W3C

Results of Questionnaire WCAG2ICT-Review of Update to 2.4.8 Target Size and draft of 3.3.8 Accessible Authentication

The results of this questionnaire are available to anybody. In addition, answers are sent to the following email address: maryjom@us.ibm.com

This questionnaire was open from 2024-01-15 to 2024-01-31.

5 answers have been received.

Jump to results for question:

  1. Review proposed new note for Applying SC 2.5.8 Target Size (Minimum) to Non-web Documents and Software
  2. Proposed 2.5.8 Target Size (Minimum) content for SC problematic for Closed Functionality
  3. Question 1 of 5: Review main part of Applying SC 3.3.8 Accessible Authentication (Minimum)
  4. Question 2 of 5: Review Note 3 of SC 3.3.8 Accessible Authentication
  5. Question 3 of 5: Review Note 4 of SC 3.3.8 Accessible Authentication
  6. Question 4 of 5: Review Note 5 of SC 3.3.8 Accessible Authentication
  7. Question 5 of 5: Does 3.3.8 Accessible Authentication need content in SC problematic for closed functionality

1. Review proposed new note for Applying SC 2.5.8 Target Size (Minimum) to Non-web Documents and Software

The first two questions in this survey are regarding SC 2.5.8 Target Size (Minimum)

Review the draft proposal for updating the SC 2.5.8 Target Size (Minimum) notes. You can see it in-context in the PR draft in the section Applying SC 2.5.8 Target Size (Minimum) to Non-Web Documents and Software. Note 3 is the only new content being proposed.

CAUTION: This is not opening the rest of the previously agreed upon guidance to further editing unless there is some glaring error.


Proposed new note:

Note 3: In technologies where CSS is not used, the definition of 'CSS pixel' applies as described in Applying “CSS pixel” to Non-Web Documents and Software.


Indicate whether this proposal is ready to incorporate into the editor's draft and note any desired changes.

Summary

ChoiceAll responders
Results
The proposed note is ready to incorporate into the editor's draft, as-is. 5
The proposed note is ready to incorporate into the editor's draft, with the following changes.
The proposal isn't ready yet.

Details

Responder Review proposed new note for Applying SC 2.5.8 Target Size (Minimum) to Non-web Documents and Software Comments
Sam Ogami The proposed note is ready to incorporate into the editor's draft, as-is.
Devanshu Chandra The proposed note is ready to incorporate into the editor's draft, as-is.
Fernanda Bonnin The proposed note is ready to incorporate into the editor's draft, as-is.
Bruce Bailey The proposed note is ready to incorporate into the editor's draft, as-is.
Mitchell Evan The proposed note is ready to incorporate into the editor's draft, as-is.

2. Proposed 2.5.8 Target Size (Minimum) content for SC problematic for Closed Functionality

Review the updated proposal for adding a bullet for 2.5.8 Target Size (Minimum) to the SC Problematic for Closed Functionality Section below. Indicate its readiness to include in the editor's draft. If you wish to read it in the context of the section, see Success Criteria Problematic for Closed Functionality.


Proposed content

2.5.8 Target Size (Minimum)—This Success Criterion uses CSS pixels for defining the target size. Closed functionality may not use CSS pixels as a standard measurement, but the definition of 'CSS pixel' still applies as described in Applying “CSS pixel” to Non-Web Documents and Software. If the system supports a density-independent pixel measurement, it should be used in place of CSS pixels.


NOTE 1: If the viewing distance or pixel density of the system is unknown, approximating the reference pixel as described in Applying “CSS pixel” to Non-Web Documents and Software is not possible."


NOTE 2: For software designed to run on specific known hardware, a physical size standard would be more straightforward to apply, as calculations for CSS pixels is dependent on the viewing distance and pixel density of the display."

Summary

ChoiceAll responders
Results
Incorporate the proposed bullet, as-is. 3
Incorporate the proposed bullet, with the following changes. 2
Something else.

Details

Responder Proposed 2.5.8 Target Size (Minimum) content for SC problematic for Closed FunctionalityComments
Sam Ogami Incorporate the proposed bullet, as-is.
Devanshu Chandra Incorporate the proposed bullet, as-is.
Fernanda Bonnin Incorporate the proposed bullet, with the following changes. In what cases would the viewing distance of the system be unknown? do we need to provide examples?
Bruce Bailey Incorporate the proposed bullet, as-is.
Mitchell Evan Incorporate the proposed bullet, with the following changes. Fernanda asked: "In what cases would the viewing distance of the system be unknown?" I don't know exactly, but I believe Sam said he's talked to engineers for closed systems who have convinced him this case is needed. In one of our calls, I came to understand and agree: *if* these things are unknown then the calculation won't work, that's logical.

Small but substantive edits, because we offer a choice of two calculations to get a CSS pixel, and each calculation only needs one of those values...
NOTE 1: If the viewing distance *and* pixel density *are* unknown...
NOTE 2: ... dependent on the viewing distance *or* pixel density of the display

Typos:
Note 1 should not end with a quotation mark.
Note 2: calculations for CSS pixels *are*

3. Question 1 of 5: Review main part of Applying SC 3.3.8 Accessible Authentication (Minimum)

Review the updated proposal for 3.3.8 Accessible Authentication (Minimum) and indicate the readiness to incorporate the proposal into the editor's draft. This will be split into 5 questions, all regarding this proposal.

Background on the changes in this proposal: These changes were due to survey feedback for questions 1 and 2 , and our meeting discussion of survey results on 16 November and survey results for closed functionality question on 30 November.

Suggest edits or changes in the Google doc for 3.3.8

For this question, indicate whether the content from the beginning of the "Applying SC 3.3.8..." up to the notes (not including them) is ready to incorporate into the editor's draft.

Summary

ChoiceAll responders
Results
The 3.3.8 proposed content (up to the notes) is ready to incorporate into the editor's draft, as-is. 5
The 3.3.8 proposed content (up to the notes) is ready to incorporate into the editor's draft, with the changes proposed in the Google doc.
This proposal isn't ready yet. Provide your alternate proposal in the Google doc.

Details

Responder Question 1 of 5: Review main part of Applying SC 3.3.8 Accessible Authentication (Minimum)Comments
Sam Ogami The 3.3.8 proposed content (up to the notes) is ready to incorporate into the editor's draft, as-is.
Devanshu Chandra The 3.3.8 proposed content (up to the notes) is ready to incorporate into the editor's draft, as-is.
Fernanda Bonnin The 3.3.8 proposed content (up to the notes) is ready to incorporate into the editor's draft, as-is.
Bruce Bailey The 3.3.8 proposed content (up to the notes) is ready to incorporate into the editor's draft, as-is.
Mitchell Evan The 3.3.8 proposed content (up to the notes) is ready to incorporate into the editor's draft, as-is.

4. Question 2 of 5: Review Note 3 of SC 3.3.8 Accessible Authentication

This question is about Note 3 in the proposal for 3.3.8 Accessible Authentication (Minimum). This did not change from the previous proposal as the group didn't come to a conclusion in the previous discussion. Indicate the readiness to incorporate Note 3 into the editor's draft.

Suggest edits or changes in the Google doc for 3.3.8.

Summary

ChoiceAll responders
Results
Note 3 is ready to incorporate into the editor's draft, as-is. 3
Note 3 is ready to incorporate into the editor's draft, with the changes proposed in the Google doc. 1
This proposal isn't ready yet. Provide your alternate proposal in the Google doc. 1

Details

Responder Question 2 of 5: Review Note 3 of SC 3.3.8 Accessible AuthenticationComments
Sam Ogami Note 3 is ready to incorporate into the editor's draft, as-is.
Devanshu Chandra Note 3 is ready to incorporate into the editor's draft, as-is.
Fernanda Bonnin Note 3 is ready to incorporate into the editor's draft, as-is.
Bruce Bailey This proposal isn't ready yet. Provide your alternate proposal in the Google doc. I suggest we drop note 3. A reference to "device" is a reference to hardware, and we don't want to encourage using WCAG for evaluating hardware.
Mitchell Evan Note 3 is ready to incorporate into the editor's draft, with the changes proposed in the Google doc. See my "Option 2" for Note 3 in the Google doc.

5. Question 3 of 5: Review Note 4 of SC 3.3.8 Accessible Authentication

This question is about Note 4 in the proposal for 3.3.8 Accessible Authentication (Minimum). This is a newly proposed note. Indicate the readiness to incorporate Note 4 into the editor's draft.

Suggest edits or changes in the Google doc for 3.3.8.

Summary

ChoiceAll responders
Results
Note 4 is ready to incorporate into the editor's draft, as-is. 2
Note 4 is ready to incorporate into the editor's draft, with the changes proposed in the Google doc.
This proposal isn't ready yet. Provide your alternate proposal in the Google doc. 3

Details

Responder Question 3 of 5: Review Note 4 of SC 3.3.8 Accessible AuthenticationComments
Sam Ogami Note 4 is ready to incorporate into the editor's draft, as-is.
Devanshu Chandra Note 4 is ready to incorporate into the editor's draft, as-is.
Fernanda Bonnin This proposal isn't ready yet. Provide your alternate proposal in the Google doc. If shared use systems are out of scope, why aren't those same shared systems out of scope for the WCAG S.C. as well? e.g. accessing your email (or any other website that is password protected) in a shared computer in a public library would have similar challenges as the user would not have access to applications that allow them to auto-complete content.

Bruce Bailey This proposal isn't ready yet. Provide your alternate proposal in the Google doc. Per comment, Note 4 Option 2 -- including moving the note to Closed Functionality.
Mitchell Evan This proposal isn't ready yet. Provide your alternate proposal in the Google doc. See my "Option 2" for Note 4 in the Google doc. I propose rewriting the note and moving it to Problematic for Closed Functionality.

Fernanda asked: "If shared use systems are out of scope, why aren't those same shared systems out of scope for the WCAG S.C. as well?" Good point. I believe shared use systems like a library computer are very problematic for WCAG (web) when a user can load any website they want, but they can't use their password mechanism -- but that's not a problem for WCAG2ICT to solve. Shared use systems are somewhat less problematic for web applications and software that the library provides and controls on the computer, because the library is more likely to be responsible for (or federated with) the storage of the user's credentials, and thus could provide an alternative authentication method as I mentioned in "Option 2".

6. Question 4 of 5: Review Note 5 of SC 3.3.8 Accessible Authentication

This question is about Note 5 in the proposal for 3.3.8 Accessible Authentication (Minimum). This is a newly proposed note. Indicate the readiness to incorporate Note 5 into the editor's draft.

Suggest edits or changes in the Google doc for 3.3.8.

Summary

ChoiceAll responders
Results
Note 5 is ready to incorporate into the editor's draft, as-is. 2
Note 5 is ready to incorporate into the editor's draft, with the changes proposed in the Google doc. 3
This proposal isn't ready yet. Provide your alternate proposal in the Google doc.

Details

Responder Question 4 of 5: Review Note 5 of SC 3.3.8 Accessible AuthenticationComments
Sam Ogami Note 5 is ready to incorporate into the editor's draft, as-is.
Devanshu Chandra Note 5 is ready to incorporate into the editor's draft, as-is.
Fernanda Bonnin Note 5 is ready to incorporate into the editor's draft, with the changes proposed in the Google doc. There were some interesting comments from Mike, Mitchell and Loïc on (https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/WCAG2ICTauthentication/results#xq2) around calling ATM pins as out of scope because there is no good alternative, versus just highlighting there is an issue for this scenario.
Also relevant to note, I believe this is the first S.C where we are explicitly calling things out of scope with Notes 3,4, and 5. (apart from hardware requirements for contrast)
Bruce Bailey Note 5 is ready to incorporate into the editor's draft, with the changes proposed in the Google doc. See Option 2
Mitchell Evan Note 5 is ready to incorporate into the editor's draft, with the changes proposed in the Google doc. See my "Option 2" for Note 5 in the Google doc. I think it should be in both general and Closed, but if nobody wants it in general I'm fine with only putting it in Closed.

7. Question 5 of 5: Does 3.3.8 Accessible Authentication need content in SC problematic for closed functionality

The proposal didn't specify whether a note was needed in the SC problematic for closed functionality section, but our previous survey on this SC indicated one was needed. We may be able to use content verbatim or summarized in that section. Indicate your preferred solution.

Use the Google doc for 3.3.8 to provide any proposed content for that section. There is a section title placeholder in the Google doc where you can add your suggested text.

Summary

ChoiceAll responders
Results
No bullet needed in the SC problematic for closed functionality section. 3
Copy bullet(s) verbatim into the SC problematic for closed functionality section. Indicate which one(s) in the comment. 1
Summarize bullet(s) in the SC problematic for closed functionality section. Indicate which one(s) in the comment. Provide suggested text in the Google doc.

(1 response didn't contain an answer to this question)

Details

Responder Question 5 of 5: Does 3.3.8 Accessible Authentication need content in SC problematic for closed functionality Comments
Sam Ogami Copy bullet(s) verbatim into the SC problematic for closed functionality section. Indicate which one(s) in the comment. Notes 4 - 5.. If the notes are moved to the SC problematic for closed functionality section the the SC should have an note "See also the discussion on Closed Functionality."
Devanshu Chandra No bullet needed in the SC problematic for closed functionality section.
Fernanda Bonnin No bullet needed in the SC problematic for closed functionality section.
Bruce Bailey No bullet needed in the SC problematic for closed functionality section.
Mitchell Evan See my "Option 2" for Note 4 in the Google Doc, which should be moved to Closed. See my "Option 2" for Note 5 in the Google doc, which should be copied (or maybe moved) to Closed.

More details on responses

  • Sam Ogami: last responded on 23, January 2024 at 22:37 (UTC)
  • Devanshu Chandra: last responded on 24, January 2024 at 20:33 (UTC)
  • Fernanda Bonnin: last responded on 25, January 2024 at 00:00 (UTC)
  • Bruce Bailey: last responded on 31, January 2024 at 21:36 (UTC)
  • Mitchell Evan: last responded on 31, January 2024 at 21:55 (UTC)

Non-responders

The following persons have not answered the questionnaire:

  1. Gregg Vanderheiden
  2. Shadi Abou-Zahra
  3. Mary Jo Mueller
  4. Loïc Martínez Normand
  5. Mike Pluke
  6. Chris Loiselle
  7. Charles Adams
  8. Daniel Montalvo
  9. Shawn Thompson
  10. Olivia Hogan-Stark
  11. Laura Miller
  12. Anastasia Lanz
  13. Bryan Trogdon
  14. Thorsten Katzmann
  15. Tony Holland
  16. Kent Boucher

Send an email to all the non-responders.


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