- From: Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org>
- Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 14:17:30 +0100
- To: public-multilingualweb-lt@w3.org
- Message-ID: <51276FEA.7060508@w3.org>
Hi Mauricio, all,
this is now
https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/118
Am 22.02.13 14:06, schrieb Mauricio del Olmo:
>
> Yes, of course.
>
> We can modify the CAT tool filter
>
I understand, but that modification is unrelated to ITS metadata, no?
> to adapt it to this defaults. The CAT tool filter is specific for this
> project, part of the solution and will be documented.
>
What I still don't understand: obviously the CAT tool cannot process ITS
files, correct? So if somebody writes a rule like this
<its:translateRule selector="//@h:title" translate="no"/>
It will always be overriden in a "non ITS processing step" by the CAT
tool, right?
So what are then the value of the ITS rules at all, if the CAT tool has
ITS unspecific defaults ?
Best,
Felix
> Best,
>
> *__________________________________*
>
> *Mauricio del Olmo Martínez*
>
> *Dpto. Técnico/I+D+i*
>
> *Linguaserve Internacionalización de Servicios, S.A.*
>
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> *__________________________________*
>
> *De:*Felix Sasaki [mailto:fsasaki@w3.org]
> *Enviado el:* viernes, 22 de febrero de 2013 14:01
> *Para:* Mauricio del Olmo
> *CC:* public-multilingualweb-lt@w3.org
> *Asunto:* Re: ACTION-447: Make a batch transformation of the test
> suite to xliff
>
> Am 22.02.13 13:32, schrieb Mauricio del Olmo:
>
> Hi Felix.
>
> In our case, the final behavior for the standard HTML attributes
> (alt, title, summary) is given by the rules defined in the CAT
> tool XML-HTML compatible filter.
>
> This filter has defined that, by default, the attributes that are
> expected to have translatable content will be unblocked and
> therefore editable by the translators/reviewers.
>
> Hope this clarifies this case in our localization workflow.
>
>
> It clarifies things - but it's a bit strange: you implement ITS
> metadata, but when assume ITS unrelated defaults later in the workflow.
>
> I think the minimun we should do is to align the various "default"
> behaviours - ideally with HTML5
>
> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21085
>
>
> Best,
>
> Felix
>
>
> Cheers.
>
> *__________________________________*
>
> *Mauricio del Olmo Martínez*
>
> *Dpto. Técnico/I+D+i*
>
> *Linguaserve Internacionalización de Servicios, S.A.*
>
> *Tel.: +34 91 761 64 60 ext. 0421
> Fax: +34 91 542 89 28 *
>
> *E-mail: **tecnico@linguaserve.com <mailto:tecnico@linguaserve.com>*
>
> *www.linguaserve.com <http://www.linguaserve.com/>*
>
> **
>
> *«En cumplimiento con lo previsto con los artículos 21 y 22 de la Ley
> 34/2002, de 11 de julio, de Servicios de la Sociedad de Información y
> Comercio Electrónico, le informamos que procederemos al archivo y
> tratamiento de sus datos exclusivamente con fines de promoción de los
> productos y servicios ofrecidos por LINGUASERVE INTERNACIONALIZACIÓN
> DE SERVICIOS, S.A. En caso de que Vdes. no deseen que procedamos al
> archivo y tratamiento de los datos proporcionados, o no deseen recibir
> comunicaciones comerciales sobre los productos y servicios ofrecidos,
> comuníquenoslo a clients@linguaserve.com
> <mailto:clients@linguaserve.com>, y su petición será inmediatamente
> cumplida.»*
>
> **
>
> *"According to the provisions set forth in articles 21 and 22 of Law
> 34/2002 of July 11 regarding Information Society and eCommerce
> Services, we will store and use your personal data with the sole
> purpose of marketing the products and services offered by LINGUASERVE
> INTERNACIONALIZACIÓN DE SERVICIOS, S.A. If you do not wish your
> personal data to be stored and handled, or you do not wish to receive
> further information regarding products and services offered by our
> company, please e-mail us to clients@linguaserve.com
> <mailto:clients@linguaserve.com>. Your request will be processed
> immediately.”*
>
> *__________________________________*
>
> *De:*Felix Sasaki [mailto:fsasaki@w3.org]
> *Enviado el:* viernes, 22 de febrero de 2013 13:09
> *Para:* Yves Savourel
> *CC:* public-multilingualweb-lt@w3.org
> <mailto:public-multilingualweb-lt@w3.org>
> *Asunto:* Re: ACTION-447: Make a batch transformation of the test
> suite to xliff
>
> Thanks a lot for your replies, Yves and Fredrik. You nearly convinced
> me. Also, we should probably make sure that the outcome of
> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21085
> with the rule set.
>
> Why I wrote "nearly": in the below you write about HTML5 (and its
> successor, I assume) - but what about XHTML and the other HTML
> flavours? I am having here again the Linguaserve workflow in mind. Do
> we then require (or suggest via SHOULD) Linguaserve to process against
> the default rule set in the XHTML workflow?
>
> Also, a detail: the rules would have no influence on precedence and
> overriding, etc. right? - they are kind of assuming that each HTML
> element has an "invisible linked or external rules file" - which has
> the lowest precedence compared to other rules, but a higher one than
> inheritance? E.g.
>
> <span its-within-text="no"><span> ...</span></span>
>
> the inner span would be overriden by the
>
> <its:withinTextRule withinText="yes"
> selector="//h:abbr | //h:acronym | //h:br | //h:cite | //h:code | //h:dfn
> | //h:kbd | //h:q | //h:samp | //h:span | //h:strong | //h:var | //h:b | //h:em
> | //h:big | //h:hr | //h:i | //h:small | //h:sub | //h:sup | //h:tt | //h:del
> | //h:ins | //h:bdo | //h:img | //h:a | //h:font | //h:center | //h:s | //h:strike
> | //h:u | //h:isindex" />
>
>
> Taken from
> http://www.w3.org/TR/xml-i18n-bp/#relating-its-plus-xhtml
>
> Best,
>
> Felix
>
>
> Am 22.02.13 03:13, schrieb Yves Savourel:
>
> All good points Felix,
>
>
>
> see inline...
>
>
>
> OK ... but in the example below Fredrik said that Okapi specifies
>
> keywords to be translatable as a default. Can we expect that this is a default
>
> for all HTML filters?
>
>
>
> That's what we have in our default currently (after all keywords are translatable...)
>
> But it should be whatever the WG decide should be the default rules.
>
>
>
>
>
> And related: Fredrik wrote "One of the default global html5 rules (in Okapi)
>
> specifies <meta name="keywords"…’s content to be translatable".
>
> Is this really a global rule (which somebody who knows where it is stored
>
> could modify), or a default, non ITS rules based processing?
>
>
>
> In our case it's a real rule.
>
> (Seehttp://goo.gl/GRIk3 we have actually 2 sets: the 'strict' one is used for running the test cases)
>
>
>
> But does it matter? The bottom line is that the behavior of a processor that says "I support the HTML5 default rules" is the same, whether it is realized by internal rules or hard-coded statements.
>
>
>
>
>
> Also, would the link be to a rules file in the spec or in the wiki
>
> (so that more easily it could be updated)? For the need to do that see e.g.
>
> here: HTML5.1 will have new elements, e.g.
>
> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-extensions/raw-file/tip/maincontent/index.html
>
> and we state we are covering HTML5 or its sucessor with ITS2.
>
>
>
> Mmm... I guess it should be in the BP which can be updated.
>
>
>
>
>
> Also ... in the example below two data categories are processed by
>
> Okapi: Translate and Domain. What do we expect from a tool that
>
> only implements domain, with regards to the defaults of data
>
> categories not being implemented?
>
>
>
> They just ignore the rules they don't implement, just like for any other rules file.
>
>
>
>
>
> And asking again (I may have missed the answer, in that case sorry
>
> for that): why was this not needed for ITS 1.0? See
>
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0159.html
>
> ("what I still don't get" part).
>
>
>
> My (current) 2 cents:
>
>
>
> We never dealt with HTML in the ITS 1.0 specification.
>
> The reference to the XHTML rules is just an 'example', like for DITA, TEI, DocBook, etc.
>
>
>
> In 2.0 an ITS processor that support HTML5 is currently only having a very limited expected behavior (id, lang, etc.) but there is nothing in the specification saying for example that title attributes are translatable.
>
>
>
> Sure we can say each filter has to complement the 'raw' behavior with its own set of pre-defined rules. But such rules affect how local markup will be processed. So we would end up with a single HTML5 document marked up with ITS info that will have two different outputs with two different tools as each tools would set its own defaults.
>
> By providing at least a default set of rules to complement the 'raw' behavior, we provide the authors with at least a base for their local markup.
>
>
>
> cheers,
>
> -yves
>
>
>
>
>
Received on Friday, 22 February 2013 13:18:00 UTC