginning of process execution, end of process execution, generation of thing, use of thing, which satisfy some ordering, according to relation "precede": ←
16:04:36 <satya> Luc: Four events identified with respect to the concept of Time
Luc Moreau: Four events identified with respect to the concept of Time ←
16:05:07 <Zakim> - +1.509.375.aaee
Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.509.375.aaee ←
16:05:29 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:06:02 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:06:04 <stain> q+
Stian Soiland-Reyes: q+ ←
16:06:06 <satya> Luc: Is WG in agreement on the ordering constraints illustrated by the four events?
Luc Moreau: Is WG in agreement on the ordering constraints illustrated by the four events? ←
16:06:46 <pgroth> mailing list is good
Paul Groth: mailing list is good ←
16:06:47 <zednik> q-
Stephan Zednik: q- ←
16:06:52 <satya> zednik: Have comment on definition of Agent
Stephan Zednik: Have comment on definition of Agent ←
16:06:56 <Luc> ack stain
Luc Moreau: ack stain ←
16:07:40 <satya> Stian: w.r.t creation and use of a thing, are they associated with fixed point of time (?)
Stian Soiland-Reyes: w.r.t creation and use of a thing, are they associated with fixed point of time (?) ←
16:09:04 <satya> Luc: Stian's example of streaming video can be modeled as either as a series of Thing or a Thing
Luc Moreau: Stian's example of streaming video can be modeled as either as a series of Thing or a Thing ←
16:09:25 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:09:32 <satya> Stian: Agree with Luc's point
Stian Soiland-Reyes: Agree with Luc's point ←
16:09:37 <ralphh> q
Ralph Hodgson: q ←
16:09:38 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:09:44 <ralphh> q+
Ralph Hodgson: q+ ←
16:09:49 <pgroth> ralph
Paul Groth: ralph ←
16:10:31 <Luc> PROPOSED: we use the set of constraints as a starting point for defining the semantics of PIL
PROPOSED: we use the set of constraints as a starting point for defining the semantics of PIL ←
16:10:53 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:10:55 <satya> q+
q+ ←
16:11:28 <Luc> ack ralphh
Luc Moreau: ack ralphh ←
16:11:34 <satya> Ralph: Temporal logics has multiple ways of ordering, so there are more than four types of events
Ralph Hodgson: Temporal logics has multiple ways of ordering, so there are more than four types of events ←
16:11:49 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:12:13 <satya> Ralph: Will provide reference to multiple ordering of events
Ralph Hodgson: Will provide reference to multiple ordering of events ←
16:12:17 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:12:28 <Luc> ack satya
Luc Moreau: ack satya ←
16:12:50 <satya> Luc: This definition is similar to Lamport's paper
Luc Moreau: This definition is similar to Lamport's paper ←
16:14:25 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:14:26 <Lena> (apologies, I need to leave)
Helena Deus: (apologies, I need to leave) ←
16:14:42 <Luc> PROPOSED: we use the set of constraints as a starting point for defining the semantics of PIL
PROPOSED: we use the set of constraints as a starting point for defining the semantics of PIL ←
16:14:53 <Lena> +1
Helena Deus: +1 ←
16:14:58 <ralphh> +1
Ralph Hodgson: +1 ←
16:15:00 <stain> don't we need to agree on the constraints first?
Stian Soiland-Reyes: don't we need to agree on the constraints first? ←
16:15:06 <Zakim> - +1.832.386.aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.832.386.aabb ←
16:15:29 <satya> pgroth: Suggest removing "semantics"
Paul Groth: Suggest removing "semantics" ←
16:15:34 <Luc> PROPOSED: we use the set of constraints as a starting point for building an understanding of PIL
PROPOSED: we use the set of constraints as a starting point for building an understanding of PIL ←
16:15:41 <satya> +1
+1 ←
16:15:46 <jun> 0 (feels a bit premature to propose these constraints; but fine with using them as a starting point)
Jun Zhao: 0 (feels a bit premature to propose these constraints; but fine with using them as a starting point) ←
16:15:55 <stain> +1
Stian Soiland-Reyes: +1 ←
16:15:56 <tfrancart> +1
Thomas Francart: +1 ←
16:15:59 <zednik> +1
Stephan Zednik: +1 ←
16:16:01 <dcorsar> +1
David Corsar: +1 ←
16:16:16 <jorn> 0
16:16:23 <stain> @jun as we're not voting on the constraints themselves they are not set in stone
Stian Soiland-Reyes: @jun as we're not voting on the constraints themselves they are not set in stone ←
16:16:47 <stain> zednik: who?
Stephan Zednik: who? [ Scribe Assist by Stian Soiland-Reyes ] ←
16:16:49 <jun> @stain, yes agreed
Jun Zhao: @stain, yes agreed ←
16:16:50 <Luc> ACCEPTED: we use the set of constraints as a starting point for building an understanding of PIL
RESOLVED: we use the set of constraints as a starting point for building an understanding of PIL ←
16:16:51 <stain> Zakim: who?
16:16:58 <stain> Zakim: who is on the call?
16:17:03 <ralphh> On the subject of temporal relationships, Allen defined 13 - I will post some references
Ralph Hodgson: On the subject of temporal relationships, Allen defined 13 - I will post some references ←
16:17:20 <stain> q+
Stian Soiland-Reyes: q+ ←
16:17:25 <Zakim> -jun
Zakim IRC Bot: -jun ←
16:17:26 <Zakim> -??P17
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P17 ←
16:17:40 <Zakim> -??P22
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P22 ←
16:17:42 <Zakim> - +1.518.633.aacc
Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.518.633.aacc ←
16:17:44 <Zakim> -??P51
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P51 ←
16:17:45 <ralphh> bye
Ralph Hodgson: bye ←
16:17:49 <Zakim> - +1.216.368.aaff
Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.216.368.aaff ←
16:17:53 <ralphh> quit
Ralph Hodgson: quit ←
16:17:55 <Zakim> -pgroth
Zakim IRC Bot: -pgroth ←
16:17:57 <Zakim> -Luc
Zakim IRC Bot: -Luc ←
16:17:57 <Zakim> -stain
Zakim IRC Bot: -stain ←
16:18:09 <Zakim> -ralphh
Zakim IRC Bot: -ralphh ←
16:18:26 <stain> I wanted to ask if there will be a videolink or webex from the f2f - or just telcon link
Stian Soiland-Reyes: I wanted to ask if there will be a videolink or webex from the f2f - or just telcon link ←
16:18:40 <Luc> rrsagent, set log public
Luc Moreau: rrsagent, set log public ←
16:18:45 <pgroth> telcon only
Paul Groth: telcon only ←
16:18:51 <Luc> rrsagent, draft minutes
Luc Moreau: rrsagent, draft minutes ←
16:18:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-prov-minutes.html Luc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-prov-minutes.html Luc ←
16:18:59 <Luc> trackbot, end telcon
Luc Moreau: trackbot, end telcon ←
16:18:59 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, list attendees ←
16:18:59 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Luc, pgroth, +1.646.389.aaaa, +1.832.386.aabb, paolo, stain, SamCoppens, jorn, [ISI], +1.518.633.aacc, +1.650.386.aadd, jun,
Zakim IRC Bot: As of this point the attendees have been Luc, pgroth, +1.646.389.aaaa, +1.832.386.aabb, paolo, stain, SamCoppens, jorn, [ISI], +1.518.633.aacc, +1.650.386.aadd, jun, ←
16:19:00 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, please draft minutes ←
16:19:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-prov-minutes.html trackbot
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-prov-minutes.html trackbot ←
16:19:01 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, bye ←
16:19:01 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see no action items ←
16:19:02 <Zakim> ... +1.509.375.aaee, +1.216.368.aaff, +1.217.417.aagg
Zakim IRC Bot: ... +1.509.375.aaee, +1.216.368.aaff, +1.217.417.aagg ←
Formatted by CommonScribe
This revision (#5) generated 2011-07-05 18:35:49 UTC by 'lmoreau', comments: None