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The results of this questionnaire are available to anybody.
This questionnaire was open from 2020-08-27 to 2020-09-01.
16 answers have been received.
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The current draft of WCAG 3.0 is being prepared for the First Public Working Draft (FPWD).
This survey is to gather feedback from the working group and Silver task force to reach a point where we can agree to release this document as the FPWD.
There is still scope for addressing issues, but whilst entering comments please do consider whether:
Please indicate in your comments which category of issue it is for you. Any answer that indicates there are issues without saying what they are (in the comment) will be ignored.
Please note: We do not have questions on 'The Guidelines' or 'Glossary' yet. We will come back to those sections later.
Responder |
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Jeanne F Spellman |
Jonathan Avila |
Todd Libby |
Francis Storr |
Jake Abma |
Frederick Boland |
Bruce Bailey |
Sarah Horton |
Laura Carlson |
Shari Butler |
Janina Sajka |
Peter Korn |
Detlev Fischer |
Michael Gower |
David MacDonald |
Shawn Lauriat |
The introduction section of WCAG 3.0 is non-normative, and sets the scene for the document.
Please review and comment if there are things you think should be changed.
Choice | All responders |
---|---|
Results | |
This section can be published as it is now. | 9 |
This section has several areas that should be updated, or include edtiorial notes. | 4 |
This section has significant areas that must be updated before we publish the FPWD. | 1 |
(2 responses didn't contain an answer to this question)
Responder | Introduction | Comments |
---|---|---|
Jeanne F Spellman | This section can be published as it is now. | I like the inclusion of the Requirements. I like the Simplified Summary, although we may want to move the subsections of the Summary to each subsection. |
Jonathan Avila | ||
Todd Libby | This section can be published as it is now. | |
Francis Storr | This section can be published as it is now. | I like the level of detail on the increase in scope, the key requirements sections, and the focus on user experience of WCAG 3. |
Jake Abma | This section has several areas that should be updated, or include edtiorial notes. | 1. Extend as I read it is 'on top of... / extra' while WCAG3 will be a new replacement and should say so I think REPLACE: "These guidelines extend the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines 2.2." TO SOMETHING LIKE: "These guidelines will replace the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines 2" --------------------------------- 2. We should not forget about / mention the 'old' / existing technologies... and is it only 'new methods' or also 'new tests'? also here what about existing ones (techniques) REPLACE: "It presents new methods and tests for making content accessible using more recent technologies." TO SOMETHING LIKE: "It presents new methods and tests for making content accessible using existing and more recent technologies." --------------------------------- 3. While this is certainly true, we have always been focussing on an inequality is usage and should say so in the first place. REPLACE: "Who benefits from the guidelines? Following the guidelines will improve the experience of all who use the content, not only people with disabilities." TO SOMETHING LIKE: "Who benefits from the guidelines? While the guidelines focus specific on preventing barriers for people with disabilities, following the guidelines will improve the experience of all who use the content." --------------------------------- 4. I do not think 'current ' is a proper word to mention here, WCAG 2.2 is as current as WCAG 3 REPLACE: What did the Silver Task Force focus on? Our aim for these updated guidelines was to make them more current and usable. TO SOMETHING LIKE: What did the Silver Task Force focus on? Our aim for these updated guidelines was to make them usable for a broader audience. |
Frederick Boland | This section can be published as it is now. | |
Bruce Bailey | This section can be published as it is now. | Last sentence in paragraph before 1.1 Scope of WCAG 3.0 reads in part "...content that conforms to WCAG 2.2 A & AA". Should be either "...content that conforms at WCAG 2.2 Level AA" or "...content that conforms to all WCAG 2.2 A and AA success criteria" |
Sarah Horton | This section has several areas that should be updated, or include edtiorial notes. | Establish and clarify where to go to get help: The Accessibility Guidelines Working Group, the Working Group, the Silver Community Group, and the Silver Taskforce are all named and referenced (e.g., “the Working Group will provide transition support materials” and “Those who wish to use the new standard can get help from the Silver Community Group”). Editorial changes would make the section more readable and clear, but are not required for public review. |
Laura Carlson | This section has several areas that should be updated, or include edtiorial notes. | In "1. Introduction: under "How did the focus evolve?" Typo: space missing between "extendUser": "extendUser Agent Accessibility Guidelines 2.0" Typo: space missing between andAuthoring: andAuthoring Tool Accessibility Guidelines 2.0 |
Shari Butler | This section can be published as it is now. | |
Janina Sajka | This section can be published as it is now. | |
Peter Korn | This section has significant areas that must be updated before we publish the FPWD. | I'd understood that one of the key themes coming from Silver research (https://www.w3.org/TR/accessibility-conformance-challenges/#themes-from-research) was to review & revise conformance. This was also addressed in the Draft Final Report of Silver (https://www.w3.org/community/silver/draft-final-report-of-silver/) which said of the Conformance Model that we should among other things "Develop scorecard or rubric measures for testing task accomplishment, instead of technical page conformance"; that we should also "Include a definition and concept for “substantially meets” so people are not excessively penalized for bugs that may not have a large impact on the experience of people with disabilities"; and that we should "Develop a more flexible method of claiming conformance that is better suited to accommodate dynamic or more regularly updated content." These things aren't in this draft, and are key to include in FPWD (even if they aren't "met by this document" in it's FPWD, I'd expect that to be listed here, and then note that more revisions will come in a future public working draft). Section 1.1 contains the sentence "Creating WCAG 3.0's new conformance model included engaging policy makers in the creation process." I didn't see this important assertion substantiated elsewhere in the document (perhaps I missed it?). |
Detlev Fischer | This section has several areas that should be updated, or include edtiorial notes. | The statement that "These guidelines extend the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines 2.2" seems to conflict with a significantly different structure with new terminology. ..."across a variety of platforms" leaves open whether WCAG 3.0 it is still focused on web content (with something like WCAG2ICT mapping to other platforms) or is itself applicable beyond web (native apps, for example). The sentence "Those who wish to use the new standard can get help from the Silver Community Group" seems a bit out of place in the introduction to a standard. "Improving usability – especially for people starting out in accessible design" can easily be misunderstood to mean that WCAG now covers usability as well. "Designing the standard to be more durable" - shouldn't that be "more flexible", "esier to update" or similar? List under "Scope of WCAG 3.0" seems to partly repeat stuff under "What did the Silver Task Force focus on?" |
Michael Gower | This section can be published as it is now. | I'd recommend "photosensitivity" be broadened/generalized to something like 'sensory disorders' You may want to make "Technology Neutral" into "Technology neutrality" to match the usage of other bulllets under 1.3. |
David MacDonald | ||
Shawn Lauriat | This section can be published as it is now. | …with "as it is now" to mean with the editorial changes discussed during AG WG's September 1 call. |
The Structure of these guidelines section of WCAG 3.0 is non-normative, and describes the structure of the document.
Please review and comment if there are things you think should be changed.
Choice | All responders |
---|---|
Results | |
This section can be published as it is now. | 9 |
This section has several areas that should be updated, or include edtiorial notes. | 3 |
This section has significant areas that must be updated before we publish the FPWD. | 1 |
(3 responses didn't contain an answer to this question)
Responder | Structure of these guidelines | Comments |
---|---|---|
Jeanne F Spellman | This section can be published as it is now. | The process of writing this section has clarified a lot of the architecture. I think this section is useful to communicate that 1) it is different from WCAG 2.x and 2) that the guidance is derived from user needs. |
Jonathan Avila | This section has several areas that should be updated, or include edtiorial notes. | I like the structure and the use of sufficient and failure techniques through methods. One question arose though with the wording "functional outcomes". If the functional outcomes are determine based on testing methods and then score based on functional categories but without actual user testing - there could be a concern from a legal perspective that functional outcome of a pass could mean all users can access the site -- when in fact nothing will ever be fully accessible to everyone. What happens in a court of law when a company says the functional outcomes pass but a user with a disability not covered by the outcomes claims an issue? Today WCAG doesn't make any claim of functional use - if such a term is used is that potentially problematic as it's a strong assertion of actual use rather than just measurement to a standard? In the US ADA cases all come down to functional use. I assume that is why the term was chosen - can we get a legal expert to weigh in on this? |
Todd Libby | This section has several areas that should be updated, or include edtiorial notes. | |
Francis Storr | This section can be published as it is now. | The level of detail explaining how WCAG 3 is different from 2 is very useful. |
Jake Abma | 1. 'that the designed digital context' is somehow a bit "existing / prescriptive "ish/like" while we do more of a heuristic analysis and 'how designed digital context' seems more appropriate. REPLACE: We studied ways that the designed digital context may create barriers for people. TO SOMETHING LIKE: We studied ways how designed digital context may create barriers for people. --------------------------------- 2. I do not get the example: "such as, people with limited vision want to use virtual reality" (I think "Functional needs: is a statement that describes a specific gap in one’s ability" is much more clear by the way!) REPLACE: Functional needs: the mismatch between the user and the designed context (such as, people with limited vision want to use virtual reality) TO SOMETHING LIKE: Functional needs: the mismatch between the user and the designed context (such as, ...???) --------------------------------- 3. Don't we need to use present tense in our documents? If so a sentence like the following should e changed: REPLACE: Functional outcomes: ...(such as, blind users understood which parts of Web content were headings) TO SOMETHING LIKE: Functional outcomes: ...(such as, blind users understand which parts of Web content are headings) --------------------------------- 4. 2.4 Functional Outcomes flow chart The chart shows that testing is ONLY done on Methods, while the test should be done on the normative functional outcome. I have multiple examples of why this is necessary but just a small example: you might have another Method for the Functional Outcome NOT present in WCAG but a fine one, Methods are not complete (yet) Or other possibilities. The test must be for Normative Functional Outcome AND BASED ON THE WAY THE USER EXPECTS THE CONTENT, and if a method is present than this will test exactly that BUT more granular of technology specific. I can explain this with a high level heading example test where the Methods will be different for different technologies (Like Web, Android, iOS etc.) Methods might also overlap each other to adhere to a functional outcome while the scoring and the test should not be affected / changed (HTML Heading Vs. ARIA Heading role) --------------------------------- 5. 2.9 Tests Also here, see point 4 above, the second part is a bit misleading as it should be possible to score the Functional Outcome without the Method as it is 'the higher layer' REPLACE: "Each Method includes information on how to score individual instances of the test, and how to score the Functional Outcome in an optional Conformance Claim." TO SOMETHING LIKE: "Each Method includes information on how to score individual instances of the test, and how to support and contribute the score of the Functional Outcome in an optional Conformance Claim." | |
Frederick Boland | ||
Bruce Bailey | This section can be published as it is now. | This line: "Functional categories: the range of disabilities – @@ from blindness to limited movement @@ " need work. The bit between @@ reads to me as if it is all-inclusive and that disability falls on a spectrum with blindness at one end and limited mobility at the other. I think maybe it should be a parenthetical with examples. I would rather have the bit after the em dash it deleted entirely than remain as-is. |
Sarah Horton | This section has significant areas that must be updated before we publish the FPWD. | Revise the section so that the subsections are the same as what is indicated in the list of “layers” (or update the list of layers to reflect the sections). Also, make sure each section has a description, and use consistent terminology (and capitalization, e.g. “Functional Outcome”, “Method”) throughout the document. Editorial changes would make the section more readable and clear, but are not required for public review. |
Laura Carlson | This section can be published as it is now. | |
Shari Butler | This section can be published as it is now. | |
Janina Sajka | This section can be published as it is now. | |
Peter Korn | This section can be published as it is now. | Is the graphic in section 2.4 Functional Outcomes appropriately described? The caption doesn't seem to capture the visual relationships conveyed in the image at "img/guidelines-structure.png" |
Detlev Fischer | This section has several areas that should be updated, or include edtiorial notes. | I find the overall structure not easy to understand right now. In some parts of the text, it appears that Guidelines are the main categories - they organise / group functional outcomes. The diagram has functional categories at the top. The description says " Functional Categories of disabilities reflect the diverse needs of users with disabilities." that is quite vague. It is unclear whether they map onto User Accessibility Needs (used, fior example in the EN 301 549) which are divided into disability categories. I have no idea what it means when I read "Functional Categories are used when reporting test results to reduce bias across different types of disabilities". Does it mean that they allow a filtering by type of disability? The sentence "Guidelines are high level plain language summaries that address Functional Needs on specific topics, such as contrast, forms, readability, and more" suggest that they are another orthogonal way of organising Functional outcomes by type of content. My hunch is that functional outcomes are finegrained, i.e. address the success of a user with a particular need (say non-visual use) in using a particular type of content (say, a form). it is therefore a bit confusing to read "overall Functional Outcome" is that a higher-order aggregation of different atomic functional outcomes, or are functional outcomes less atomic than I thought they were? So in all, from this text I am unclear what the overall architecture of WCAG 3.0 is going to look like. |
Michael Gower | This section can be published as it is now. | In 2.1 I think I'd put the examples in quotes: > Functional outcomes: the result (or outcome) of practices that reduce barriers and support ease of use in the designed context (such as, "blind users understood which parts of Web content were headings") Guidelines: plain language advice on topics for adapting content to meet users’ functional needs (such as, "design voice input for people with limited movement") As a general editorial comment, watch your agreement in places where subordinate clauses change the singular/plural but shouldn't affect the subject, as in: The highest level of organization, Functional Categories of disabilities, reflect..." should be "The highest level of organization, Functional Categories of disabilities, reflects..." I think it would be an idea to have an illustration that shows the structure (functional categories, needs, etc). |
David MacDonald | ||
Shawn Lauriat | This section can be published as it is now. | …with "as it is now" to mean with the editorial changes discussed during AG WG's September 1 call. |
The Normative requirements section of WCAG 3.0 is normative, a short section just defining which aspects are normative.
Please review and comment if there are things you think should be changed.
NB: We do not have a question on the 'guidelines' yet, we will come back to that section later.
Choice | All responders |
---|---|
Results | |
This section can be published as it is now. | 12 |
This section has several areas that should be updated, or include edtiorial notes. | |
This section has significant areas that must be updated before we publish the FPWD. |
(4 responses didn't contain an answer to this question)
Responder | Normative requirements | Comments |
---|---|---|
Jeanne F Spellman | This section can be published as it is now. | Different people have requested that we use RFC2119 key words. I think the use of them in the Conformance section is appropriate. |
Jonathan Avila | ||
Todd Libby | This section can be published as it is now. | |
Francis Storr | This section can be published as it is now. | |
Jake Abma | This section can be published as it is now. | |
Frederick Boland | ||
Bruce Bailey | This section can be published as it is now. | I do not like "non-normative". I would strongly prefer either: "This section is informative." or "This section is not normative." That this states "It [non-normative] is also called “Informative” acknowledges that term "non-normative" is not needed. |
Sarah Horton | This section can be published as it is now. | |
Laura Carlson | This section can be published as it is now. | I have had university students in my classes that the confuse the use of the term "non-normative" to mean "non-standard". It takes some explaining before they understand. If we are going for plain language in WCAG 3.0, we may want to consider replacing "non-normative" throughout the document with something such as "informative" or "informative advice" or "best practice". For that matter, perhaps consider replacing "normative" with simply "required" or "requirement". |
Shari Butler | This section can be published as it is now. | |
Janina Sajka | This section can be published as it is now. | |
Peter Korn | This section can be published as it is now. | I like Bruce's comment, but would take it one step further: "This section is informative (non-normative)." Let's try to keep the language of WCAG as understandable as possible. |
Detlev Fischer | This section can be published as it is now. | Still unclear though in what way the functional outcomes will be normative and testable. Is "functional outcome" another word for SC, now with finer granularity? If not, how are they different? |
Michael Gower | ||
David MacDonald | ||
Shawn Lauriat | This section can be published as it is now. | …with "as it is now" to mean with the editorial changes discussed during AG WG's September 1 call. |
The Evaluation section of WCAG 3.0 is normative, and includes the testing and scoring content.
NB: This section will be updated by the morning on the 28th, if you are looking at it on the 27th August it might change.
Please review and comment if there are things you think should be changed.
Choice | All responders |
---|---|
Results | |
This section can be published as it is now. | 8 |
This section has several areas that should be updated, or include edtiorial notes. | 1 |
This section has significant areas that must be updated before we publish the FPWD. | 2 |
(5 responses didn't contain an answer to this question)
Responder | Evaluation | Comments |
---|---|---|
Jeanne F Spellman | This section can be published as it is now. | While I still have questions about some of the details of the Evaluation section, I think it is vitally important to get broad public comment about Evaluation and Conformance. I like how the concepts we agreed to in the Deep Dive have developed. I like how the Requirements have been included in the solution. "The devil is in the details", but I think this is a flexible structure we can build on. I want to do more validation testing. In a future WD, we may be able to simplify more of this section based on our experience. This is a difficult problem that we are trying to solve. I think this is a viable solution to send out for broad public comment. |
Jonathan Avila | ||
Todd Libby | This section can be published as it is now. | |
Francis Storr | This section can be published as it is now. | The content is strong enough for publication, although there is a lot to still work on in this section. The editor's note should hopefully encourage the feedback we need to evolve the evaluation section. |
Jake Abma | This section has significant areas that must be updated before we publish the FPWD. | 1. Maybe I've missed some decisions during my vacation the last couple of weeks but I'm totally surprised that Bronze is WCAG A, AA and AAA like and Silver and Gold can only be reached with Holistic tests? To reach the same quality for Silver or Gold for your application it's not a fact you need the Holistic tests as mentioned. Also this is not feasible for lots of organizations AND the tests for functional outcomes may be more holistic while the tests for methods may be Technical / Traditional by nature. "WCAG 3.0 includes two types of tests: Traditional tests: Those are similar to the tests for A, AA, and AAA Success Criteria in WCAG 2.x. (These tests are used to reach a Bronze rating.) Holistic tests: User-centered design methods, assistive technology testing, user and expert usability testing. (These tests are used to reach a Silver or Gold rating.)" ------------------------------ 5.1 Testing "WCAG 3.0 tests and scores Functional Outcomes. Functional Outcomes are written as testable criteria that allow testers to objectively determine if the content they are evaluating satisfies the criteria." 1. Exaclty!!! Not Methods while they should / can be used... 2. The "to objectively determine" is a bit difficult as we mention before 'Holistic Tests' which are Subjective by nature: "Holistic tests: User-centered design methods, assistive technology testing, user and expert usability testing. (These tests are used to reach a Silver or Gold rating.) ----------------------------- 2. Testing is not per se done with automated testing, this is only an option / tool to use for testing and should say so. We often test without automated testing for Web but specifically technologies / apps like iOS, Android but also with VR this might the the way to go. REPLACE: Testing the Functional Outcomes using the traditional tests involves a combination of automated testing and human evaluation. TO SOMETHING LIKE: Testing the Functional Outcomes using the traditional tests might involve a combination of automated testing and human evaluation. UPDATE: in 5.1.1.1 I see the text: Traditional tests may be automated or manual (supporting my claim here) ----------------------------- 3. Sadly no time to go through the scoring in detail but we need prove that this works and have not seen such till now, all testing of the testing have shown we need lots of examples + data to see if it works this way. |
Frederick Boland | ||
Bruce Bailey | This section can be published as it is now. | |
Sarah Horton | This section has several areas that should be updated, or include edtiorial notes. | “View” is introduced in “How are tests scored?” section. The concept might be worth including an editors note to encourage feedback. “Traditional Tests” as a term isn’t clearly defined, except by referencing WCAG 2.x tests, which assumes familiarity with WCAG 2.x tests. A few examples would help, as is done in the Critical Errors section. Conformance levels are introduced at the beginning of this section without context (Bronze, Silver, Gold ratings). Could this be introduced earlier in the document, in the Introduction and/or Structure sections? In the Scoring section (and the Critical Errors section) it might be good to clarify the outcome of critical errors on scoring, and to point out that any critical errors (called “failures” in the Scoring section) will result in a Very Poor (0) score for that functional outcome and no conformance rating for the scoped test of the content or product. Editorial changes would make the section more readable and clear, but are not required for public review. |
Laura Carlson | This section can be published as it is now. | Spelling error in "5.1.1.1 Traditional Tests": "accessibilty" should be "accessibility" |
Shari Butler | This section can be published as it is now. | |
Janina Sajka | This section can be published as it is now. | |
Peter Korn | This section has significant areas that must be updated before we publish the FPWD. | +1 to Sarah - "view" is a very important, new concept in WCAG 3 and needs deeper definition and discussion. Same with "Traditional tests". [and like Sarah, I feel these should be updated, rather than must be, for FPWD] Section 5.2 Evaluation of Scope notes that "Large web sites are impractical to evaluate comprehensively using anything beyond automated traditional tests", but then suggests the only way to address that is by setting the scope to be less than the entire site. Particularly given the deep analysis of the challenges with Accessibility Guidelines Conformance and Testing that we documented in https://www.w3.org/TR/accessibility-conformance-challenges/, the Evaluation Section needs to do more than suggest nothing need change for Bronze in Silver. Finally, whether here, or in the Conformance section, it is very important that we give much clearer guidance ands show at least one example showing how a scoped set of processes and views that doesn't have zero failures would score, and whether that score could be at least 3.5 and thus achieve Bronze. This is too critical a scenario to leave unaddressed in a FPWD. We spent a lot of time over the last couple of months looking at detailed scoring examples, discussing when a portion of a view is on a critical path or not, etc. At least a first draft of that idea should be in the FPWD of Silver, so we can get comments and feedback. |
Detlev Fischer | ||
Michael Gower | ||
David MacDonald | I don't think we should use "traditional tests" as the former WCAG tests. The word Traditional these days has a negative connotation. It sounds stiff, old and not progressive. This is particularly true when its juxtaposed with the progressive, modern term "holistic" . I would suggest WCAG 2 is holistic. I think we could use terms such as "base tests" and "Outcome tests" | |
Shawn Lauriat | This section can be published as it is now. | …with "as it is now" to mean with the editorial changes discussed during AG WG's September 1 call. +1 to Jeanne's & Francis' notes. |
The Conformance section of WCAG 3.0 is normative, and outlines how to claim conformance.
Please review and comment if there are things you think should be changed.
Choice | All responders |
---|---|
Results | |
This section can be published as it is now. | 6 |
This section has several areas that should be updated, or include edtiorial notes. | 1 |
This section has significant areas that must be updated before we publish the FPWD. | 3 |
(6 responses didn't contain an answer to this question)
Responder | Conformance | Comments |
---|---|---|
Jeanne F Spellman | This section can be published as it is now. | I like how the Conformance has built on the details of the functional outcomes to arrive at Bronze, Silver, and Gold levels. The group that is working on Silver and Gold plan to have those details ready for the next Working Draft. |
Jonathan Avila | ||
Todd Libby | This section can be published as it is now. | |
Francis Storr | This section can be published as it is now. | I like the Bronze, Silver, and Gold works well and I'm looking forward to seeing more detail on the holistic tests for Silver and Gold. Do we need a formal term for an application that doesn't conform to Bronze? |
Jake Abma | ||
Frederick Boland | This section has several areas that should be updated, or include edtiorial notes. | Conformance claim should include what hardware/software/assistive technology was used in interacting with the content mentioned in the claim |
Bruce Bailey | This section can be published as it is now. | |
Sarah Horton | This section has significant areas that must be updated before we publish the FPWD. | Editorial changes are needed to make the section readable and clear. Also, make sure each section has a description (provide basic examples rather than TBD). |
Laura Carlson | ||
Shari Butler | This section can be published as it is now. | |
Janina Sajka | This section has significant areas that must be updated before we publish the FPWD. | This section is more complicated than it needs to be. It confuses a testing report with conformance claims. Especially where conformance claims may be disuputed, no adjudication venue will care much about some date in the past. Rather, the interest will be in whether the claim can be defended as of the time of examination. Furthermore, in order for a prior dated claim to be defensible, it would be necessary to store a deeply complete snapshot of all relevant technologies, which will impossible for large, complex sites. |
Peter Korn | This section has significant areas that must be updated before we publish the FPWD. | See comments about conformance in the introduction - they also apply here (and should get more treatment here vs. in Introduction). This section should also recognize and reference the challenges with accessibility guidelines conformance in https://www.w3.org/TR/accessibility-conformance-challenges/ and note which of those challenges the FPWD draft speaks to, and which we expect to address in future revisions. |
Detlev Fischer | ||
Michael Gower | ||
David MacDonald | ||
Shawn Lauriat | This section can be published as it is now. | …with "as it is now" to mean with the editorial changes discussed during AG WG's September 1 call. |
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