W3C

SemWeb BPD WG

27 Jun 2005

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
Guus Schreiber, Evan Wallace, Ralph Swick, Chris Welty, Phil Tetlow, Alistair Miles, Tom Baker, Elisa Kendall, David Wood, David Booth, Natasha Noy, Deb McGuinness, Benjamin Nguyen (by irc only)
Regrets
(none, noted)
Chair
Guus
Scribe
Alistair

Contents


Admin

<Ralph> ScribeNick: aliman_scribe

<Ralph> Scribe: Alistair

<Ralph> previous meeting 2005-06-16

guus: proposed to accept minutes above ...
... any corrections?

Elisa: second

guus: resolved.

<Ralph> ACTION: [DONE] Ralph post telecon date resolution to the list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/06/27-swbp-minutes.html#action01]

Liaison

2.1 Proposed resolution httpRange-14

ralph: tag found a solution that does not rely on uri string syntax at all, but relies on http result codes ...
... solution on the books for severalyears ...
... heard more support recently ...
... allow 3xx code as response for x other than a document ...
... asked coord group if there will be formal finding
... do not expect to publish a formal finding
... roy fieldings email deemed to be sufficient
... don't expect to see any more

guus: do we need to take any action? explain consequences?

david: vmtf talked a bit about it, tom posted report ...

<Ralph> [VM] Report of 2005-06-21 telecon [Tom Baker 2005-06-27]

david: thinks tom doesn't go far enough
... we should clean up after this decision
... go back to each tf, ask them to fold in best practices comments around this issue
... VM started, others should do same

guus: discuss per tf, or as general?
... hear preference for doing per tf

david: do it per tf *publication* ...
... as raised at last f2f
... cleaner for us to address piecemeal in docs, rather than as a wg note in general

guus: ok, per tf

<Zakim> dbooth, you wanted to say that the TAG resolution still seems to leave the question of identification somewhat open

<Guus> qw?

dbooth: each tf makes its own recommendation re best practices ...
... ?

tag resolution still leaves open the recommended way to identify things

scribe: bp should be clear about this
... not clear to me as a wg what we are recommending

<Zakim> Ralph, you wanted to warn TomB of muting

ralph: does wg need to make a recommendation at all re what uris to use for naming
... unless we disagree with tag
... concern about trailing slash and trailing hash ...
... tag says yes, either is fine given the right response code
... so why legislate any more about identifiers?
... can point out reasons for doing it one way or another
... take davidbooths point that wg as a whole as to what each tf is discussing
... may need some coordination, but at this stage don't legislate

davidw: concern about not addressing it in some doc, because TAG didn't address in some document
... we don't have a canonical reference to point to
... needs to be clear to community what we're going to do about this
... vm porting wordnet rdftm tfs impacted by this decision

<Ralph> [Ah, I understand DavidW's point -- that _some_ recommendation is needed. We should recommend a Best Practice for using 303 See Other]

<Zakim> dbooth, you wanted to follow up

davidw: we can review per tf publications prior to publication

dbooth: worthwile to indicate pros & cons in a doc
... person feeling is, tag resolution not entirely satisfactory
... doesn't apply equally well to RDF and non-RDF case
... so you're dependent on what document type you're dealing with

<Zakim> aliman_scribe, you wanted to comment on uris & naming

<Ralph> Alistair: we should include in per-TF documentation as our role is to explain TAG resolution

phil: what are we commenting on?
... tag should come up with mechanism for resolving this issue, rahter than just saying hash or slash.

ralph: this WG should write up, either endorse the use of 303 see also, or to disagree with TAG
... and to explain how this isused in case of semweb

phil: is it best practise to bind this mechanism to the concept of resource id
... singular mechanism for ???
... are there other circumstances that should be investigated?
... or are we happy with singular soultion?

<Zakim> dbooth, you wanted to disagree with us not legislating more than the TAG. Our purpose is to provide Best Practices guidelines.

dbooth: uncomfortable with not legislating more than what TAG said
... entirely appropriate to give more guidance than TAG

guus: up to level not inconsistent with TAG

ralph: meant to focus on use of particular URI syntax
... no reason for this wg to partition uri space
... right we do need to explain how to apply tag view to specific semweb case

phil: identified problem of good or bad uris?
... feel that context is important.

ralph: phil's comments making this a wider problem, lets focus on smaller first
... propose specific action, this wg should draft some sort of message as part of a note,
... says 'here's how we interpret tag's solution, here's how we intepret it for semweb'
... would like to see draft of such a doc, propose one of our tfs do it
... perhaps VM?

guus: short note, couple of pages?

ralph: not formal note just yet, but we should have some formal on the record statement
... happy to leave it to some tf
... tomb?

tom: who would do that? don't want to volunteer someone.

What about danbri?

ralph: maybe between danbri and me?

davidw: 3 week special tf just to do this?

guus: propose ralph, davidb, davidw to take on an action

tom: willing to participate

davidw: should get short message from each of impacted tf leads, regarding what their issue was?

ralph: tfs don't care too much about what the solution was, although there were deployment issues

guus: propose two davids and ralph take on the action, take on feedback from others

ralph: accept

david & david: me too

<scribe> ACTION: ralph davidw and davidb to an initial draft of TAG httpRange-14 resolution impact on semweb application developers [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/06/27-swbp-minutes.html#action02]

3.2 OEP

OEP

chrisW: natasha alan and i had a telecon, resolved all issues for n-ary relations note and part-whole note, n-ary relations gone to review
... need another reviewer (ralph is one)
... simpe part-whole note, we have concrete actions, ready in 1 week
... spoke to jerry hobbs re owl time

<Ralph> ACTION: Ralph review new n-ary relations editor's draft [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/06/27-swbp-minutes.html#action03]

chrisW: almost ready

guus: need second reviewer for n-ary relations
... timescale?

chris: asap

guus: agree to review

<Ralph> ACTION: Guus review new n-ary relations editor's draft [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/06/27-swbp-minutes.html#action04]

guus: any use of owl restrictions note i wrote?

chris: haven't looked at it yet

guus: difference between rdfs range and owl restrictions

elisa: let's look into it

2.2 XML Schema Component Descriptors

davidw: continue

<Ralph> XSCD status from SemWeb CG telecon

ralph: it was brought up at the cg,
... last call still open, not a high priority
... we still have time to comment

<Ralph> [[

<Ralph> Ralph: SWBP wants to know the status of XML Schema Component Designators

<Ralph> Liam: unsure, as the WG is busy with XML Schema 1.1

<Ralph> ... URIs for datatypes is likely to be a separate document rather than added to SCD

<Ralph> ... has SWBPD communicated its issue to XML Schema WG?

<Ralph> ... if so, feel free to ping them if you haven't had a response

<Ralph> ]]

ralph: jeremy & jeff concerned that our comments on uris for datatypes had not been heard or fully made
... liam said feel free to ask again
... but not a pressing matter, so still open for comments
... tag also talked about schema component designators

guus: leave liason issue on the agenda

ACTION DavidW ask about the XML Schema Component

<scribe> DONE

2.2 OMG: ODM review

elisa: made some additions after feedback from hp
... re addition of RDF graph and document model to RDF metamodel
... OMG decided to include changes, fo next revision
... everyone is agreed
... planning to submit one additional revision
... send out asap
... . some questions about business rules .
... agreed to ground logic in common logic
... work with pat hayes to make that happen, business rules community aligning around common logic with some extesinos possibly
... so no competition between ODM and business rules
... Terry halpin

<ekw> Terry Halpin

guus: will also comment on ODM

<scribe> ACTION: guus to comment on ODM [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/06/27-swbp-minutes.html#action05]

<Ralph> Elisa: Terry Halpin is working with Pat Hayes to ground Business Rules in Common Logic

PORT

<Ralph> Alistair: next SKOS review is scheduled for 17 July

<Ralph> ... would like two reviewers selected at the next WG telecon

<Ralph> ... w.r.t. httpRange-14 resolution, I tried to draft some text that could be included in SKOS Core Guide

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Jun/0074.html

<Ralph> ... says what you can/may do if you want to use http: URIs to name resources of type SKOS:Concept

<Ralph> ... would like comments on the text in 0074.html

<Ralph> ... DanBri only concerned about the role of SPARQL

<Ralph> ... people working on US Government standards brought up an issue that they are only permitted to use W3C Recommendations in their work

<Ralph> ... thus possible reason to put SKOS Core on Recommendation track

<Ralph> ... have had multiple requests for another SKOS syntax

<Ralph> Ralph: are any of these requests archived somewhere?

<Ralph> Alistair: no, in private mail. requests for an XSD-constrained syntax

<DeborahM> hi - i joined late but am on the phone and irc - deborah mcguinness

<Ralph> Alistair: Phil suggested that an XML Schema-constrained syntax for SKOS would not be a good idea

<Ralph> Ralph: please ask for use cases accompanying any feature request, such as for a new syntax

<Ralph> Phil: I've talked with Alistair off-line about this, will probably put the discussion into the mail archive soon

3.3 WordNet

guus: met with aldo in greece to move forward the data model
... hope to see some action soon

<Ralph> ACTION: Aldo to propose an update the Wordnet TF description [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/06/27-swbp-minutes.html#action06]

guus: asked brian to review, hope he will

<scribe> ... no progress yet, suggest to postpone

ACTION Aldo to propose an update the Wordnet TF description

CONTINUE

3.5 Vocabulary management

<Ralph> Report of 2005-06-21 VM telecon

<Ralph> Alistair: we decided to retire DanBri's note "Some Things that Hashless URIs can Name"

<Ralph> ... and include in our basic principles note an explanation of how to implement the TAG's solution

<Ralph> ... we also took another action to contact people whose namespaces end in '/' to make sure they do redirects in the future

<Ralph> ... Tom has the ball to do the next round of editing

3.6 RDF-in-HTML

guus: textual version of jeremy's presentation at ... would be great basis for a note

<Ralph> Meeting record: 2005-06-21 RDF-in-XHTML TF telecon

guus: having jeremy's content as a note would be excellent

<Ralph> ACTION: Ralph suggest to XHTML TF that Jeremy's WWW2005 Talk be turned into a document [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/06/27-swbp-minutes.html#action07]

3.10 SE TF

Phil: jeff and I meeting wednesayt to talk about updating tf description
... and discuss next note.

guus: reviewers are chris, benjamin

<scribe> ACTION: chris and benjamin to review SETF note [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/06/27-swbp-minutes.html#action08]

4, AOB

ralph: discussion about f2f in galway based on andreas suggesting derry might be willing to host it
... need to confirm that, for the dates we selected

guus: already talked about both options with andreas
... should not be a problem

<scribe> ACTION: guus to contact andreas re f2f venue [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/06/27-swbp-minutes.html#action09]

guus: next telecon july 11 1700 UTC

<Ralph> Host Guidelines for W3C Face to Face Meetings

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Aldo to propose an update the Wordnet TF description [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/06/27-swbp-minutes.html#action06]
[NEW] ACTION: chris and benjamin to review SETF note [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/06/27-swbp-minutes.html#action08]
[NEW] ACTION: Guus review new n-ary relations editor's draft [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/06/27-swbp-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: guus to comment on ODM [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/06/27-swbp-minutes.html#action05]
[NEW] ACTION: guus to contact andreas re f2f venue [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/06/27-swbp-minutes.html#action09]
[NEW] ACTION: ralph davidw and davidb to an initial draft of TAG httpRange-14 resolution impact on semweb application developers [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/06/27-swbp-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: Ralph review new n-ary relations editor's draft [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/06/27-swbp-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: Ralph suggest to XHTML TF that Jeremy's WWW2005 Talk be turned into a document [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/06/27-swbp-minutes.html#action07]

[DONE] ACTION: Ralph post telecon date resolution to the list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/06/27-swbp-minutes.html#action01]

[End of minutes]

Change Log:

$Log: 27-swbp-minutes.html,v $
Revision 1.3  2005/07/14 13:34:23  swick
Remove extraneous characters in 4 otherwise blank lines.

Revision 1.2  2005/07/14 13:31:32  swick
Undo 'draft'iness; add Benjamin Nguyen to (irc) attendees per his
request.  These minutes were accepted at the 11-Jul WG telecon.
http://www.w3.org/2005/07/11-swbp-minutes#item01


Minutes pre-formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.126 (CVS log)
$Date: 2005/07/14 13:34:23 $