Provenance Working Group Teleconference

Minutes of 30 June 2011

Agenda
http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.06.30
Seen
Daniel Garijo, David Corsar, Deborah McGuinness, Eric Stephan, Graham Klyne, Helena Deus, James Myers, James Cheney, Jun Zhao, Jörn Hees, Luc Moreau, Paolo Missier, Paul Groth, Paulo Pinheiro da Silva, Ralph Hodgson, Sam Coppens, Satya Sahoo, Simon Miles, Simon Dobson, Stephan Zednik, Stephen Cresswell, Stian Soiland-Reyes, Thomas Francart, Timothy Lebo, Yogesh Simmhan
Regrets
Daniel Garijo, Simon Miles, Yogesh Simmhan, James Cheney, Simon Dobson, Graham Klyne, Deborah McGuinness, Paulo Pinheiro da Silva, Timothy Lebo
Chair
Luc Moreau
Scribe
Paolo Missier, Satya Sahoo
IRC Log
Original and Editable Wiki Version
Resolutions
  1. PIL is an assertion language, which allows asserters to make assertions about stuffs and activities in the real world (as they view it) and how they influence each other. link
  2. Derivation expresses that some stuff is transformed from, created from, or affected by other stuff. A thing B is derived from a thing A if the values of some invariant properties of B are at least partially determined by the values of some invariant properties of A. link
  3. we use the set of constraints as a starting point for building an understanding of PIL link
Topics
  1. Admin

    The previous minutes were accepted; actions-12 is now closed.

  2. F2F Plan

    Sessions for the F2F meeting have been identified. Detailed agenda will be posted the day before the meeting.

  3. Connection TF Plan to F2F1

    Eric reviewed progress. A good catalog of connections is being built up. It will be summarized at F2F1, and it is proposed to categorize contributions.

  4. Implementation and Test Cases TF Plan to F2F1

    Helena indicated that over 30 entries had been submitted. A summary will be presented at F2F1.

  5. Access and Query TF Plan to F2F1

    Simon circulated a summary of activities ahead of the meeting. A series of proposals, and comments on them, have been curated, and will be presented at the F2F meeting.

  6. Model TF Plan to F2F1

    Paolo reviewed activities. A consolidated document, containing definitions for core concepts, and topics for discussion, has been produced. When the document is frozen, a notification will be sent to the mailing list. It was agreed that we shouldn't attempt to incorporate in this document definitions for other concepts that have not been discussed yet.

  7. Model Task Force

    In the spirit of building up our understanding of concepts, agreement was reached on a few more properties. PIL is seen as an assertion language; derivation was defined; a set of event ordering constraints was adopted as a starting point to understand PIL. Consensus was not reached on a definition of Agent since the group is still undecided as to whether the concept should be defined independently of process execution or not.

14:42:52 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-prov-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-prov-irc

14:42:54 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world

14:42:56 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be

14:42:56 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot

14:42:57 <trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference
14:42:57 <trackbot> Date: 30 June 2011
14:43:02 <Luc> Zakim, this will be PROV

Luc Moreau: Zakim, this will be PROV

14:43:02 <Zakim> ok, Luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 17 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 17 minutes

14:43:15 <Luc> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.06.30
14:43:24 <Luc> Chair: Luc Moreau
14:43:29 <Luc> Scribe: Paolo Missier

(Scribe set to Paolo Missier)

14:43:53 <Luc> rrsagent, make logs public

Luc Moreau: rrsagent, make logs public

14:43:55 <Luc> Regrets: Daniel Garijo, Simon Miles, Yogesh Simmhan, James Cheney, Simon Dobson, Graham Klyne, Deborah McGuinness, Paulo Pinheiro da Silva, Timothy Lebo
14:44:15 <Luc> TOPIC: Admin

1. Admin

Summary: The previous minutes were accepted; actions-12 is now closed.

<luc> Summary:The previous minutes were accepted; actions-12 is now closed.
14:55:27 <Luc> zakim, who is here?

(No events recorded for 11 minutes)

Luc Moreau: zakim, who is here?

14:55:27 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has not yet started, Luc

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(PROV)11:00AM has not yet started, Luc

14:55:27 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Luc, stain, sandro, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see RRSAgent, Luc, stain, sandro, trackbot

14:56:39 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started

14:56:46 <Zakim> +??P4

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P4

14:56:48 <Zakim> -??P4

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P4

14:56:50 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(PROV)11:00AM has ended

14:56:50 <Zakim> Attendees were

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were

14:57:16 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started

14:57:23 <Zakim> +??P4

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P4

14:57:28 <stain> hmmm

Stian Soiland-Reyes: hmmm

14:57:33 <stain> I'm the first participant??

Stian Soiland-Reyes: I'm the first participant??

14:57:37 <Zakim> +Luc

Zakim IRC Bot: +Luc

14:57:40 <Luc> hi stain

Luc Moreau: hi stain

14:57:50 <stain> zakim, +??P4 is me

Stian Soiland-Reyes: zakim, +??P4 is me

14:57:50 <Zakim> sorry, stain, I do not recognize a party named '+??P4'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, stain, I do not recognize a party named '+??P4'

14:58:04 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[Microsoft]

14:58:08 <Luc> trackbot, start telcon

Luc Moreau: trackbot, start telcon

14:58:10 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world

14:58:11 <stain> zakim, +??P4 is me

Stian Soiland-Reyes: zakim, +??P4 is me

14:58:11 <Zakim> sorry, stain, I do not recognize a party named '+??P4'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, stain, I do not recognize a party named '+??P4'

14:58:12 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be

14:58:12 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot

14:58:13 <trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference
14:58:13 <trackbot> Date: 30 June 2011
14:58:24 <pgroth> Zakim, who is on the call?

Paul Groth: Zakim, who is on the call?

14:58:24 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P4, Luc, [Microsoft]

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see ??P4, Luc, [Microsoft]

14:58:38 <stain> Zakim: ??P4 is me
14:58:45 <pgroth> Zakim, who is on the call?

Paul Groth: Zakim, who is on the call?

14:58:45 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P4, Luc, [Microsoft]

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see ??P4, Luc, [Microsoft]

14:59:15 <pgroth> Zakim, [Microsoft] is me

Paul Groth: Zakim, [Microsoft] is me

14:59:16 <Zakim> +pgroth; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +pgroth; got it

14:59:34 <stain> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2011-23-06 is not there

Stian Soiland-Reyes: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2011-23-06 is not there

14:59:41 <Zakim> +??P18

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P18

14:59:52 <Luc> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.06.30

Luc Moreau: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.06.30

15:00:16 <Luc> zakim, who is here?

Luc Moreau: zakim, who is here?

15:00:16 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P4, Luc, pgroth, ??P18

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see ??P4, Luc, pgroth, ??P18

15:00:20 <Zakim> On IRC I see zednik, Lena, SamCoppens, jorn, paolo, pgroth, jun, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, stain, sandro, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see zednik, Lena, SamCoppens, jorn, paolo, pgroth, jun, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, stain, sandro, trackbot

15:00:28 <Zakim> + +1.646.389.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.646.389.aaaa

15:00:30 <Zakim> +??P26

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P26

15:00:36 <Zakim> + +1.832.386.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.832.386.aabb

15:00:38 <paolo> zakim, ??P26 is me

zakim, ??P26 is me

15:00:39 <stain> Zakim, ??P4 is me

Stian Soiland-Reyes: Zakim, ??P4 is me

15:00:40 <Zakim> +paolo; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +paolo; got it

15:00:44 <Zakim> +stain; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +stain; got it

15:01:00 <Zakim> +??P22

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P22

15:01:06 <Zakim> +??P33

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P33

15:01:15 <Zakim> +SamCoppens

Zakim IRC Bot: +SamCoppens

15:01:30 <jorn> zakim, ??p18 is me

Jörn Hees: zakim, ??p18 is me

15:01:30 <Zakim> +jorn; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +jorn; got it

15:02:20 <Zakim> - +1.646.389.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.646.389.aaaa

15:02:39 <Luc> PROPOSED: to accept the minutes of 23 Jun telecon

PROPOSED: to accept the minutes of 23 Jun telecon

15:02:45 <Luc>    http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2011-23-06

Luc Moreau: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2011-23-06

15:02:58 <stain> 404

Stian Soiland-Reyes: 404

15:03:02 <tfrancart> URL does not work

Thomas Francart: URL does not work

15:03:05 <paolo> +1

+1

15:03:09 <stain> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2011-06-23 is correct

Stian Soiland-Reyes: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2011-06-23 is correct

15:03:13 <Zakim> +[ISI]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[ISI]

15:03:14 <pgroth> \me it's really echoy or is that me

Paul Groth: \me it's really echoy or is that me

15:03:22 <jorn> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2011-06-23

Jörn Hees: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2011-06-23

15:03:37 <paolo> the secodn link is fine

the second link is fine

15:03:38 <Zakim> + +1.518.633.aacc

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.518.633.aacc

15:03:53 <jorn> +1

Jörn Hees: +1

15:03:57 <SamCoppens> +1

Sam Coppens: +1

15:03:57 <paolo> +1

+1

15:03:59 <tfrancart> +1

Thomas Francart: +1

15:04:00 <Lena> +!

Helena Deus: +!

15:04:02 <Lena> +1

Helena Deus: +1

15:04:04 <jorn> s/secodn/second/
15:04:07 <zednik> +1

Stephan Zednik: +1

15:04:11 <StephenCresswell> +1

Stephen Cresswell: +1

15:04:14 <stain> 0 - not had a chance to read it :)

Stian Soiland-Reyes: 0 - not had a chance to read it :)

15:04:32 <Zakim> +??P51

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P51

15:04:36 <Zakim> +??P24

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P24

15:04:44 <Luc>    http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/open

Luc Moreau: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/open

15:04:48 <jorn> zakim, please mute me

Jörn Hees: zakim, please mute me

15:04:48 <Zakim> jorn should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: jorn should now be muted

15:04:51 <Zakim> + +1.650.386.aadd - is perhaps ralphh

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.650.386.aadd - is perhaps ralphh

15:04:51 <paolo> luc: review open actions

Luc Moreau: review open actions

15:04:54 <jun> zakim, ??P24 is me

Jun Zhao: zakim, ??P24 is me

15:04:55 <Zakim> +jun; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +jun; got it

15:05:20 <paolo> Simon will report in the context of the PQA TF

Simon will report in the context of the PQA TF

15:05:31 <Zakim> + +1.509.375.aaee

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.509.375.aaee

15:05:47 <Luc> TOPIC: F2F Plan

2. F2F Plan

Summary: Sessions for the F2F meeting have been identified. Detailed agenda will be posted the day before the meeting.

<luc>Summary: Sessions for the F2F meeting have been identified.  Detailed agenda will be posted the day before the meeting.
15:05:51 <pgroth> please mute

Paul Groth: please mute

15:05:55 <Luc> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:F2F1Timetable

Luc Moreau: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:F2F1Timetable

15:05:58 <jorn> zakim, who is talking?

Jörn Hees: zakim, who is talking?

15:06:09 <Zakim> jorn, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: stain (54%), Luc (63%), SamCoppens (9%), ??P51 (57%)

Zakim IRC Bot: jorn, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: stain (54%), Luc (63%), SamCoppens (9%), ??P51 (57%)

15:06:24 <paolo> Luc: outline for the meeting has been drafted: 8 sessions, TF allocated to the sessions

Luc Moreau: outline for the meeting has been drafted: 8 sessions, TF allocated to the sessions

15:06:51 <paolo> Luc: 4 sessions to model, 2 to PAQ Tf, 1 to connection and implementation

Luc Moreau: 4 sessions to model, 2 to PAQ Tf, 1 to connection and implementation

15:07:11 <paolo> content of sessions unspecified, to provide max flexibility

content of sessions unspecified, to provide max flexibility

15:07:19 <Zakim> + +1.216.368.aaff

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.216.368.aaff

15:07:23 <paolo> agenda to be posted 1 day prior to meeting

agenda to be posted 1 day prior to meeting

15:07:54 <paolo> q+

q+

15:07:55 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:08:09 <Luc> TOPIC: Connection TF Plan to F2F1

3. Connection TF Plan to F2F1

Summary: Eric reviewed progress. A good catalog of connections is being built up. It will be summarized at F2F1, and it is proposed to categorize contributions.

<luc>Summary: Eric reviewed progress. A good catalog of connections is being built up. It will be summarized at F2F1, and it is proposed to categorize contributions.
15:08:14 <paolo> q-

q-

15:08:32 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:09:25 <Luc> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/F2F1_Connection_Proposal

Luc Moreau: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/F2F1_Connection_Proposal

15:09:43 <paolo> Eric: happy with current proposals

Eric Stephan: happy with current proposals

15:09:50 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:09:54 <paolo> more contributions welcome

more contributions welcome

15:10:16 <paolo> Yolanda suggests to categorize contributions

Yolanda suggests to categorize contributions

15:10:23 <paolo> Eric: will be at meeting

Eric Stephan: will be at meeting

15:10:28 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:10:39 <Luc> TOPIC: Implementation and Test Cases TF Plan to F2F1

4. Implementation and Test Cases TF Plan to F2F1

Summary: Helena indicated that over 30 entries had been submitted. A summary will be presented at F2F1.

<luc>Summary: Helena indicated that over 30 entries had been submitted. A summary will be presented at F2F1.
15:10:55 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:11:14 <paolo> Helena: 32 entries, plan is to consolidate

Helena Deus: 32 entries, plan is to consolidate

15:11:23 <paolo> and compile them in terms of importance

and compile them in terms of importance

15:11:29 <Zakim> + +1.217.417.aagg

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.217.417.aagg

15:11:36 <paolo> q+

q+

15:11:42 <Luc> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/F2F1_Unit_Test_Proposal

Luc Moreau: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/F2F1_Unit_Test_Proposal

15:11:54 <Luc> ack paolo

Luc Moreau: ack paolo

15:11:57 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:13:00 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:13:24 <pgroth> +q

Paul Groth: +q

15:13:27 <paolo> Helena: institutions vary geographically and by sector. Stats will be provided

Helena Deus: institutions vary geographically and by sector. Stats will be provided

15:13:34 <Luc> ack pgroth

Luc Moreau: ack pgroth

15:13:59 <paolo> pgroth: wiki should record where the survey was sent -- which lists.

Paul Groth: wiki should record where the survey was sent -- which lists.

15:14:16 <tfrancart> I distributed it to 3 of our partners/clients

Thomas Francart: I distributed it to 3 of our partners/clients

15:14:39 <Zakim> -jorn

Zakim IRC Bot: -jorn

15:14:40 <pgroth> it's already done

Paul Groth: it's already done

15:14:51 <paolo> Luc: can we post the form itself on the wiki, so we don't depend on googledocs

Luc Moreau: can we post the form itself on the wiki, so we don't depend on googledocs

15:14:58 <Lena> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Implementation_and_Test_Cases_Task_Force

Helena Deus: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Implementation_and_Test_Cases_Task_Force

15:15:01 <Zakim> +??P17

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P17

15:15:39 <stain> I see it

Stian Soiland-Reyes: I see it

15:15:40 <jorn> zakim, who is here?

Jörn Hees: zakim, who is here?

15:15:40 <Zakim> On the phone I see stain, Luc, pgroth, paolo, +1.832.386.aabb, ??P22, ??P33, SamCoppens, [ISI], +1.518.633.aacc, ??P51, jun, ralphh, +1.509.375.aaee, +1.216.368.aaff,

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see stain, Luc, pgroth, paolo, +1.832.386.aabb, ??P22, ??P33, SamCoppens, [ISI], +1.518.633.aacc, ??P51, jun, ralphh, +1.509.375.aaee, +1.216.368.aaff,

15:15:43 <Zakim> ... +1.217.417.aagg, ??P17

Zakim IRC Bot: ... +1.217.417.aagg, ??P17

15:15:45 <Zakim> On IRC I see satya, ralphh, dcorsar, YolandaGil, StephenCresswell, tfrancart, zednik, Lena, SamCoppens, jorn, paolo, pgroth, jun, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, stain, sandro, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see satya, ralphh, dcorsar, YolandaGil, StephanCresswell, tfrancart, zednik, Lena, SamCoppens, jorn, paolo, pgroth, jun, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, stain, sandro, trackbot

15:16:08 <Lena> Questionnaire is available at http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Implementation_and_Test_Cases_Task_Force#W3C_Implementation_Stakeholder_Questionnaire

Helena Deus: Questionnaire is available at http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Implementation_and_Test_Cases_Task_Force#W3C_Implementation_Stakeholder_Questionnaire

15:16:09 <paolo> Helena, Stephen will attend F2F remotely

Helena, Stephan will attend F2F remotely

15:16:16 <stain> q+

Stian Soiland-Reyes: q+

15:17:02 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:17:19 <Luc> TOPIC: Access and Query TF Plan to F2F1

5. Access and Query TF Plan to F2F1

Summary: Simon circulated a summary of activities ahead of the meeting. A series of proposals, and comments on them, have been curated, and will be presented at the F2F meeting.

<Luc> Summary: Simon circulated a summary of activities ahead of the meeting.   A series of proposals, and comments on them, have been curated, and will be presented at the F2F meeting.
15:17:20 <pgroth> stain?

Paul Groth: stain?

15:17:21 <stain> q-

Stian Soiland-Reyes: q-

15:17:26 <Luc> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/F2F1_Access_and_Query_Proposal

Luc Moreau: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/F2F1_Access_and_Query_Proposal

15:17:27 <paolo> s/Stephen/Stephan/g
15:17:30 <paolo> (sorry about that)

(sorry about that)

15:17:31 <Luc> Simon's report: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011Jun/0477.html

Luc Moreau: Simon's report: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011Jun/0477.html

15:17:40 <stain> I just wanted to say something about if we will have WebEx or something from the meeting to get a videolink

Stian Soiland-Reyes: I just wanted to say something about if we will have WebEx or something from the meeting to get a videolink

15:18:02 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:18:14 <paolo> Simon not in the call, report posted (see link)

Simon not in the call, report posted (see link)

15:18:18 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:18:27 <paolo> no comments from group

no comments from group

15:18:37 <paolo> Simon, Yogesh will both be at F2F

Simon, Yogesh will both be at F2F

15:18:39 <Luc> TOPIC: Model TF Plan to F2F1

6. Model TF Plan to F2F1

Summary: Paolo reviewed activities. A consolidated document, containing definitions for core concepts, and topics for discussion, has been produced. When the document is frozen, a notification will be sent to the mailing list. It was agreed that we shouldn't attempt to incorporate in this document definitions for other concepts that have not been discussed yet.

<Luc>Summary: Paolo reviewed activities. A consolidated document, containing  definitions for  core concepts, and topics for discussion, has been produced. When the document is frozen, a notification will be sent to the mailing list. It was agreed that we shouldn't attempt to incorporate in this document definitions for other concepts that have not been discussed yet.
15:19:23 <jun> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ConsolidatedConcepts

Jun Zhao: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ConsolidatedConcepts

15:19:31 <jun> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/F2F1_Model_Proposal

Jun Zhao: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/F2F1_Model_Proposal

15:20:02 <Luc> Scribe: Satya Sahoo

(Scribe set to Satya Sahoo)

15:20:37 <satya> Paolo: Consolidated the discussion about provenance concepts into one page (link posted by Jun)

Paolo Missier: Consolidated the discussion about provenance concepts into one page (link posted by Jun)

15:21:09 <satya> Paolo: All members of the TF contributed to the consolidation process

Paolo Missier: All members of the TF contributed to the consolidation process

15:22:24 <satya> Paolo: the TF did not add to the definition of a concept. Each provenance concept has three sections: a consolidated definition, examples from the Data Journalism example, and outstanding issues related to the provenance concept

Paolo Missier: the TF did not add to the definition of a concept. Each provenance concept has three sections: a consolidated definition, examples from the Data Journalism example, and outstanding issues related to the provenance concept

15:22:56 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:23:02 <satya> Paolo: Goal of this work is to present an unified view of the provenance concepts for further discussions during the F2F

Paolo Missier: Goal of this work is to present an unified view of the provenance concepts for further discussions during the F2F

15:23:15 <pgroth> +q

Paul Groth: +q

15:23:20 <ralphh> +q

Ralph Hodgson: +q

15:23:21 <Luc> ack pgroth

Luc Moreau: ack pgroth

15:23:50 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:24:01 <satya> pgroth: When will TF decide to freeze the wiki page with consolidated provenance concepts

Paul Groth: When will TF decide to freeze the wiki page with consolidated provenance concepts

15:24:44 <satya> Paolo: The wiki page is relatively stable, currently minor changes are being made

Paolo Missier: The wiki page is relatively stable, currently minor changes are being made

15:24:44 <Luc> ack ralphh

Luc Moreau: ack ralphh

15:25:06 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:25:25 <ralphh> http://www.linkedmodel.org/doc/voag/1.0/

Ralph Hodgson: http://www.linkedmodel.org/doc/voag/1.0/

15:25:28 <pgroth> you just do it

Paul Groth: you just do it

15:25:30 <pgroth> :-)

Paul Groth: :-)

15:25:54 <paolo> ralphh: volunteers to join the TF

Ralph Hodgson: volunteers to join the TF [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ]

15:25:56 <paolo> model TF

Paolo Missier: model TF

15:26:00 <stain> just edit http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvenanceTaskForces

Stian Soiland-Reyes: just edit http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvenanceTaskForces

15:26:10 <jun> respond to the mailing list:)

Jun Zhao: respond to the mailing list:)

15:26:14 <satya> Ralph: How to join to the Model TF, have done previous work in modeling provenance issues

Ralph Hodgson: How to join to the Model TF, have done previous work in modeling provenance issues

15:26:22 <pgroth> q+

Paul Groth: q+

15:27:31 <Luc>  Scribe: Paolo Missier

Luc Moreau: Scribe: Paolo Missier

15:27:42 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:27:58 <Luc> ack pgroth

Luc Moreau: ack pgroth

15:28:08 <paolo> Ralph: will not be at F2F, but will contribute his past work to the TF

Ralph Hodgson: will not be at F2F, but will contribute his past work to the TF [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ]

15:28:33 <paolo> Luc: suggests Ralph to add his references to the Connection TF

Luc Moreau: suggests Ralph to add his references to the Connection TF [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ]

15:29:07 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:29:10 <paolo> Luc: 17 concepts were listed in the charter, 8 of those have been addressed in http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ConsolidatedConcepts

Luc Moreau: 17 concepts were listed in the charter, 8 of those have been addressed in http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ConsolidatedConcepts [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ]

15:29:10 <satya> q+

q+

15:29:12 <stain> q+

Stian Soiland-Reyes: q+

15:29:17 <paolo> what should be done about the others?

Paolo Missier: what should be done about the others?

15:29:19 <Luc> ack satya

Luc Moreau: ack satya

15:29:33 <paolo> Satya: pick up new concepts on only after the F2F

Satya Sahoo: pick up new concepts on only after the F2F [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ]

15:29:37 <stain> q-  (ack satya)

Stian Soiland-Reyes: q- (ack satya)

15:29:43 <Luc> ack stain

Luc Moreau: ack stain

15:29:49 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:30:01 <paolo> Stian: agrees with Satya. We've got enough for the F2F

Stian Soiland-Reyes: agrees with Satya. We've got enough for the F2F [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ]

15:30:04 <paolo> q+

Paolo Missier: q+

15:30:10 <Luc> ack paolo

Luc Moreau: ack paolo

15:30:25 <Zakim> -??P17

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P17

15:30:36 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:30:42 <satya> Paolo: Discussion in F2F will bring out new concepts that should be taken up next by Wg

Paolo Missier: Discussion in F2F will bring out new concepts that should be taken up next by Wg

15:30:44 <Zakim> +??P17

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P17

15:30:52 <jorn> zakim, ??p17 is me

Jörn Hees: zakim, ??p17 is me

15:30:52 <Zakim> +jorn; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +jorn; got it

15:31:02 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:31:11 <paolo> Luc: no further defs will be added to the current list before the F2F

Luc Moreau: no further defs will be added to the current list before the F2F [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ]

15:31:28 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:31:34 <paolo> Luc: acknowledges the hard work of the Model TF! :-)

Luc Moreau: acknowledges the hard work of the Model TF! :-) [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ]

15:31:34 <Luc> TOPIC: Model Task Force

7. Model Task Force

Summary: In the spirit of building up our understanding of concepts, agreement was reached on a few more properties. PIL is seen as an assertion language; derivation was defined; a set of event ordering constraints was adopted as a starting point to understand PIL. Consensus was not reached on a definition of Agent since the group is still undecided as to whether the concept should be defined independently of process execution or not.

<luc>Summary: In the spirit of building up our understanding of concepts, agreement was reached on a few more properties.  PIL is seen as an assertion language; derivation was defined; a set of event ordering constraints was adopted as a starting point to understand PIL.  Consensus was not reached on a definition of Agent since the group is still undecided as to whether the concept should be defined independently of process execution or not.
15:32:19 <paolo> Luc: some terms still require consensus, it would help to make progress today

Luc Moreau: some terms still require consensus, it would help to make progress today [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ]

15:32:29 <Luc>  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011Jun/0460.html

Luc Moreau: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011Jun/0460.html

15:33:02 <paolo> Luc: the idea is that PIL is an /assertion language/

Luc Moreau: the idea is that PIL is an /assertion language/ [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ]

15:33:22 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:33:25 <paolo> idea socialized on the list but little feedback so far

Paolo Missier: idea socialized on the list but little feedback so far

15:33:32 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:34:05 <paolo> Jim Myers: that's fine, but what does that do for us?

Paolo Missier: Jim Myers: that's fine, but what does that do for us?

15:34:51 <paolo> Luc: recurrent theme is that there are "asserters" in our definitions. So we may as well make it explicit upfront

Luc Moreau: recurrent theme is that there are "asserters" in our definitions. So we may as well make it explicit upfront [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ]

15:35:24 <paolo> Jim: the idea of multiple witnesses that we agree on is aligned with this, so as a convenience that's fine

James Myers: the idea of multiple witnesses that we agree on is aligned with this, so as a convenience that's fine [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ]

15:35:27 <satya> q+

q+

15:35:30 <tfrancart> q+

Thomas Francart: q+

15:35:34 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:35:37 <Luc> ack satya

Luc Moreau: ack satya

15:36:13 <paolo> Satya: to follow up: if we see PIL in the RDF context, it follows naturally

Satya Sahoo: to follow up: if we see PIL in the RDF context, it follows naturally [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ]

15:36:23 <pgroth> stating the obvious isn't a bad thing ;-)

Paul Groth: stating the obvious isn't a bad thing ;-)

15:36:30 <paolo> Luc: yes, but for a different serialization this may be less obvious

Luc Moreau: yes, but for a different serialization this may be less obvious [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ]

15:36:34 <paolo> q+

Paolo Missier: q+

15:36:34 <satya> ok

ok

15:37:01 <paolo> Thomas: shouldn't we also define rules (inference) that come with assertions?

Thomas Francart: shouldn't we also define rules (inference) that come with assertions? [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ]

15:37:39 <paolo> Luc: this idea has been circulated, we currently are agnostic regarding the types of assertions -- rules may well be included

Luc Moreau: this idea has been circulated, we currently are agnostic regarding the types of assertions -- rules may well be included [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ]

15:37:43 <satya> @Thomas: Inference will require us to define the formal semantics of the PIL first

@Thomas: Inference will require us to define the formal semantics of the PIL first

15:37:49 <Luc> ack tfrancart

Luc Moreau: ack tfrancart

15:38:32 <satya> q+

q+

15:38:33 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:39:25 <Luc> ack paolo

Luc Moreau: ack paolo

15:39:52 <Luc> ack satya

Luc Moreau: ack satya

15:40:22 <paolo> Satya: inference is a mechanism to produce new assertions, note that the Rule exchange language is standard with W3C

Satya Sahoo: inference is a mechanism to produce new assertions, note that the Rule exchange language is standard with W3C [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ]

15:40:41 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:40:42 <ralphh> +q

Ralph Hodgson: +q

15:40:44 <paolo> Satya: what is the rule language? we need a formal semantics for PIL before we can move on to rules

Satya Sahoo: what is the rule language? we need a formal semantics for PIL before we can move on to rules [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ]

15:41:10 <Zakim> - +1.217.417.aagg

Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.217.417.aagg

15:41:18 <paolo> Ralph: can we have a reference to PIL? how about refutation, conjecture in addition to asertion

Ralph Hodgson: can we have a reference to PIL? how about refutation, conjecture in addition to assertion [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ]

15:41:27 <paolo> s/asertion/assertion
15:41:29 <satya> W3C Rule Interchange Format recommendation: http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/RIF_Working_Group

W3C Rule Interchange Format recommendation: http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/RIF_Working_Group

15:41:40 <Luc> ack ralphh

Luc Moreau: ack ralphh

15:41:44 <paolo> Luc: PIL is what we are defining. it's a codename

Luc Moreau: PIL is what we are defining. it's a codename [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ]

15:42:04 <paolo> Luc: conjecture, refutation not part of charter but may well be discussed

Luc Moreau: conjecture, refutation not part of charter but may well be discussed [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ]

15:42:05 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:42:07 <jorn> q+

Jörn Hees: q+

15:42:14 <Luc> PROPOSED: PIL is an assertion language, which allows asserters to make assertions about stuffs and activities in the real world (as they view it) and how they influence each other.

PROPOSED: PIL is an assertion language, which allows asserters to make assertions about stuffs and activities in the real world (as they view it) and how they influence each other.

15:42:28 <jorn> q-

Jörn Hees: q-

15:42:29 <satya> +1

+1

15:42:30 <stain> +1

Stian Soiland-Reyes: +1

15:42:32 <tfrancart> +1

Thomas Francart: +1

15:42:32 <zednik> +1

Stephan Zednik: +1

15:42:35 <paolo> +1

Paolo Missier: +1

15:42:37 <dcorsar> +1

David Corsar: +1

15:42:42 <SamCoppens> +1

Sam Coppens: +1

15:42:43 <ralphh> +1

Ralph Hodgson: +1

15:42:44 <Lena> +1

Helena Deus: +1

15:43:03 <Luc> ACCEPTED: PIL is an assertion language, which allows asserters to make assertions about stuffs and activities in the real world (as they view it) and how they influence each other.

RESOLVED: PIL is an assertion language, which allows asserters to make assertions about stuffs and activities in the real world (as they view it) and how they influence each other.

15:43:24 <Luc> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011Jun/0459.html

Luc Moreau: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011Jun/0459.html

15:43:38 <paolo> Luc: on the concept of Derivation

Luc Moreau: on the concept of Derivation [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ]

15:44:00 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:44:05 <paolo> Luc: any major objection to the proposal? (see link)

Luc Moreau: any major objection to the proposal? (see link) [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ]

15:44:13 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:44:29 <Luc> PROPOSED: Derivation represents how stuff is transformed from, created from, or affected by other stuff. A thing B is derived from a thing A if the values of some invariant properties of B are at least partially determined by the values of some invariant properties of A.

PROPOSED: Derivation represents how stuff is transformed from, created from, or affected by other stuff. A thing B is derived from a thing A if the values of some invariant properties of B are at least partially determined by the values of some invariant properties of A.

15:44:39 <stain> +1

Stian Soiland-Reyes: +1

15:44:44 <jun> +1

Jun Zhao: +1

15:44:46 <tfrancart> 0

Thomas Francart: 0

15:44:51 <satya> +1

+1

15:44:53 <dcorsar> +1

David Corsar: +1

15:44:57 <SamCoppens> +1

Sam Coppens: +1

15:45:01 <paolo> q+

Paolo Missier: q+

15:45:02 <zednik> +q

Stephan Zednik: +q

15:45:09 <ralphh> +1

Ralph Hodgson: +1

15:45:11 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:46:11 <Zakim> -jorn

Zakim IRC Bot: -jorn

15:46:12 <ralphh> q+

Ralph Hodgson: q+

15:46:26 <Zakim> +??P17

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P17

15:46:31 <Luc> ack paolo

Luc Moreau: ack paolo

15:47:05 <paolo> zednik: just looked at proposal. is Derivation is a relation or a thing?

Stephan Zednik: just looked at proposal. is Derivation is a relation or a thing? [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ]

15:47:14 <satya> @Stephan - I agree, derivation is a property

@Stephan - I agree, derivation is a property

15:47:22 <paolo> it  ought to be a relation

Paolo Missier: it ought to be a relation

15:48:01 <stain> it sounds like a relation to me.. but which could also have deeper details (such as a link to a process execution)

Stian Soiland-Reyes: it sounds like a relation to me.. but which could also have deeper details (such as a link to a process execution)

15:48:06 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:48:20 <paolo> Luc: up for discussion at F2F. Others raised the issue

Luc Moreau: up for discussion at F2F. Others raised the issue [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ]

15:48:36 <pgroth> i guess it's just english

Paul Groth: i guess it's just english

15:48:36 <paolo> zednik: are we also saying /how/ something was derived?

Stephan Zednik: are we also saying /how/ something was derived? [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ]

15:48:48 <satya> @Stephan: The how part is not covered in derivation (my POV)

@Stephan: The how part is not covered in derivation (my POV)

15:49:16 <pgroth> the transformation of stuff from?

Paul Groth: the transformation of stuff from?

15:49:43 <Luc> PROPOSED: Derivation expresses that some stuff is transformed from, created from, or affected by other stuff. A thing B is derived from a thing A if the values of some invariant properties of B are at least partially determined by the values of some invariant properties of A.

PROPOSED: Derivation expresses that some stuff is transformed from, created from, or affected by other stuff. A thing B is derived from a thing A if the values of some invariant properties of B are at least partially determined by the values of some invariant properties of A.

15:49:53 <Luc> ack zednik

Luc Moreau: ack zednik

15:50:22 <paolo> Ralph: derivation is a transformation, but a reified relationship

Ralph Hodgson: derivation is a transformation, but a reified relationship [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ]

15:50:36 <jorn> one could always reificate more information onto the derivation statement, couldn't one?

Jörn Hees: one could always reificate more information onto the derivation statement, couldn't one?

15:50:58 <paolo> Ralph: affected by: opens up derivation in a bigger notion, not sure about the term "affect"

Ralph Hodgson: affected by: opens up derivation in a bigger notion, not sure about the term "affect" [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ]

15:51:46 <paolo> Luc: first sentence about high level idea of what Derivation is, clearly it's not formal

Luc Moreau: first sentence about high level idea of what Derivation is, clearly it's not formal [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ]

15:52:22 <Luc> ack

Luc Moreau: ack

15:52:23 <stain> What if we add "In PIL, a thing B is..."

Stian Soiland-Reyes: What if we add "In PIL, a thing B is..."

15:52:23 <paolo> Luc: second part triesd to explain what Derviation means wrt the constructs of the language. Says how Derivation can influence some properties

Luc Moreau: second part triesd to explain what Derviation means wrt the constructs of the language. Says how Derivation can influence some properties [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ]

15:52:24 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:52:29 <Luc> ack ralphh

Luc Moreau: ack ralphh

15:52:48 <stain> +1

Stian Soiland-Reyes: +1

15:52:56 <jun> +1

Jun Zhao: +1

15:53:02 <jorn> +1

Jörn Hees: +1

15:53:05 <paolo> +1

Paolo Missier: +1

15:53:15 <SamCoppens> +1

Sam Coppens: +1

15:53:34 <zednik> +0 (undecided, I want to see in a use case example)

Stephan Zednik: +0 (undecided, I want to see in a use case example)

15:53:39 <ralphh> +1

Ralph Hodgson: +1

15:53:46 <Lena> 0

Helena Deus: 0

15:53:55 <tfrancart> 0 : not sure why it refers only to "invariant properties" ?

Thomas Francart: 0 : not sure why it refers only to "invariant properties" ?

15:53:56 <paolo> pgroth: reminder; 0 abstain , -1 for reject, +1 for accept

Paul Groth: reminder; 0 abstain , -1 for reject, +1 for accept [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ]

15:53:57 <Luc> ACCEPTED: Derivation expresses that some stuff is transformed from, created from, or affected by other stuff. A thing B is derived from a thing A if the values of some invariant properties of B are at least partially determined by the values of some invariant properties of A.

RESOLVED: Derivation expresses that some stuff is transformed from, created from, or affected by other stuff. A thing B is derived from a thing A if the values of some invariant properties of B are at least partially determined by the values of some invariant properties of A.

15:54:06 <paolo> q+

Paolo Missier: q+

15:54:18 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:55:48 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:55:52 <Luc> ack paolo

Luc Moreau: ack paolo

15:56:41 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:57:08 <Luc> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011Jun/0439.html

Luc Moreau: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011Jun/0439.html

15:57:10 <paolo> Luc: need to have some education activity to make sure all the basic concepts are clear, including  thing, invariant properties, etc.

Luc Moreau: need to have some education activity to make sure all the basic concepts are clear, including thing, invariant properties, etc. [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ]

15:57:37 <paolo> [sorry I missed Luc's sentences]

Paolo Missier: [sorry I missed Luc's sentences]

15:57:54 <Luc> PROPOSED: An agent is an active thing. It may be linked to a process  execution, for example, by controlling it. Examples of agent include person, organization, and software agent.

PROPOSED: An agent is an active thing. It may be linked to a process execution, for example, by controlling it. Examples of agent include person, organization, and software agent.

15:58:08 <ralphh> +q

Ralph Hodgson: +q

15:58:11 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:58:43 <paolo> q+

Paolo Missier: q+

15:58:58 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:59:02 <Luc> ack ralphh

Luc Moreau: ack ralphh

15:59:04 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:59:08 <pgroth> In pil: "things" represent real-world stuffs and have properties modeling aspects of stuff states

Paul Groth: In pil: "things" represent real-world stuffs and have properties modeling aspects of stuff states

15:59:37 <satya> Ralph: Many ontologies use the term "party" instead of agent

Ralph Hodgson: Many ontologies use the term "party" instead of agent

15:59:46 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:59:50 <Luc> ack paolo

Luc Moreau: ack paolo

15:59:55 <ralphh> instead of "Thing" not "Agent"

Ralph Hodgson: instead of "Thing" not "Agent"

15:59:59 <paolo> Ralph: Can we replace "thing" with "party" in the def?

Ralph Hodgson: Can we replace "thing" with "party" in the def? [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ]

15:59:59 <Luc> PROPOSED: An agent is an active thing. It may be linked to a process  execution, for example, by controlling it. Examples of agent include person, organization, and software agent.

PROPOSED: An agent is an active thing. It may be linked to a process execution, for example, by controlling it. Examples of agent include person, organization, and software agent.

16:00:33 <paolo> Luc: "thing" is used in the technical sense of PIL

Luc Moreau: "thing" is used in the technical sense of PIL [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ]

16:00:45 <paolo> Satya: is linking an Agent to a process optional?

Satya Sahoo: is linking an Agent to a process optional? [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ]

16:00:58 <zednik> q+

Stephan Zednik: q+

16:00:58 <paolo> Luc: def. is agnostic about it

Luc Moreau: def. is agnostic about it [ Scribe Assist by Paolo Missier ]

16:01:37 <Zakim> -paolo

Zakim IRC Bot: -paolo

16:01:45 <Zakim> -[ISI]

Zakim IRC Bot: -[ISI]

16:01:49 <paolo> my skype crashed out

Paolo Missier: my skype crashed out

16:01:54 <Zakim> -??P17

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P17

16:01:58 <paolo> sorry

Paolo Missier: sorry

16:01:59 <Luc> SCRIBE: Satya Sahoo
16:02:03 <Zakim> -SamCoppens

Zakim IRC Bot: -SamCoppens

16:02:16 <Zakim> +??P17

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P17

16:02:39 <satya> Paolo: Definition of Agent will be debated further

Paolo Missier: Definition of Agent will be debated further

16:02:49 <satya> Paolo/Luc

Paolo/Luc

16:03:32 <satya> Luc: Discussion on notion of Time in previous WG telcon

Luc Moreau: Discussion on notion of Time in previous WG telcon

16:03:46 <Luc> n PIL, there are different kinds of events: beginning of process execution, end of process execution, generation of thing, use of thing, which satisfy some ordering, according to relation "precede":

Luc Moreau: n PIL, there are different kinds of events: beginning of process execution, end of process execution, generation of thing, use of thing, which satisfy some ordering, according to relation "precede":

16:04:36 <satya> Luc: Four events identified with respect to the concept of Time

Luc Moreau: Four events identified with respect to the concept of Time

16:05:07 <Zakim> - +1.509.375.aaee

Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.509.375.aaee

16:05:29 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:06:02 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:06:04 <stain> q+

Stian Soiland-Reyes: q+

16:06:06 <satya> Luc: Is WG in agreement on the ordering constraints illustrated by the four events?

Luc Moreau: Is WG in agreement on the ordering constraints illustrated by the four events?

16:06:46 <pgroth> mailing list is good

Paul Groth: mailing list is good

16:06:47 <zednik> q-

Stephan Zednik: q-

16:06:52 <satya> zednik: Have comment on definition of Agent

Stephan Zednik: Have comment on definition of Agent

16:06:56 <Luc> ack stain

Luc Moreau: ack stain

16:07:40 <satya> Stian: w.r.t creation and use of a thing, are they associated with fixed point of time (?)

Stian Soiland-Reyes: w.r.t creation and use of a thing, are they associated with fixed point of time (?)

16:09:04 <satya> Luc: Stian's example of streaming video can be modeled as either as a series of Thing or a Thing

Luc Moreau: Stian's example of streaming video can be modeled as either as a series of Thing or a Thing

16:09:25 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:09:32 <satya> Stian: Agree with Luc's point

Stian Soiland-Reyes: Agree with Luc's point

16:09:37 <ralphh> q

Ralph Hodgson: q

16:09:38 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:09:44 <ralphh> q+

Ralph Hodgson: q+

16:09:49 <pgroth> ralph

Paul Groth: ralph

16:10:31 <Luc> PROPOSED: we use the set of constraints as a starting point for defining the semantics of PIL

PROPOSED: we use the set of constraints as a starting point for defining the semantics of PIL

16:10:53 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:10:55 <satya> q+

q+

16:11:28 <Luc> ack ralphh

Luc Moreau: ack ralphh

16:11:34 <satya> Ralph: Temporal logics has multiple ways of ordering, so there are more than four types of events

Ralph Hodgson: Temporal logics has multiple ways of ordering, so there are more than four types of events

16:11:49 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:12:13 <satya> Ralph: Will provide reference to multiple ordering of events

Ralph Hodgson: Will provide reference to multiple ordering of events

16:12:17 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:12:28 <Luc> ack satya

Luc Moreau: ack satya

16:12:50 <satya> Luc: This definition is similar to Lamport's paper

Luc Moreau: This definition is similar to Lamport's paper

16:14:25 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:14:26 <Lena> (apologies, I need to leave)

Helena Deus: (apologies, I need to leave)

16:14:42 <Luc> PROPOSED: we use the set of constraints as a starting point for defining the semantics of PIL

PROPOSED: we use the set of constraints as a starting point for defining the semantics of PIL

16:14:53 <Lena> +1

Helena Deus: +1

16:14:58 <ralphh> +1

Ralph Hodgson: +1

16:15:00 <stain> don't we need to agree on the constraints first?

Stian Soiland-Reyes: don't we need to agree on the constraints first?

16:15:06 <Zakim> - +1.832.386.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.832.386.aabb

16:15:29 <satya> pgroth: Suggest removing "semantics"

Paul Groth: Suggest removing "semantics"

16:15:34 <Luc> PROPOSED: we use the set of constraints as a starting point for building an understanding of PIL

PROPOSED: we use the set of constraints as a starting point for building an understanding of PIL

16:15:41 <satya> +1

+1

16:15:46 <jun> 0 (feels a bit premature to propose these constraints; but fine with using them as a starting point)

Jun Zhao: 0 (feels a bit premature to propose these constraints; but fine with using them as a starting point)

16:15:55 <stain> +1

Stian Soiland-Reyes: +1

16:15:56 <tfrancart> +1

Thomas Francart: +1

16:15:59 <zednik> +1

Stephan Zednik: +1

16:16:01 <dcorsar> +1

David Corsar: +1

16:16:16 <jorn> 0

Jörn Hees: 0

16:16:23 <stain> @jun as we're not voting on the constraints themselves they are not set in stone

Stian Soiland-Reyes: @jun as we're not voting on the constraints themselves they are not set in stone

16:16:47 <stain> zednik: who?

Stephan Zednik: who? [ Scribe Assist by Stian Soiland-Reyes ]

16:16:49 <jun> @stain, yes agreed

Jun Zhao: @stain, yes agreed

16:16:50 <Luc> ACCEPTED: we use the set of constraints as a starting point for building an understanding of PIL

RESOLVED: we use the set of constraints as a starting point for building an understanding of PIL

16:16:51 <stain> Zakim: who?
16:16:58 <stain> Zakim: who is on the call?
16:17:03 <ralphh> On the subject of temporal relationships, Allen defined 13 - I will post some references

Ralph Hodgson: On the subject of temporal relationships, Allen defined 13 - I will post some references

16:17:20 <stain> q+

Stian Soiland-Reyes: q+

16:17:25 <Zakim> -jun

Zakim IRC Bot: -jun

16:17:26 <Zakim> -??P17

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P17

16:17:40 <Zakim> -??P22

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P22

16:17:42 <Zakim> - +1.518.633.aacc

Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.518.633.aacc

16:17:44 <Zakim> -??P51

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P51

16:17:45 <ralphh> bye

Ralph Hodgson: bye

16:17:49 <Zakim> - +1.216.368.aaff

Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.216.368.aaff

16:17:53 <ralphh> quit

Ralph Hodgson: quit

16:17:55 <Zakim> -pgroth

Zakim IRC Bot: -pgroth

16:17:57 <Zakim> -Luc

Zakim IRC Bot: -Luc

16:17:57 <Zakim> -stain

Zakim IRC Bot: -stain

16:18:09 <Zakim> -ralphh

Zakim IRC Bot: -ralphh

16:18:26 <stain> I wanted to ask if there will be a videolink or webex from the f2f - or just telcon link

Stian Soiland-Reyes: I wanted to ask if there will be a videolink or webex from the f2f - or just telcon link

16:18:40 <Luc> rrsagent, set log public

Luc Moreau: rrsagent, set log public

16:18:45 <pgroth> telcon only

Paul Groth: telcon only

16:18:51 <Luc> rrsagent, draft minutes

Luc Moreau: rrsagent, draft minutes

16:18:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-prov-minutes.html Luc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-prov-minutes.html Luc

16:18:59 <Luc> trackbot, end telcon

Luc Moreau: trackbot, end telcon

16:18:59 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, list attendees

16:18:59 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Luc, pgroth, +1.646.389.aaaa, +1.832.386.aabb, paolo, stain, SamCoppens, jorn, [ISI], +1.518.633.aacc, +1.650.386.aadd, jun,

Zakim IRC Bot: As of this point the attendees have been Luc, pgroth, +1.646.389.aaaa, +1.832.386.aabb, paolo, stain, SamCoppens, jorn, [ISI], +1.518.633.aacc, +1.650.386.aadd, jun,

16:19:00 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, please draft minutes

16:19:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-prov-minutes.html trackbot

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/06/30-prov-minutes.html trackbot

16:19:01 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, bye

16:19:01 <RRSAgent> I see no action items

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see no action items

16:19:02 <Zakim> ... +1.509.375.aaee, +1.216.368.aaff, +1.217.417.aagg

Zakim IRC Bot: ... +1.509.375.aaee, +1.216.368.aaff, +1.217.417.aagg



Formatted by CommonScribe


This revision (#5) generated 2011-07-05 18:35:49 UTC by 'lmoreau', comments: None