W3C

- DRAFT -

SWBPD WG

25 Jul 2005

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
Phil_Tetlow, Ralph, David_Wood, ph, Fabien, DBooth, ChrisW, Alistair_Miles, +31.20.465.aaaa, Mike, Jacco, DanBri, Libby, Giorgos_Stamou, Jeremy, +1.441.316.aabb, Jeff, +44.131.667.aacc
Regrets
Guus_Schreiber, Tom_Baker, Natasha_Noy, Benjamin_Nguyen, Deb_McGuinness, Elisa_Kendall, Evan_Wallace, Jeff_Pan
Chair
DavidW
Scribe
Chris

Contents


 

Previous: 2004-07-11 http://www.w3.org/2005/07/11-swbp-minutes.html

Phil: Jeff Pan sends regrets

1. Admin

<scribe> Scribe: Chris

PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the 11 July telecon:

-> http://www.w3.org/2005/07/11-swbp-minutes.html 2005-07-11 meeting record

RESOLVED to accept the minutes of the 11 July telecon:

<danbri> [Next Telecon

<danbri> Guus: in 2 weeks next, July 25th I'm on holiday]

<Chris_scribe> daveW: need to establish by end of summer targets for f2f

PROPOSED next meeting 22 August

<Chris_scribe> ...f2f gets us near end of charter

RESOLVED next meeting 22 August

<Chris_scribe> ralph: notes 2 requests for reviews of other docs

<Chris_scribe> ...web acces. initiative and sparql

<danbri> http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-rdf-sparql-query-20050721/

<danbri> http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-EARL10-Requirements-20050711/

<Chris_scribe> added to agenda at end of liasons

2. LIAISON

2.1 Proposed resolution httpRange-14

<scribe> ACTION: Ralph, DavidW, and DavidB to an initial draft of TAG httpRange-14 resolution impact on semweb application developers [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/06/27-swbp-minutes.html#action02]

<Chris_scribe> agendum: 2. LIAISON

<Chris_scribe> 2.1 Proposed resolution httpRange-14

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Jul/0045.html DBooth's thing-defined-by proposal

<Chris_scribe> dbooth: would like proposal to be considered

<Chris_scribe> ...propose we do NOT take action until so

<danbri> url for proposal, dbooth?

<Chris_scribe> danbri, see above

<danbri> ah sorry :)

<DavidW> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Jul/0071.html

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Jul/0071.html DBooth expands on thing-described-by

<Chris_scribe> davidW: how to respond?

<Chris_scribe> dbooth: would like more input

[I intend to consider DBooth's thing-defined-by idea but not let that me stop drafting words on the httpRange-14 TAG resolution]

<Chris_scribe> jjc: inclination to stay quiet, some people seem to be able to live with it

<danbri> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2005Jul/0012.html -- http-range resolution - should we ask purl.org to make 303 redirects possible? (DC, RSS1, ...) Dan Brickley

<Chris_scribe> dbooth: my proposal is a follow-on to tags proposal

<Zakim> danbri, you wanted to suggest david's proposal is orthogonal; but that choice of HTTP code needs further discussion

<Chris_scribe> danbri: people are exhausted w/ topic, lots of email and proposals. Dbooth's proposal looks like a value-add, but no need for it to come from a w3c group

<Chris_scribe> ...purl.org have a service that would require re-tooling to be compliant (Danbri check I'm getting this)

<danbri> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2005Jul/0012.html

<Zakim> Ralph, you wanted to say [I intend to consider DBooth's thing-defined-by idea but not let that me stop drafting words on the httpRange-14 TAG resolution]

<danbri> [[Many pre-HTTP/1.1 user agents do not understand the 303

<danbri> status. When interoperability with such clients is a concern, the

<danbri> 302 status code may be used instead, since most user agents react

<danbri> to a 302 response as described here for 303.]]

<Chris_scribe> ralph: not carefully considered dbooth's proposal, but don't intend to hold up considering action item

<Chris_scribe> ...still drafting language in response to tag proposal.

[reminder to re-read the actual text of the TAG's resolution too]

<Chris_scribe> davidw: agree with ralph

<Chris_scribe> ...move forward with action as stands and dbooth's proposal as sep. issues

<Zakim> danbri, you wanted to be more concrete, we accept, conditional on TAG noting that a 302 HTTP response is also acceptable (since purl.org use that, and HTTP/1.1 allows the

[searching http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/issues.html?type=1#httpRange-14 for a pointer to the resolution, doesn't see one obvious]

Jeremy: DBooth's t-b-d proposal is more like things that IETF does
... hence an Internet Draft may be more appropriate than a BP Note
... I think Best Practice notes should only be written about established practices

<danbri> +1 re new practice

<Chris_scribe> jjc: don't think best practice should be a proposal for a new practice

<Chris_scribe> agendum: 2.2 XML Schema Last Call

<DavidW> XSCD doc:

<DavidW> http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-xmlschema-ref-20050329/

<jjc> I volunteer - I've read earlier docs.

<jjc> when's the deadline?

<Chris_scribe> ACTION: jjc to review XML Schema last call [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/25-swbp-minutes.html#action02]

<Chris_scribe> agendum 2.3 OMG: ODM review

<scribe> ACTION: Guus to comment on ODM [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/06/27-swbp-minutes.html#action05]

-- continues

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Jul/0085.html ODM update [Elisa]

2.4 SPARQL

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2005Jul/0025.html Last Call for comments on "SPARQL Query Language for RDF"

<dbooth> Ralph: SPARQL went to Last Call last week.

<Chris_scribe> ralph: some swbp input to DAWL/Sparql, feedback solicited

<dbooth> ... We were asked last year to give input on subject and something else. We were requested by the DAWG chair to give final feedback on how our ealier feedback was recorded.

<Chris_scribe> davidw: looks like it has grown considerably

<Chris_scribe> davidw: important stuff - we need to get a review from swbp

[?do we _need_ to do a review?]

<DavidW> Ralph, no, but it would be a shame if we didn't care...

<Zakim> danbri, you wanted to ask about testing

<Chris_scribe> danbri: rdf test cases were a huge part of the rdf spec - doesn't seem to have the same emphasis in sparql

<Chris_scribe> ...might be worth some comment

<danbri> (& _deployment_, ralph?)

<Chris_scribe> jjc: notes that test cases in webont prceeded differently

<Chris_scribe> davidw: agrees that test cases are important for encouraging interoperability

<jjc> fixed!

<jjc> (in response to danbri's rdf syntax test case)

2.5 EARL

-> http://www.w3.org/TR/EARL10/ EARL 1.0 [WD 2002-12-06]

<Chris_scribe> ralph: from web access. initiative

<Chris_scribe> ...earl is a way to record the evaluations of accessibility of web pages

<Chris_scribe> ...seems like a natural RDF app (metadata)

<aliman> See also http://www.w3.org/TR/EARL10-Requirements/ 2005-07-11

-> http://www.w3.org/TR/EARL10-Requirements/ Requirements for the Evaluation and Report Language (EARL) 1.0 [WD 2005-07-11]

<jjc> This is a W3C Working Draft produced by the Evaluation and Repair Tools Working Group (ERT WG)

<aliman> See also http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/EARL10/WD-EARL10-Schema-20050711.html editor's draft 11 july 2005

<Chris_scribe> ralph: seems appropriate for swbp to review

<jjc> it's very short

<Chris_scribe> ...no formal request to review, but it is possible

<jjc> i'll do it - it'll only take thirty mins

<jjc> key line:

<jjc> EARL 1.0 will be an RDF Schema as defined by the RDF Vocabulary Description Language 1.0

Ralph: EARL was an RDF application at one time, I assume it might still be

Topic 3.1 PORT

<Chris_scribe> agendum: 3. TF UPDATES

<Chris_scribe> 3.1 PORT (Alistair)

<scribe> ACTION: Guus ask Mark if he can review next SKOS edits [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/11-swbp-minutes.html#action04] [WITHDRAWN]

<jjc> ACTION: jjc review EARL requirements [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/25-swbp-minutes.html#action05]

Alistair: I've contacted Mark myself

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Jul/0077.html [PORT] review process [Alistair]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Jul/0078.html RE: [PORT] review process [Alistair]

<Chris_scribe> alistair: will inform guus of dropped action

<Chris_scribe> alistair: seeking feedback on the policies for reviews described above

<Chris_scribe> davidw: seems ok, note ralph's comments

<Chris_scribe> alistair: mainly concerned that reviewers have the ability to "veto" changes

<DavidW> Ralph, humbly pleased?

<Chris_scribe> ralph: seemed liek proposal was asking reviewers to do the job of the TF

<Chris_scribe> ...see now that getting outside comments was considered reviewing

<Chris_scribe> ...which is fine. Main job of reviewers in SWBP is to approve next WD (or notes)

<danbri> [yup. tf lead should report substantive dissagreements to the wg, but can advise wg to move ahead anyway...]

3.2 OEP

Chris: everyone's been on vacation

<scribe> ACTION: Guus review new n-ary relations editor's draft [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/06/27-swbp-minutes.html#action04]

<scribe> ACTION: Ralph review new n-ary relations editor's draft [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/06/27-swbp-minutes.html#action03]

-- continues

Chris: the latest editor's draft is on the OEP page and has been ready for review

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Jul/0081.html OEP Update from Deb

3.3 WordNet

<scribe> ACTION: Aldo to propose an update the Wordnet TF description [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/25-swbp-minutes.html#action08]

-- continues

DanBri: I think we should consider closing this TF

3.4 XML Schema datatypes

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Jul/0058.html Re: XML Schema Datatypes in RDF and OWL [Dave Reynolds]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Apr/0094.html comment: "XML Schema Datatypes in RDF and OWL" [Frank Manola]

Jeremy: with an implementor's hat, I was part of the Jena team that decided the xpath solution hard to implement
... as an editor, I took the users' perspective that the xpath solution was the better one

<Chris_scribe> jeffp to draft a response to dave reynolds

3.5 Vocabulary Management

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Jul/0064.html [VM] Telecon report - 2005-07-19 [Tom]

<jjc> ACTION: jeffp to draft a response to dave reynolds [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/25-swbp-minutes.html#action09]

<Chris_scribe> davidw: do you anticipate TF taking a stand on IRIs?

<Chris_scribe> ralph: expect there to be practical issues TF can't propose solutions for

<Zakim> Jeremy, you wanted to talk about iri

<jjc> iri spec if rfc ???? see in a min

Jeremy: [the intent of the RDF Core WG was that] IRIs are usable in the Semantic Web

<jjc> RFC 3987

<Chris_scribe> (from IETF)

-> http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3987.txt IRIs

<Chris_scribe> agendum3.6 RDF-in-HTML (Ben)

<scribe> ACTION: Gavin find out from his community and contacts if they have use cases for GRDDL [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/25-swbp-minutes.html#action10]

<Chris_scribe> agendum 3.6 RDF-in-HTML (Ralph)

<jjc> http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3987.txt

<scribe> ACTION: Ralph suggest to XHTML TF that Jeremy's WWW2005 Talk be turned into a document [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/06/27-swbp-minutes.html#action07] [DONE]

-> http://www.w3.org/2005/07/19-swbp-minutes.html Report on 19 July telecon

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Jun/0073.html Interest in GRDDL from IPTC [Tom]

<danbri> The International Press Telecommunications Council -- http://www.iptc.org/

<Chris_scribe> ralph: IPRC has interest in GRDDL and embedding RDF-in-HTML,

<Chris_scribe> ... seems to be little interest in GRDDL in SWBP

<Chris_scribe> davidW: grddl exists as a solution.

<Zakim> Jeremy, you wanted to iptc

Jeremy: IPTC seems to be concerned about bandwidth
... so the GRDDL stylesheet might be too long for them

<Zakim> Ralph, you wanted to reply

<Chris_scribe> ralph: so rdf/a may not be a solution because of bandwidth and thus grddl

Ralph: yes, compactness of encoding is an issue for IPTC but rather than that being an issue for GRDDL it is a potential advantage for GRDDL over an RDF/A solution

<Chris_scribe> agendum: 3.7 ADTF (Libby)

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Jul/0068.html Semantic Web Applications and Demos [Libby]

<jjc> yes to ralph, ...

<scribe> ACTION: Libby gives DanBri html fragment for wg homepage [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/11-swbp-minutes.html#action05] [DONE]

<scribe> ACTION: DanBri update wg homepage w/ pointer to doap registry from Libby [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/11-swbp-minutes.html#action06] [DONE]

<Chris_scribe> davidw: tagging apps/demos with RDF/OWL applicability issue?

<jrvosse> libby, i've been asking jeen broekstra to make a doap profile for openrdf.org, he responded he was already working on one...

<Chris_scribe> libby: some technical challenges to do with Grddl/blog interoperation

3.8 RDFTM

<scribe> ACTION: Guus send email to Steve Pepper re status of new rdftm draft [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/11-swbp-minutes.html#action07]

-- continues

3.9 Tutorial Page

Ralph: Benjamin sent regrets for today's meeting

<Chris_scribe> jeffp will ping benjamin

3.10 SE TF

<scribe> ACTION: Chris and Benjamin to review SETF note [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/06/27-swbp-minutes.html#action08]

-- continues

3.11 MM TF Proposal

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Jul/0066.html Multimedia Annotation Task Force Proposal [Giorgos]

<Chris_scribe> giorgos: Two work items, survey of work and best practices for annotating multimedia documents for SW

<Chris_scribe> ...have something to start with, can deliver by end of sept.

<Chris_scribe> ...for video, we have one more year (???), perhaps do something about transformation (of what???)

<Chris_scribe> giorgio: will start with covering abstract levels of information in MM docs

<Chris_scribe> ...try to classify standards into these levels (e.g. syntactic, semantic, ...)

<Chris_scribe> ralph: exciting work, share concern with chair that need to find realistic short-term deliverables

<Zakim> Jeremy, you wanted to talk about HP situation

<jjc> Possible HP concern over overlap between TF and XG (incubator group) - still being discussed inside HP

DavidW: I'd like to delay formal approval of the TF until next meeting
... as Guus was instrumental

Jeremy: I've not heard any objections to this task force

<Zakim> Ralph, you wanted to comment on participation

<mike> How much actual best practice exists for multi-media annotation?

Ralph: a new TF does add to the WG's work load and the WG is under-represented at today's telecon
... I'm concerned that there be critical mass of WG participants who agree to work with this TF

Mike: are there existing practices to evaluate?

Giorgos: yes, there are practices to look at

David: hearing a lot of discussion, I judge that we need to defer a formal decision to next telecon

Ralph: meanwhile, feel free to use the WG mailing list to discuss the content

<aliman> thanks folks :)

<libby> thanks all

<FabGandon> Bye.

Giorgos: please take this up earlier on the agenda next time

David: yes

[adjourned]

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Aldo to propose an update the Wordnet TF description [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/25-swbp-minutes.html#action08]
[NEW] ACTION: Chris and Benjamin to review SETF note [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/06/27-swbp-minutes.html#action08]
[NEW] ACTION: Gavin find out from his community and contacts if they have use cases for GRDDL [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/25-swbp-minutes.html#action10]
[NEW] ACTION: Guus review new n-ary relations editor's draft [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/06/27-swbp-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: Guus send email to Steve Pepper re status of new rdftm draft [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/11-swbp-minutes.html#action07]
[NEW] ACTION: Guus to comment on ODM [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/06/27-swbp-minutes.html#action05]
[NEW] ACTION: jeffp to draft a response to dave reynolds [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/25-swbp-minutes.html#action09]
[NEW] ACTION: jjc review EARL requirements [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/25-swbp-minutes.html#action05]
[NEW] ACTION: jjc to review XML Schema last call [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/25-swbp-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: Ralph review new n-ary relations editor's draft [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/06/27-swbp-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: Ralph, DavidW, and DavidB to an initial draft of TAG httpRange-14 resolution impact on semweb application developers [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/06/27-swbp-minutes.html#action02]
 
[DONE] ACTION: DanBri update wg homepage w/ pointer to doap registry from Libby [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/11-swbp-minutes.html#action06]
[DONE] ACTION: Libby gives DanBri html fragment for wg homepage [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/11-swbp-minutes.html#action05]
[DONE] ACTION: Ralph suggest to XHTML TF that Jeremy's WWW2005 Talk be turned into a document [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/06/27-swbp-minutes.html#action07]
 
[DROPPED] ACTION: Guus ask Mark if he can review next SKOS edits [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/11-swbp-minutes.html#action04]
 
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.126 (CVS log)
$Date: 2005/07/25 19:20:47 $

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This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.126  of Date: 2005/05/16 16:49:48  
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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/perl/purl/
Succeeded: s/use cases/use cases for GRDDL/
No ScribeNick specified.  Guessing ScribeNick: Ralph
Found Scribe: Chris
Default Present: Phil_Tetlow, Ralph, David_Wood, ph, Fabien, DBooth, ChrisW, Alistair_Miles, +31.20.465.aaaa, Mike, Jacco, DanBri, Libby, Giorgos_Stamou, Jeremy, +1.441.316.aabb, Jeff, +44.131.667.aacc
Present: Phil_Tetlow Ralph David_Wood ph Fabien DBooth ChrisW Alistair_Miles +31.20.465.aaaa Mike Jacco DanBri Libby Giorgos_Stamou Jeremy +1.441.316.aabb Jeff +44.131.667.aacc
Regrets: Guus_Schreiber Tom_Baker Natasha_Noy Benjamin_Nguyen Deb_McGuinness Elisa_Kendall Evan_Wallace Jeff_Pan
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Jul/0070.html
Got date from IRC log name: 25 Jul 2005
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2005/07/25-swbp-minutes.html
People with action items: aldo benjamin chris davidb davidw email gavin guus jeffp jjc ralph send

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