RDF-in-XHTML Task Force -- 20 Nov 2008

Ben: I was invited to talk with Interlab (at Lawrence Livermore) alongside some Microformat folk,
... had a lovely time
... agreement that there was a place for both RDFa and Microformats
... a range of stuff people want to express
... use microformat vcard if it does what you want, use RDFa if you need to extend
... that audience pretty quickly saw the need to add their own extensions

<msporny> http://microformats.org/wiki/Main_Page

<msporny> http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard

Manu: Microformats is starting to markup their site in a style similar to W3C

Ben: get them to use RDFa in their specs :)

Ralph: yeah, embarass W3C into publishing RECs with RDFa by being second to do it ;)

Action Items

ACTION: [DONE] Ben to add forward pointer to old task force page to point to new TF page. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action13]

Ben: required writing a new task force page 'cause we didn't really have one

<benadida> old tf page --> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/HTML/

<benadida> new tf page --> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/

Ben: Michael had created a page, now cited from the new page, but it had too much detail for a TF home page

Manu: add a link to the wiki

ACTION: [PENDING] Ben to add public-rdfa examples to wiki and think of slightly improved top-level organization [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action11]

ACTION: [PENDING] Ben to put up information on "how to write RDFa" with screencast possibly and instructions on bookmarklet. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]

ACTION: [DONE] Manu to add test case for empty @about inside a chain [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action14]

Manu: see test case 120; "empty string "" is not equivalent to NULL"

ACTION: [PENDING] Jeremy to demonstrate GRDDL with XHTML/RDFa once the NS URI is set up. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action03]

ACTION: [PENDING] Manu talk with Jamie McCarthy about an AskSlashdot piece [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action04]

ACTION: [DONE] Manu to create two TCs to test fragment identifiers dropped during URI resolution against [base] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-rdfa-minutes.html#action13]

Manu:see test cases 118; Fragment identifiers stripped from BASE and 119; Fragment identifiers resolved correctly for subjects/objects

ACTION: [PENDING] Manu to write summary for Semantic Web Use Cases for Ivan. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action09]

ACTION: [PENDING] Manu write the perl code for Slashdot. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action11]

ACTION: [PENDING] Mark create base wizard suitable for cloning [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]

Ben: should we look for more resources on this? some collaborators?

Mark: I volunteered for this action because I do have an old wizard for XForms
... was originally written for a plug-in that required installation
... we have a new project; Ubiquity XForms that's an ajax library
... the wizard running in Ubiquity XForms would run on any browser
... that's what I've been planning to do
... just been swamped

Ben: I'd come across Ubiquity XForms while searching for something else
... seems pretty cool
... perhaps I might be able to help

Mark: happy to share what I have; may be a good way to learn XForms too
... it's not a complex wizard
... I used the FOAF RDF Schema in my old wizard, which I thought made this more useful

<Steven> Advert for Ben - http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/2003/xforms-for-html-authors.html

Ben: yes, nice to drive the whole thing from RDF

ACTION: Mark to send Ben ubiquity related wizard stuff [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/20-rdfa-minutes.html#action11]

ACTION: [PENDING] Mark write foaf examples for wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action13]

ACTION: [PENDING] Michael to create 'RDFa for uF users' on RDFa Wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action14]

ACTION: [PENDING] Ralph think about RSS+RDFa [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action15]

Ben: RSS+RDFa came up at the Interlab talk

<markbirbeck> Ubiquity XForms http://ubiquity-xforms.googlecode.com/

Ben: extensibility is important

Steven: I wrote something on one of Mark's wikis a while ago
... but it disappeared

Mark: yeah, unfortunately I lost that wiki data due to spam

Manu: there's a lot of similarity between hAtom and SIOC
... ought to be easy to write a tool to extract the SIOC triples and rewrite it as hAtom
... use SIOC as the base syndication format

Ben: Atom is built to be extensible
... so there's an interesting case to be made specifically for this use case

<Steven> [1]

<Steven> <http://internet-apps.blogspot.com/2005/01/xhtml-2-as-universal-document.htm

Steven: [2] is the dead link

<Steven> More on rss+RDFa - http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/syndication/message/548

Test Cases

Test 116

<msporny> TC 116: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Nov/0027.html

-> Test Case #116: Relative URLs must be resolved in resulting triples

<msporny> Title should be "XML Entities must be supported by RDFa parser"

Ralph: it's important that the MIME type of the document describing the expected results is clear. E.g. if it's XML then some re-encoding is needed

RESOLUTION: test case 116 approved

Test 117

<msporny> TC 117: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Nov/0028.html

Manu: 117 is Toby Inkster's test for reserved words in @property; a negative test

Manu: any other triples that shouldn't be generated? :)

Mark: Toby's wording suggested a specific triple shouldn't be generated
... in fact, this test should generate _no_ triples

RESOLUTION: test case 117 approved

Test 118

<msporny> TC 118: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Nov/0029.html

<msporny> Description should be: "This test case should strip the fragment from [base] when generating the subject of the triple."

<msporny> That description should replace the contents of the <p> tag

Mark: I'd like to see a test with base in the body
... the algorithm for @about="" needs to do the correct thing in both HEAD and BODY

Manu: could add another triple in the body in 118

<msporny> <div property="dc:contributor">Mark Birbeck</div> added this

<msporny> triple test.

Manu: add this to 118

<msporny> ASK WHERE {

<msporny> "Test 0118" .

<msporny> "Mark Birbeck" .

<msporny> }

<msporny> Corrected HTML:

<msporny> <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML+RDFa 1.0//EN"

<msporny> "http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/DTD/xhtml-rdfa-1.dtd">

<msporny> <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"

<msporny> xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/">

<msporny> <div property="dc:contributor">Mark Birbeck</div> added this

<msporny> triple test.

RESOLUTION: test case 118 approved with addition of triple in body

Test 119

-> Test Case #119: Fragment identifiers resolved correctly for subjects/objects

<msporny> TC 119: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Nov/0030.html

Manu: note @about as well as @href with an invalid fragment
... I believe per the HTML spec that the last fragment identifier is the one that's used

Ben: how do browsers behave?

Mark: not sure you can rely on the browser behavior here

Ralph: I recommend that the test case cite the part of the HTML spec you're relying on for the "#invalid#manu" resolution

Mark: I have a URI test suite that I'd built out of frustration a while ago
... I believe I have an RFC-faithful implementation

Mark: and my implementation retains everything after the first '#'
... the first '#' indicates "from here on you have a fragment identifier"

Shane: I agree with Mark
... as does my implementation

<markbirbeck> http://ubiquity-backplane.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/_unit-tests/main.html

Shane: using a standard perl URI library, everything after the first embedded '#' is URI-encoded
... kind of surprising; I didn't expect this

<markbirbeck> This is a test suite that uses all of the examples in the RFC.

Mark: the re-encoding isn't wrong

Ben: we need to be sure about the URI spec before we approve 119

<msporny> TC 120: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Nov/0031.html

Test 120

-> Test Case #120: empty string "" is not equivalent to NULL

RESOLUTION: test 120 approved

Question on spec from Johan

<ShaneM> email said: Step 7 and 9 create RDF triples using the [new subject] (http://www.w3.org/TR/rdfa-syntax/#T_new_subject) I assume these create statements are honored if the [new subject] is not null (same condition as on step 6).

Mark: the reported bug isn't quite correct but he did spot something
... the question asked if there ought to be a guard against not having a new subject in other steps
... but in fact the guard isn't needed in step 6 either

Shane: by the time you get to step 6 you will have a new subject

Mark: the step Johan is specifically referring to mentions @typeof, which will always be the case
... the current guard is not at all necessary

Ralph: not harmful though?

Mark: right, I'd remove it in an errata just so it doesn't confuse anyone else

Shane: let's add it to the errata document now
... I'll update errata and reply to the commentor

ACTION: Shane to update the errata document to reflect that step 6 has extra text about a new subject - also respond to Johan who sent private mail, copying the task force. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/11/20-rdfa-minutes.html#action15]

Ben: next meeting in 2 weeks; 4 December

Mark: I have an almost-finished blog post on relating vocabularies; will finish that for discussion in 2 weeks

Ben: also look at @prefix writeup in the wiki

Mark: [rethinking test 119] I'm now thinking a fragment cannot contain '#'
... though '?' and '/' are allowed back in fragment IDs
... the reader should stop reading on the second '#'
... that's my interpretation now

[adjourned]

RDF-in-XHTML Task Force

20 Nov 2008

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