ISSUE-167: Example of Bidirectional Text ⓒ

Example of Bidirectional Text ⓒ

State:
CLOSED
Product:
css-writing-modes
Raised by:
Richard Ishida
Opened on:
2012-07-25
Description:
THREAD: http://www.w3.org/Mail/flatten/index?subject=I18N-ISSUE-167&list=www-style


Example of Bidirectional Text
http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-writing-modes/#bidi-example

I've been meaning to say for some years now that this is a very bad example. It should use dedicated bidi specific markup (see http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-bidi-css-markup#markup "You should therefore use dedicated bidi markup whenever it is available. Do not simply attach CSS styling to a general element to achieve the effect."). Here is an proposal for an alternative version of parts of the example.

<HEBREW dir="rtl">
<PAR>HEBREW1 HEBREW2 english3 HEBREW4 HEBREW5</PAR>
<PAR>HEBREW6 <EMPH>HEBREW7</EMPH> HEBREW8</PAR>
</HEBREW>
<ENGLISH dir="ltr">
<PAR>english9 english10 english11 HEBREW12 HEBREW13</PAR>
<PAR>english14 english15 english16</PAR>
<PAR>english17 <HE-QUO dir="rtl">HEBREW18 english19 HEBREW20</HE-QUO></PAR>
</ENGLISH>

/* Rules for bidi */
*[dir=rtl] {direction: rtl; unicode-bidi: embed;}
*[dir=ltr] {direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: embed;}

These generic style rules should be what goes in the separate style sheet.

Also, we recommend not using bidi markup unless you need to change the base direction, so if this document had an overall base direction of ltr (either by default, or via <ROOT dir="ltr">), you wouldn't need to have the dir="ltr" after ENGLISH. It may be worth adding a note to that effect.

It's also confusing that the markup is in uppercase, since the uppercase is used to indicate Hebrew characters. Unless you are trying to make a point that the markup uses hebrew element names (which I don't think is necessary here), they should probably be in lowercase.
Related Actions Items:
No related actions
Related emails:
  1. Review of tracker issues for best practices (Part V) (from addison@lab126.com on 2015-04-09)
  2. Re: [css3-writing-modes] i18n-ISSUE-167: Example of Bidirectional Text (from fantasai.lists@inkedblade.net on 2014-06-18)
  3. Re: [css3-writing-modes] i18n-ISSUE-167: Example of Bidirectional Text (from fantasai.lists@inkedblade.net on 2014-06-17)
  4. Re: [css3-writing-modes] i18n-ISSUE-167: Example of Bidirectional Text (from ishida@w3.org on 2014-06-17)
  5. Re: [css3-writing-modes] i18n-ISSUE-167: Example of Bidirectional Text (from ishida@w3.org on 2014-03-24)
  6. Re: [css3-writing-modes] i18n-ISSUE-167: Example of Bidirectional Text (from jirka@kosek.cz on 2012-11-26)
  7. Re: [css3-writing-modes] i18n-ISSUE-167: Example of Bidirectional Text (from fantasai.lists@inkedblade.net on 2012-11-26)
  8. [css3-writing-modes] i18n-ISSUE-167: Example of Bidirectional Text (from ishida@w3.org on 2012-10-17)
  9. I18N-ISSUE-167: Example of Bidirectional Text [.prep-CSS3-writing-modes] (from sysbot+tracker@w3.org on 2012-07-25)

Related notes:

At this point just a few trailing editorial points to clear up, but most of original request done.

Richard Ishida, 17 Jun 2014, 14:49:08

All done now, in my opinion. Suggest we CLOSE.

Richard Ishida, 20 Jun 2014, 11:07:08

Changelog:

Created issue 'Example of Bidirectional Text' nickname owned by Richard Ishida on product .prep-CSS3-writing-modes, description 'Example of Bidirectional Text
http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-writing-modes/#bidi-example

I've been meaning to say for some years now that this is a very bad example. It should use dedicated bidi specific markup (see http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-bidi-css-markup#markup "You should therefore use dedicated bidi markup whenever it is available. Do not simply attach CSS styling to a general element to achieve the effect."). Here is an proposal for an alternative version of parts of the example, which assumes an overall base direction for the document of ltr.

<HEBREW dir="rtl">
<PAR>HEBREW1 HEBREW2 english3 HEBREW4 HEBREW5</PAR>
<PAR>HEBREW6 <EMPH>HEBREW7</EMPH> HEBREW8</PAR>
</HEBREW>
<ENGLISH dir="ltr">
<PAR>english9 english10 english11 HEBREW12 HEBREW13</PAR>
<PAR>english14 english15 english16</PAR>
<PAR>english17 <HE-QUO dir="rtl">HEBREW18 english19 HEBREW20</HE-QUO></PAR>
</ENGLISH>

/* Rules for bidi */
*[dir=rtl] {direction: rtl; unicode-bidi: embed;}
*[dir=ltr] {direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: embed;}

These generic style rules should be what goes in the separate style sheet.

Also, we recommend not using bidi markup unless you need to change the base direction, so if this document had an overall base direction of ltr (either by default, or via <ROOT dir="ltr">), you wouldn't need to have the dir="ltr" after ENGLISH. It may be worth adding a note to that effect.

It's also confusing that the markup is in uppercase, since the uppercase is used to indicate Hebrew characters. Unless you are trying to make a point that the markup uses hebrew element names (which I don't think is necessary here), they should probably be in lowercase.' non-public

Richard Ishida, 25 Jul 2012, 19:00:23

Description changed to 'Example of Bidirectional Text
http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-writing-modes/#bidi-example

I've been meaning to say for some years now that this is a very bad example. It should use dedicated bidi specific markup (see http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-bidi-css-markup#markup "You should therefore use dedicated bidi markup whenever it is available. Do not simply attach CSS styling to a general element to achieve the effect."). Here is an proposal for an alternative version of parts of the example.

<HEBREW dir="rtl">
<PAR>HEBREW1 HEBREW2 english3 HEBREW4 HEBREW5</PAR>
<PAR>HEBREW6 <EMPH>HEBREW7</EMPH> HEBREW8</PAR>
</HEBREW>
<ENGLISH dir="ltr">
<PAR>english9 english10 english11 HEBREW12 HEBREW13</PAR>
<PAR>english14 english15 english16</PAR>
<PAR>english17 <HE-QUO dir="rtl">HEBREW18 english19 HEBREW20</HE-QUO></PAR>
</ENGLISH>

/* Rules for bidi */
*[dir=rtl] {direction: rtl; unicode-bidi: embed;}
*[dir=ltr] {direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: embed;}

These generic style rules should be what goes in the separate style sheet.

Also, we recommend not using bidi markup unless you need to change the base direction, so if this document had an overall base direction of ltr (either by default, or via <ROOT dir="ltr">), you wouldn't need to have the dir="ltr" after ENGLISH. It may be worth adding a note to that effect.

It's also confusing that the markup is in uppercase, since the uppercase is used to indicate Hebrew characters. Unless you are trying to make a point that the markup uses hebrew element names (which I don't think is necessary here), they should probably be in lowercase.'

Richard Ishida, 25 Jul 2012, 19:01:03

Product changed to CSS3-writing-modes

Richard Ishida, 17 Oct 2012, 16:56:59

Description changed to 'THREAD: http://www.w3.org/Mail/flatten/index?subject=I18N-ISSUE-167&list=www-style


Example of Bidirectional Text
http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-writing-modes/#bidi-example

I've been meaning to say for some years now that this is a very bad example. It should use dedicated bidi specific markup (see http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-bidi-css-markup#markup "You should therefore use dedicated bidi markup whenever it is available. Do not simply attach CSS styling to a general element to achieve the effect."). Here is an proposal for an alternative version of parts of the example.

<HEBREW dir="rtl">
<PAR>HEBREW1 HEBREW2 english3 HEBREW4 HEBREW5</PAR>
<PAR>HEBREW6 <EMPH>HEBREW7</EMPH> HEBREW8</PAR>
</HEBREW>
<ENGLISH dir="ltr">
<PAR>english9 english10 english11 HEBREW12 HEBREW13</PAR>
<PAR>english14 english15 english16</PAR>
<PAR>english17 <HE-QUO dir="rtl">HEBREW18 english19 HEBREW20</HE-QUO></PAR>
</ENGLISH>

/* Rules for bidi */
*[dir=rtl] {direction: rtl; unicode-bidi: embed;}
*[dir=ltr] {direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: embed;}

These generic style rules should be what goes in the separate style sheet.

Also, we recommend not using bidi markup unless you need to change the base direction, so if this document had an overall base direction of ltr (either by default, or via <ROOT dir="ltr">), you wouldn't need to have the dir="ltr" after ENGLISH. It may be worth adding a note to that effect.

It's also confusing that the markup is in uppercase, since the uppercase is used to indicate Hebrew characters. Unless you are trying to make a point that the markup uses hebrew element names (which I don't think is necessary here), they should probably be in lowercase.'

Richard Ishida, 16 Sep 2015, 07:54:19

title changed to 'Example of Bidirectional Text ⓒ'

Richard Ishida, 15 Oct 2015, 05:56:25

Status changed to 'closed'

Richard Ishida, 19 Oct 2015, 13:16:09


Addison Phillips <addison@amazon.com>, Chair, Richard Ishida <ishida@w3.org>, Bert Bos <bert@w3.org>, Fuqiao Xue <xfq@w3.org>, Atsushi Shimono <atsushi@w3.org>, Staff Contacts
Tracker: documentation, (configuration for this group), originally developed by Dean Jackson, is developed and maintained by the Systems Team <w3t-sys@w3.org>.
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