<trackbot> Date: 22 July 2010

trackbot, start meeting

<trackbot> Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference

<trackbot> Date: 22 July 2010

<scribe> scribe: Harper_Simon

<scribe> ScribeNick: sharper

<scribe> meeting: User Agent Working Group Telecon - 22 July 2010

Links to key Documents:

editor versions

Guidelines - http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2010/ED-UAAG20-20100618/

Implementing -

http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2010/ED-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20100618/

Public documents

Guidelines - http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/WD-UAAG20-20100617/

Implementing - http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/WD-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20100617/

-- Attendance survey: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/UAWG20100707/

-- Scribe schedule and scribing help: http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/scribing.html

-- Please monitor your open Action Items:

http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/open

-- Open Issues:

http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/issues/open

<kford> /me thanks Simon for entering things.

<Jan> zaki, [IPcaller] is really Jan

Action Item Review

Coordinate details of informal UAAG writing meeting likely in early August.

KF Try 09:00 to 15:00 West Coast?

KF: 2nd and 3rd?

JR: Can Join

KF: Seems like we can try 12:00 to 18:00 East Coast Time
... Informal / try to create an agenda next week

SH: I'm on Vacation

KF: will follow up with MH re European participation

<scribe> ACTION: kford to Summarise details / schedule of the informal meeting to the list. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/07/22-ua-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-414 - Summarise details / schedule of the informal meeting to the list. [on Kelly Ford - due 2010-07-29].

Tracking UAAG implementations - complete browser of choice in tracking doc and we'll discuss during meeting.

KF: Started to look at this last week via our informal document

GL: people wanted to use columns, results for main browsers - opera has a lot complete
... Completed much work on firefox
... also added comments columns

JR: Gathering implementations really help highlight problem areas in a spec.

<Greg> Testing the guidelines against Firefox turned out to be very labor intensive, both because sometimes the success criteria prove ambiguous, in many cases you have to define, find, or create test cases, and in many cases you have to scour through lots of obscure documented and semi-documented advanced options to try to find if any will adjust the behavior you're testing.

KF: lets walk through guidelines and see what is implemented and what questions arise
... we should be able to see what SC's stand and which need more work.

ALL: General discussions on the 'What's Implemented Document'

<kford> This is the SC we are talking about.

<kford> 3.1.1 Identify Presence of Alternative Content: The user has the ability to have indicators rendered along with rendered elements that have alternative content (e.g. visual icons rendered in proximity of content which has short text alternatives, long descriptions, or captions). In cases where the alternative content has different dimensions than the original content, the user has the option...

<kford> ...to specify how the layout/reflow of the document should be handled. (Level A).

<Greg> We're looking at 3.1.1. Kelly pointed out the 2nd sentence wasn't appropriate; Greg thought it was about the original content plus indicator, rather than the alternate content. General agreement to remove the second sentence, instead relying on the link to a separate success criterion about reflow options in the Related Resources section of the Implementing document.

<Greg> Kelly notes that while we refer the reader to one, we haven't yet added the SC on user control of layout/reflow, so we should make sure there's an action item for creating that.

KF: we are going to have a numbe rof non trivial changes

<Greg> Simon and Jan are concerned that if we're changing the SC as we go, test results will become invalid, so maybe we should not test too many browsers until the SCs are more firm.

<Greg> Greg agreed that changes to the SC will require a new worksheet and manually porting columns with test results, adapting for changes to SC, renumbering, etc.

<Greg> Simon suggests we split up the work of testing against one browser, rather than split our effort across five browsers at this early point.

<Greg> Simon says another alternative is divide the guidelines into sections assigned to different people, who will test them against a browser of their choice.

KF Lets focus on Principle 3 for the moment

<scribe> ACTION: jeanne to Update 3.1.1 SC to end end where the text in the case starts (cut out the second sentence) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/07/22-ua-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-415 - Update 3.1.1 SC to end end where the text in the case starts (cut out the second sentence) [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-07-29].

<kford> 3.1.1 needs to be updated to say:

<kford> 3.1.1 Identify Presence of Alternative Content: The user has the ability to have indicators rendered along with rendered elements that have alternative content (e.g. visual icons rendered in proximity of content which has short text alternatives, long descriptions, or captions).

<kford> . (Level A).

<kford> 3.1.2 Configurable Default Rendering: The user has a global option to specify which types of alternative content by default and, in cases where the alternative content has different dimensions than the original content, how the layout/reflow of the document should be handled. (Level A)

<Greg> For Firefox 3.6.6: Partial: Replacing images with alt text works for remote images but not for local images. Changing reflow might be possible with scripts or extensions.

GL: remove the reflow clause too

KF: agreed

KF/GL: What do we really mean by this?

GL: in implementing Document - KF but this doc is not by which we measure performance - JR Agree

<Greg> Kelly noted that the SC needs to say specifically which types of alternative content are and are not required.

KF: Get people to say how they interpreted 'alt content' when the specify their conformance claims

JR: Recognised alternatives - people define these and then allow them to mould their claims around this
... people specify their environment and then make a claim based on those specifications

GL: Minimum we want to allow as a requirement in the conf claim is a subset of the recomentations
... We can't just limit it to recognised things, as everything will be recognised. If we allow a subset of things then we should specify these.

<Greg> Jan points out that ATAG and UAAG use different meanings for "recognized".

GL: can we clarify in glossary

<scribe> ACTION: Greg to Review the definition of "recognized", and see if modification is needed [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/07/22-ua-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-416 - Review the definition of "recognized", and see if modification is needed [on Greg Lowney - due 2010-07-29].

<scribe> ACTION: Jeanne to change 3.1.2 to 3.1.2 Configurable Default Rendering: The user has a global option to specify which types of alternative content to render by default. (Level A) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/07/22-ua-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-417 - Change 3.1.2 to 3.1.2 Configurable Default Rendering: The user has a global option to specify which types of alternative content to render by default. (Level A) [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-07-29].

<kford> 3.1.3 Browse and Render: The user can browse the alternatives, switch between them, and render them according to the following (Level A): * 1. synchronized alternatives for time-based media (e.g., captions, audio descriptions, sign language) can be rendered at the same time as their associated audio tracks and visual tracks, and * 2. non-synchronized alternatives (e.g., short text alternatives, lo

<kford> ng descriptions) can be rendered as replacements for the original rendered content.

GL: Screen magnification is a case to allow the removal of images

KP: Multiple images on a page - with small amounts of text at the bottom may have problems for limited mobility of continual paging

GL: Attention deficit problems is also a case

ALL still discussing these but the call ends.

<Greg> We need to makes sure that some SC allows the user to turn off images, which is currently only addressed by 3.1.2 but poorly, as the current wording requires showing alternative text but doesn't require turning off images.

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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Found Scribe: Harper_Simon
Found ScribeNick: sharper
Default Present: +1.425.895.aaaa, Greg, sharper, Jan, kford, Jeanne, +1.617.325.aabb
Present: +1.425.895.aaaa Greg sharper Jan kford Jeanne +1.617.325.aabb Ford_Kelly Harper_Simon Lowney_Greg Richards_Jan Spellman_Jeanne Patch_Kim
Regrets: Hakkinen_Mark Jim Allan_James
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2010JulSep/0017.html
Found Date: 22 Jul 2010
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2010/07/22-ua-minutes.html
People with action items: greg jeanne kford

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