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<DanC> ScribeNick: SerT
<DanC> Scribe: Sergio Tessaris
<DanC> minutes 26 Jan
<DanC> minutes 26 Jan
<DanC> RESOLVED to approve minutes 26 Jan
<ericP> AndyS___, definitely W3C?
<DanC> next meeting 6 Feb?
<DanC> RESOLVED: to meet again 6 Feb. Lee to scribe.
<libby> 7 feb?
<DanC> RESOLVED: to meet again 7 Feb. Lee to scribe.
<DanC> new protocol WD
<kendallclark> I'd like to thank all the little people...
<DanC> ACTION: KC to work on edited changelog since 2005-09-14 LCWD [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/31-dawg-minutes.html#action01]
<DanC> the [SRD] cite
<DanC> ACTION: KC to update protocol references to [SRD] and WSDL [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/31-dawg-minutes.html#action02]
<DanC> new results format spec
<DanC> ACTION: EricP to arrange for announcement of results format spec [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/31-dawg-minutes.html#action03]
<kendallclark> When the value of the query type is not a legal sequence of characters in the language defined by the SPARQL grammar, the MalformedQuery fault message should be returned. According to the Fault Replaces Message Rule, if a WSDL fault is returned, including MalformedQuery, an Out Message must not be returned.
<DanC> cases: (1) a syntax error that returns QueryRequestRefused (2) a syntax error (i.e. extension) that returns an Out Message
<kendallclark> I'll do some scribing, then:
<AndyS___> I support case (2) - whether that is a SPARQL service, I don't know
<kendallclark> I prefer a design where a service can support a superset of the language and can return an Out Message even though the request is technically a syntax error.
<kendallclark> As for (1), I'd be happy to say that MalformedQuery fault has precedence over QueryRequestRefused; that is, when a service may return either, it must return MalformedQuery -- but I'm not sure how *this* preference interacts with my other preference.
option (2) requires (possibly) multiple server endpoints
<kendallclark> yes, and that's also an implementation burden on *clients* to be in some sense syntax checkers...
<DanC> AFS: (1) should be allowed, (2) not
<AndyS___> I also support protocol extensions :-)
<DanC> SH: like AFS
<DanC> EP: yes please (2)...
option (2) allows language extensions
<DanC> EP: yes, (1) is allowed
<ericP> EP again fuzzy on the ramifications of 1
<kendallclark> but what if it's "FRM <
<kendallclark> ...>"
<ericP> SELECT * --THINK_REALLY_HARD WHERE { ?s ?p ?o }
<kendallclark> how about: <strong><strong>should</strong></strong>? :>
<LeeF> works for me !
<AndyS___> "should" means "implementers must think and have good reason not to follow the text"
<kendallclark> So how about this proposal for fixing the spec:
<kendallclark> 1. Leave the language in the spec alone.
<kendallclark> 2. Add a bit about deploying a separate interface if you want to deploy sparql++
<kendallclark> (We only want to extend the protocol, which isn't really at issue here. That's clearly a separate WSDL interface. Done.)
<kendallclark> I don't care about the label on the box, Eric. I just said that. :>
<kendallclark> hmm, +1 to pat's suggestion. it's complex-er, but I think it's reasonable.
<LeeF> All talk of SPARQL Extended interfaces smack of lack of interoperability to me
<LeeF> smack?
<LeeF> stink?
<kendallclark> yes, stink.
<kendallclark> this ALL stinks. :>
<LeeF> Yes
<patH> gentlemen, please...
<DanC> I'd like: ACTION KC: add an example of a "SPARQL++" query in the spec, and think about a separate interface
<AndyS___> I have users using http://host/x?query=...&stylesheet=...
<LeeF> Are there syntaxes differences for OWL entailment?
<LeeF> "syntaxes differences"? uggh, I'm full of bad writing today.
I don't think so
<DanC> ACTION: EricP to provide a "SPARQL++" example query in the accessingCollections neighborhood [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/31-dawg-minutes.html#action04]
<DanC> ACTION: KC to add an example of a "SPARQL++" query in the spec, and think about a separate interface [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/31-dawg-minutes.html#action05]
<ericP> I note that I am advocating motion towards a slippery slope (and apologize).
<LeeF> Related, but orthogonal.
<ericP> patH, could you give me a notional SPARQL query that would ask for results of OWL entailment (and is not a currently valid SPARQL query)?
<DanC> Please have opinions formed and on the WG list by agenda-building time on Mon 6 Jan
<patH> Eric, I can make one up.
<LeeF> Mon 6 Feb
<DanC> Please have opinions formed and on the WG list by agenda-building time on Mon 6 Feb. [tx]
<kendallclark> hmm, eric, FWIW, i'd like 2: one from pat re: owl, one from you re: the list functionality stufff you were talking about earlier re: annotea
<DanC> Draft response to: Re: major technical: blank nodes
<kendallclark> reasonable
<kendallclark> ?
<DanC> Dan's [OK?] msg
Dan's answer is fine
<LeeF> link to PFPS original message?
PH to respond to PFPS comments
<DanC> ACTION
<DanC> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/issues#rdfSemantics
<ericP> kendallclark, re 2 examples, yup that was my plan (well, at least those two)
<LeeF> There's also a postponed issue there, isn't there?
<DanC> partial reply to Barstow: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2005Sep/0008.html
<LeeF> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/issues#accessingCollections
<kendallclark> (I was just wishing this morning that we'd gone with Versa for more of our syntax. ;>)
<DanC> ACTION: DanC to complete response to Barstow [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/31-dawg-minutes.html#action06]
<scribe> ACTION: patH to respond to PFPS comments [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/31-dawg-minutes.html#action07]
<DanC> ACTION: AndyS to draft reply to Wood [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/31-dawg-minutes.html#action08]
<DanC> AndyS: I'm also working on Fred's editorial stuff.
<DanC> ADJOURN
<LeeF> thanks, everyone.
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.127 of Date: 2005/08/16 15:12:03 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Found ScribeNick: SerT Found Scribe: Sergio Tessaris WARNING: No "Present: ... " found! Possibly Present: AFS AndyS AndyS___ DanC EP EliasT IBMCambridge IPcaller JosDeRoo Jos_De_Roo Kendall_Clark LeeF Libby_Miller P10 PatH SH ScribeNick SerT SteveH SvenGroppe bijan cases ericP inserted kendallclark libby You can indicate people for the Present list like this: <dbooth> Present: dbooth jonathan mary <dbooth> Present+ amy WARNING: Replacing previous Regrets list. (Old list: Souri) Use 'Regrets+ ... ' if you meant to add people without replacing the list, such as: <dbooth> Regrets+ Enrico Regrets: Enrico Got date from IRC log name: 31 Jan 2006 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2006/01/31-dawg-minutes.html People with action items: andys danc ericp kc path WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]