15:43:19 RRSAgent has joined #rdfa 15:43:19 logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/11/05-rdfa-irc 15:43:24 zakim, this will be rdfa 15:43:24 ok, manu; I see SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM scheduled to start in 17 minutes 15:43:49 Scribe: manu 15:44:07 Present: Manu_Sporny, Ben_Adida, Mark_Birbeck, Ivan_Herman 15:44:12 Regrets: Steven_Pemberton 15:44:17 Present+ Shane_McCarron 15:44:45 Meeting: RDFa in XHTML Task Force 15:44:57 Chair: Ben_Adida 15:45:34 rrsagent, make log public 15:45:38 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:45:38 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/05-rdfa-minutes.html manu 15:57:06 ShaneM has joined #rdfa 15:57:38 SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has now started 15:57:46 +shadi 15:57:51 zakim, I am shadi 15:57:51 ok, manu, I now associate you with shadi 15:57:58 zakim, shadi is manu 15:57:58 +manu; got it 15:58:03 +ShaneM 16:00:21 zakim, code? 16:00:21 the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), ivan 16:00:45 +Ivan 16:06:31 Topic: Action Items 16:06:36 ACTION: Manu to aggressively push review of test cases via mailing list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/29-rdfa-minutes.html#action08] 16:06:43 -- continue 16:07:00 Manu: Sent out overview 16:08:01 Manu: Asked 3 new test cases to be reviewed. 16:08:09 ACTION: Manu to try and find other interested parties in RDFa WG. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/22-rdfa-minutes.html#action08] 16:08:12 -- continues 16:08:51 benadida has joined #rdfa 16:08:51 ACTION: Ben to finish authoring RDFa WG charter. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/22-rdfa-minutes.html#action07] 16:08:54 -- continues 16:08:57 hey folks 16:09:15 ACTION: Manu speak with Andy Seaborne about SPARQL.org implementation re: c14n [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action06] 16:09:32 I'm having a bit of a child care "crisis" this morning, I have to send regrets, too, sorry for the last minute. 16:09:34 -- done 16:10:38 ok Ben, we'll continue the telecon without you, hope your crisis becomes "solved" soon. 16:11:05 yeah it's not horrendously serious, just requires my attention. 16:11:07 thanks. 16:11:34 Manu: Do have more thoughts on RDFa WG, Ivan? 16:12:09 Ivan: We need more W3C members. 16:12:51 Ivan: Currently in talks with a number of people offline - we seem to be in good shape. 16:13:50 Ivan: If we have 2 large search companies and a number of other smaller companies (all W3C members) we're fine. 16:14:55 rrsagent, drop action 4 16:15:32 Ivan: We should expect questions that are raised regarding why RDFa is a separate group from Semantic Web. 16:16:02 ACTION: Manu speak with Andy Seaborne about SPARQL.org implementation re: c14n [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action06] 16:16:19 -- done 16:16:32 Manu: Jeremy Carroll said that this is a bug in Jena/SPARQL.org 16:16:40 Manu: Andy seemed to imply it was as well. 16:16:50 ACTION: Shane to look at XML spec and see if xml: is illegal in RDF/XML re: TC 142 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/22-rdfa-minutes.html#action09] 16:16:52 -- continues 16:17:01 ACTION: Shane to re-draft XMLLiteral errata text [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action04] 16:17:29 -- continues 16:18:21 Topic: RDFa WG Charter 16:18:31 Ivan: I have one thing to mention re: the charter 16:18:53 Ivan: I don't think we should include the Microsoft extensibility thing as a part of the RDFa charter. 16:19:23 Ivan: What happens if the HTML5 group stops the extensibility mechanism? Our charter would be wrong. 16:19:46 Manu: Fine to remove it - we were attempting to express that we'd like to work with HTML WG on distributed extensibility. 16:21:33 Ivan: We need to remove names for W3C staff contact - wait until after a vote. 16:21:59 Manu: ok, made both changes to the charter. 16:22:41 Ivan: The other discussion we'll want to have is IG vs. WG 16:23:13 Shane: We want to publish REC track documents, so we have to be a WG. 16:24:17 Ivan: So, an open question is that RDFa 1.1 will probably apply to HTML5, so why the new WG? 16:25:13 Shane: XHTML+RDFa module has to be updated, and is work that is done independently of the HTML5 spec. That's why we need a new WG. 16:25:27 Manu: There is also an RDFa 1.1 Core spec 16:25:44 Ivan: Right, the underlying RDFa 1.1 Core spec would be independent of any language. 16:26:02 Ivan: There is MediaRSS - which is RDFa being used in a non-XML dialect. 16:26:14 Ivan: That should be a REC, and must be done by a WG, not at IG. 16:26:43 s/non-XML/non-XHTML/ 16:27:05 Shane: Sure - we should have some kind of language-agnostic RDFa 1.1 Core document. 16:27:15 Shane: An evolution of the current spec could do that pretty easily. 16:27:23 Shane: The XHTML logic is restricted to 1 chapter. 16:27:45 Ivan: A little more than that - we refer to href and img, and some other HTML dependent things. 16:27:53 @src too 16:28:26 Ivan: We could do a generic spec which may have an additional XHTML spec. 16:28:39 Ivan: We have to be very specific about what the WG is producing. 16:30:27 Topic: profile/vocab discussion 16:33:22 Manu: @profile is perma-thread area on HTML WG and WHAT WG. 16:33:34 Topic: RDFa DOM API 16:34:46 Manu: Two approaches - generic RDF DOM API, and a specific RDFa DOM API. 16:35:04 Ivan: We may not want to make this an HTML-specific thing. 16:35:41 Shane: I don't think there is an HTML DOM - so, we may want to do something that is XML-specific. 16:35:58 Shane: XHTML/HTML DOM was something we never wanted to do. 16:36:11 Ivan: What might be faster and easier to define would be the RDFa-specific DOM API. 16:36:43 Ivan: At ISWC2009, there was a paper on how one could extract triples from an element. 16:36:53 Ivan: The point is that there is a slightly more general issue that is coming up. 16:37:18 Ivan: How can we reconcile this: How do I get and manage RDF data from Javascript in general? Regardless of whether or not it comes from RDFa? 16:37:43 Ivan: TimBL was done in Javascript, data was extracted from all places... RDFa is just one source. 16:37:51 Ivan: it would be nice if these two things could be reconciled. 16:37:57 Ivan: Unless it becomes overcomplicated. 16:38:15 s/TimBL/Tabulator/ 16:41:31 Manu: So, we could use the jQuery approach - specific API for RDFa 16:41:41 Manu: Then jQuery provides the RDF query mechanism. 16:42:18 Shane: I think this could conflict with the way the HTML5 group does things. 16:47:19 Manu: If we do the jQuery approach - we could tie in a unified RDF query mechanism, regardless of the underlying data expression mechanism - Microdata, RDFa, Microformats, etc. 16:47:53 Ivan: So, are we interested in a generic API to extract data out of triple stores, regardless of where it comes from. 16:49:01 Ivan: Is that a something that the RDFa WG would like to solve? 16:50:30 Ivan: There is a clear pressure from a number of people that we need something at the triple store level... a specific RDFa API won't solve the real problem. 16:50:41 Shane: So, RDFa API is necessary, but not sufficient. 16:51:20 Ivan: Is another WG needed to provide this? Or can this be solved in the RDFa WG? 16:52:14 Ivan: What I'm interested in is the integrated triple store. 16:52:31 Ivan: From a SemWeb programmers point of view, this is what I'd want. 16:53:05 Shane: I see a couple of different things here, one of them is having triple-store access available. Via the DOM or otherwise. 16:53:13 Shane: This is an API for extracting triples from a URI. 16:53:55 Ivan: In rdflib, there is no provenance. 16:54:06 Ivan: Everything gets merged into the same bin. 16:54:42 Manu: So is it fair to say that we're talking about a TripleStore API? 16:54:50 Ivan: Yes... but these two should meet somewhere. 16:54:59 Ivan: Maybe only at an implementation level. 16:55:36 Ivan: Some have said you don't need a TripleStore API - you only need a SPARQL API. 16:55:54 Ivan: Just like you don't have an API to get SQL data, you just issue SQL commands. 16:59:16 Ivan: I think charter text should make these points very clearly. 16:59:33 ACTION: Manu to update the charter to talk about RDFa API 17:00:01 Manu: We could do TripleStore API in jquery? 17:00:27 Ivan: Maybe we want to put conditional item in there about TripleStore API 17:00:38 Ivan: Maybe we plan to have a Note on a generic TripleStore API. 17:01:10 Ivan: We would not be obligated to do TripleStore API, but we will look into the issue. 17:01:35 -ShaneM 17:01:37 -manu 17:01:39 -Ivan 17:01:39 SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has ended 17:01:41 Attendees were manu, ShaneM, Ivan 17:04:05 rrsagent, draft minutes 17:04:05 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/05-rdfa-minutes.html ivan 17:04:24 s/--continue/--continues/ 17:04:28 rrsagent, draft minutes 17:04:28 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/05-rdfa-minutes.html manu 17:05:03 Present- Mark_Birbeck 17:05:16 Present- Ben_Adida 17:05:35 Regrets: Ben_Adida, Mark_Birbeck 17:05:39 rrsagent, draft minutes 17:05:39 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/05-rdfa-minutes.html manu 17:06:04 Regrets+ Steven_Pemberton 17:06:06 rrsagent, draft minutes 17:06:06 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/05-rdfa-minutes.html manu 17:06:25 Chair: Manu_Sporny 17:06:27 rrsagent, draft minutes 17:06:27 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/05-rdfa-minutes.html manu 17:07:25 s/\-\-continue/\-\-continues/ 17:07:27 rrsagent, draft minutes 17:07:27 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/05-rdfa-minutes.html manu 17:07:44 s/Chair: Ben_Adida/Chair: Manu Sporny/ 17:07:47 rrsagent, draft minutes 17:07:47 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/05-rdfa-minutes.html manu 17:08:41 turns out, HTML WG call is replaced by F2F TPAC meeting. 17:48:29 rrsagent, bye 17:48:29 I see 7 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/05-rdfa-actions.rdf : 17:48:29 ACTION: Manu to aggressively push review of test cases via mailing list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/29-rdfa-minutes.html#action08] [1] 17:48:29 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/05-rdfa-irc#T16-06-36 17:48:29 ACTION: Manu to try and find other interested parties in RDFa WG. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/22-rdfa-minutes.html#action08] [2] 17:48:29 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/05-rdfa-irc#T16-08-09 17:48:29 ACTION: Ben to finish authoring RDFa WG charter. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/22-rdfa-minutes.html#action07] [3] 17:48:29 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/05-rdfa-irc#T16-08-51-1 17:48:29 ACTION: Manu speak with Andy Seaborne about SPARQL.org implementation re: c14n [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action06] [5] 17:48:29 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/05-rdfa-irc#T16-16-02 17:48:29 ACTION: Shane to look at XML spec and see if xml: is illegal in RDF/XML re: TC 142 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/22-rdfa-minutes.html#action09] [6] 17:48:29 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/05-rdfa-irc#T16-16-50 17:48:29 ACTION: Shane to re-draft XMLLiteral errata text [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action04] [7] 17:48:29 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/05-rdfa-irc#T16-17-01 17:48:29 ACTION: Manu to update the charter to talk about RDFa API [8] 17:48:29 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/05-rdfa-irc#T16-59-33 17:48:32 zakim, bye 17:48:32 Zakim has left #rdfa