RDFa in XHTML Task Force

Action Items

<scribe> ACTION: Manu to aggressively push review of test cases via mailing list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/29-rdfa-minutes.html#action08] [DONE]

Manu: Sent out overview
... Asked 3 new test cases to be reviewed.

<scribe> ACTION: Manu to try and find other interested parties in RDFa WG. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/22-rdfa-minutes.html#action08] [CONTINUES]

<scribe> ACTION: Ben to finish authoring RDFa WG charter. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/22-rdfa-minutes.html#action07] [CONTINUES]

<scribe> ACTION: Manu speak with Andy Seaborne about SPARQL.org implementation re: c14n [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action06] [DONE]

Manu: Do have more thoughts on RDFa WG, Ivan?

Ivan: We need more W3C members.
... Currently in talks with a number of people offline - we seem to be in good shape.
... If we have 2 large search companies and a number of other smaller companies (all W3C members) we're fine.
... We should expect questions that are raised regarding why RDFa is a separate group from Semantic Web.

<scribe> ACTION: Manu speak with Andy Seaborne about SPARQL.org implementation re: c14n [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action06] [DONE]

Manu: Jeremy Carroll said that this is a bug in Jena/SPARQL.org
... Andy seemed to imply it was as well.

<scribe> ACTION: Shane to look at XML spec and see if xml: is illegal in RDF/XML re: TC 142 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/22-rdfa-minutes.html#action09] [CONTINUES]

<scribe> ACTION: Shane to re-draft XMLLiteral errata text [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action04] [CONTINUES]

RDFa WG Charter

Ivan: I have one thing to mention re: the charter
... I don't think we should include the Microsoft extensibility thing as a part of the RDFa charter.
... What happens if the HTML5 group stops the extensibility mechanism? Our charter would be wrong.

Manu: Fine to remove it - we were attempting to express that we'd like to work with HTML WG on distributed extensibility.

Ivan: We need to remove names for W3C staff contact - wait until after a vote.

Manu: ok, made both changes to the charter.

Ivan: The other discussion we'll want to have is IG vs. WG

Shane: We want to publish REC track documents, so we have to be a WG.

Ivan: So, an open question is that RDFa 1.1 will probably apply to HTML5, so why the new WG?

Shane: XHTML+RDFa module has to be updated, and is work that is done independently of the HTML5 spec. That's why we need a new WG.

Manu: There is also an RDFa 1.1 Core spec

Ivan: Right, the underlying RDFa 1.1 Core spec would be independent of any language.
... There is MediaRSS - which is RDFa being used in a non-XHTML dialect.
... That should be a REC, and must be done by a WG, not at IG.

Shane: Sure - we should have some kind of language-agnostic RDFa 1.1 Core document.
... An evolution of the current spec could do that pretty easily.
... The XHTML logic is restricted to 1 chapter.

Ivan: A little more than that - we refer to href and img, and some other HTML dependent things.

<ShaneM> @src too

Ivan: We could do a generic spec which may have an additional XHTML spec.
... We have to be very specific about what the WG is producing.

profile/vocab discussion

Manu: @profile is perma-thread area on HTML WG and WHAT WG. We'll want to use @vocab
Shane: or <link rel="vocab" href="http://example.org/vocab#" />

RDFa DOM API

Manu: Two approaches - generic RDF DOM API, and a specific RDFa DOM API.

Ivan: We may not want to make this an HTML-specific thing.

Shane: I don't think there is an HTML DOM - so, we may want to do something that is XML-specific.
... XHTML/HTML DOM was something we never wanted to do.

Ivan: What might be faster and easier to define would be the RDFa-specific DOM API.
... At ISWC2009, there was a paper on how one could extract triples from an element.
... The point is that there is a slightly more general issue that is coming up.
... How can we reconcile this: How do I get and manage RDF data from Javascript in general? Regardless of whether or not it comes from RDFa?
... Tabulator was done in Javascript, data was extracted from all places... RDFa is just one source.
... it would be nice if these two things could be reconciled.
... Unless it becomes overcomplicated.

Manu: So, we could use the jQuery approach - specific API for RDFa
... Then jQuery provides the RDF query mechanism.

Shane: I think this could conflict with the way the HTML5 group does things.

Manu: I disagree, I think it's in-line with how the web is being developed. If we do the jQuery approach - we could tie in a unified RDF query mechanism, regardless of the underlying data expression mechanism - Microdata, RDFa, Microformats, etc.

Ivan: So, are we interested in a generic API to extract data out of triple stores, regardless of where it comes from.
... Is that something that the RDFa WG would like to solve?
... There is a clear pressure from a number of people that we need something at the triple store level... a specific RDFa API won't solve the real problem.

Shane: So, RDFa API is necessary, but not sufficient.

Ivan: Is another WG needed to provide this? Or can this be solved in the RDFa WG?
... What I'm interested in is the integrated triple store.
... From a SemWeb programmers point of view, this is what I'd want.

Shane: I see a couple of different things here, one of them is having triple-store access available. Via the DOM or otherwise.
... This is an API for extracting triples from a URI.

Ivan: In rdflib, there is no provenance.
... Everything gets merged into the same bin.

Manu: So is it fair to say that we're talking about a TripleStore API and a separate RDFa API? I'm worried about the amount of work required to accomplish a TripleStore API.

Ivan: Yes... but these two should meet somewhere.
... Maybe only at an implementation level.
... Some have said you don't need a TripleStore API - you only need a SPARQL API.
... Just like you don't have an API to get SQL data, you just issue SQL commands.
... I think charter text should make these points very clearly.

<scribe> ACTION: Manu to update the charter to talk about RDFa API [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/05-rdfa-minutes.html#action08]

Manu: We could do TripleStore API in jQuery, RDFa API in jQuery and natively?

Ivan: Maybe we want to put conditional item in there about TripleStore API
... Maybe we plan to have a Note on a generic TripleStore API.
... We would not be obligated to do TripleStore API, but we will look into the issue.