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The results of this questionnaire are available to anybody. In addition, answers are sent to the following email address: maryjom@us.ibm.com
This questionnaire was open from 2023-06-13 to 2023-06-21.
6 answers have been received.
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Indicate if your prefer one of the notes. In the input field, indicate whether further edits are needed and make suggestions for changes. Repeating Note 1 from both proposals here:
Proposal 1:
Note 1: Non-web software and its accompanying platform software do not use measurements of CSS pixels. Therefore, a visual-angle pixel measurement should be used which approximates the CSS Values and Units Module Level 3 reference pixel.
Note 2: Where available, a platform-defined visual-angle pixel should be used.
Proposal 2:
Note 1: Non-web software and their accompanying platform software do not use measurements of CSS pixels. Therefore, platform-specific pixel density-independent measurements should be used. Examples include: pt in iOS and MacOS, density-independent pixels (DP) for Android, and device-independent pixels for Windows.
Choice | All responders |
---|---|
Results | |
Prefer proposal 1, as-is. | |
Prefer proposal 2, as-is. | 1 |
Prefer proposal 1, with changes. | 2 |
Prefer proposal 2, with changes. | 3 |
Something else. Please suggest alternative content. |
Responder | Review and comparison of Note 1 & 2 in proposal 1 with Note 1 in proposal 2 | Comments |
---|---|---|
Loïc Martínez Normand | Prefer proposal 2, with changes. | In modern Microsoft development (XAML-based) the device-independent pixel is called "effective pixel" (https://learn.microsoft.com/es-es/windows/apps/design/layout/screen-sizes-and-breakpoints-for-responsive-design) Note 1 should read (at the end): .... and effective pixels for Windows |
Bruce Bailey | Prefer proposal 1, with changes. | I prefer Proposal 1 -- but without bolding "visual-angle pixel" and I would not care to see that as a defined term. |
Mitchell Evan | Prefer proposal 1, with changes. | Proposal 1 changes: - From our 2023-06-01 call, I came to see that my introduction the term 'visual-angle pixel' is not necessary. I'd like to change it to "density-independent pixel" here and in all the notes. - MacOS should have a lowercase m: macOS. - Change 'px' to 'points (pt)', spelled out as in https://developer.apple.com/design/human-interface-guidelines/images . - Android 'DP' should be lowercase 'dp' - For Windows: To keep the examples concise, I agree with Loïc's change to 'effective pixels'. (For the record, win32 apps are also still relevant.) https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/apps/get-started/?tabs=net-maui%2Ccpp-win32#other-app-types https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/learnwin32/dpi-and-device-independent-pixels |
Chris Loiselle | Prefer proposal 2, as-is. | |
Fernanda Bonnin | Prefer proposal 2, with changes. | Prefer proposal 2. For either proposal 1 or 2, same editorial comments as Mitchell on the terms names (with "effective pixels" for Windows) |
Olivia Hogan-Stark | Prefer proposal 2, with changes. | Some editorial changes: Note 1: Non-web software and its corresponding platform software do not adhere to CSS pixel measurements. Therefore, platform-specific pixel density-independent measurements should be used. Some examples of such measurements include points (pt) for iOS and macOS, density-independent pixels (dp) for Android, and effective pixels for Windows. |
Indicate if your prefer one of the proposals. In the input field, indicate whether further edits are needed and make suggestions for changes.
Proposal 1:
Note 3: Examples where a visual-angle pixel may not be defined in the platform:
Note 4: Where a platform-defined visual-angle pixel is not available, the following calculation is consistent with the reference pixel:
Note 5: The number 2688 is the ratio of viewing distance to length of the reference pixel (nominal arm’s length of 28 inches divided by 1/96 inch). When a device renders a visual-angle pixel with a length of L, it signifies that a viewing distance for the device is L times 2688.
Proposal 2:
Note 2: Non-web software that either doesn't have the concept of device or density independent pixels or measurements by pixels, should use the formula contained in the definition of a reference pixel to calculate the arc-length of the viewing angle using the optimal viewing distance from the screen to calculate the reference pixel size.
Examples where device-independent pixels may not be defined in the platform include:
When there is no platform-defined device/density independent pixel measurement, the reference pixel size can be approximated in the following manner:
Choice | All responders |
---|---|
Results | |
Prefer Proposal 1, as-is. | |
Prefer Proposal 2, as-is. | 3 |
Prefer Proposal 1, with changes. | |
Prefer Proposal 2, with changes. | 2 |
Something else. Please suggest alternative content. | 1 |
Responder | Review and comparison of Notes 3-5 in proposal 1 with Note 2 in proposal 2 | Comments |
---|---|---|
Loïc Martínez Normand | Prefer Proposal 2, as-is. | |
Bruce Bailey | Prefer Proposal 2, as-is. | Proposal 1 is also very good. |
Mitchell Evan | Something else. Please suggest alternative content. | Combine the two proposals as follows, with slight edits for consistent terminology. (From proposal 1, for its specificity): Note 3: Examples where a density-independent pixel may not be defined in the platform: - Software that runs on specific hardware, such as kiosks or office equipment, where the author may know the physical screen size and pixel density. - Software, such as streaming apps on smart TV platforms, where the author does not know the physical screen size but may know an appropriate viewing distance or viewing angle. (From proposal 2, for its clarity): When there is no platform-defined density-independent pixel measurement, the reference pixel size can be approximated in the following manner: - Choose a viewing distance: The value for the viewing distance should be logical for the use case and type of display. As an example, a touchscreen would need to have a viewing distance less than an arm’s length - 28 inches (71 cm). - Calculate the length of the reference pixel: Take the viewing distance (v) and divide it by 2688. (Then omit Note 5 from proposal 1. By saying it's "approximated" and linking to CSS3 there's no need to explain the math again here.) |
Chris Loiselle | Prefer Proposal 2, as-is. | |
Fernanda Bonnin | Prefer Proposal 2, with changes. | would be good to have a link or more explanation in proposal 2 as to where the number 2688 comes from. Any concerns on the potential discrepancies that could come up with the fact that each author will need to choose a viewing distance in non-web software that doesn't have a device independent pixel? |
Olivia Hogan-Stark | Prefer Proposal 2, with changes. | Some editorial changes: Note 2: Non-web software that lacks the concept of device or density-independent pixels or measurements by pixel should employ the formula provided in the definition of a reference pixel. This formula calculates the arc-length of the viewing angle using the optimal viewing distance from the screen to determine the reference pixel size. Examples where device-independent pixels may not be defined in the platform include: - Software designed for specific hardware, such as kiosks or office equipment, where the author knows the physical screen size and potentially the pixel density. - TV streaming apps or similar software where the author may lack information about the physical screen size or viewing distance, but may have insights into the intended usage. When there is no platform-defined device/density independent pixel measurement, the reference pixel size can be approximated in the following manner: - Determine a viewing distance: The chosen viewing distance should align with the use case and display type. For instance, in the case of a touchscreen, the viewing distance should be less than the length of an arm, typically around 28 inches (71 cm). - Calculate the length of the reference pixel: Divide the viewing distance (v) by 2688. |
Review proposed note 6 (included below), and answer the question. In the input field, indicate whether further edits are needed and make suggestions for changes.
Note 6: Most software and devices are usable at more than one viewing distance. However, for a visual-angle pixel to be considered an approximation for the reference pixel, the viewing distance of the visual-angle pixel must be plausible (ed.: or perhaps “logical”?). For example, in software designed for use with a touchscreen, a visual-angle pixel longer than 0.11 inch (0.28 mm) would not be plausible, because this would signify a viewing distance of more than arm’s length.
Choice | All responders |
---|---|
Results | |
Add Note 6, as-is. | 2 |
Add note 6, with changes. | 2 |
Do not add note 6 (give reasons). | 2 |
Would like an alternate note (provide suggested content) |
Responder | Review the proposal for Note 6 | Comments |
---|---|---|
Loïc Martínez Normand | Add Note 6, as-is. | |
Bruce Bailey | Add Note 6, as-is. | I do not like "logical" better than "plausible". Other words to consider: reasonable, realistic, feasible, practical |
Mitchell Evan | Do not add note 6 (give reasons). | Omit note 6, provided that "logical" (or similar) is mentioned and briefly explained in the prior note. |
Chris Loiselle | Add note 6, with changes. | I'd recommend we wordsmith plausible (ed.: or perhaps “logical”?) OUT of the note prior to voting on the proposal, but won't stand in way of proposal. |
Fernanda Bonnin | Do not add note 6 (give reasons). | two concerns: 1)It is not clear that any of the examples in Note 1 take into consideration a visual angle. 2) we are adding the burden for each author to invididually determine if the visual angle pixel for their platform is logical. If we want to add this note, I would suggest reviewing all known Device independent pixel measurements and defining whether they are logical as part of the note. |
Olivia Hogan-Stark | Add note 6, with changes. | realistic? appropriate? |
Review proposed note 7 (included below), and answer the question. In the input field, indicate whether further edits are needed and make suggestions for changes.
Note 7: People with low vision often use devices at less than the standard viewing distance. However, basing the visual-angle pixel on a midrange viewing distance provides a balance of benefits for users with disabilities. If a longer viewing distance were chosen as the basis for the visual-angle pixel, the viewport would be measured with a smaller number of larger pixels, causing Success Criterion 1.4.10 Reflow to be less stringent. If a shorter viewing distance were chosen, user interface components would be measured with a larger number of smaller pixels, causing the Target Size and Focus Appearance criteria to be less stringent.
Choice | All responders |
---|---|
Results | |
Add Note 7, as-is. | 4 |
Add note 7, with changes. | 2 |
Do not add note 7 (give reasons). | |
Would like an alternate note (provide suggested content) |
Responder | Review the proposal for Note 7 | Comments |
---|---|---|
Loïc Martínez Normand | Add Note 7, as-is. | |
Bruce Bailey | Add note 7, with changes. | Instead of "midrange" viewing distance suggest "typical" or "default". The word "midrange" seems (to me) to imply a new/different term/concept than what the manufacturer assumes for the standard viewing distance. Or that what we want? |
Mitchell Evan | Add Note 7, as-is. | I'm fine as-is or with Bruce's suggestion. If not "midrange", then "typical". |
Chris Loiselle | Add note 7, with changes. | |
Fernanda Bonnin | Add Note 7, as-is. | |
Olivia Hogan-Stark | Add Note 7, as-is. |
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