Meeting minutes
<Chuck> Thanks Olivia!
<Chuck> nononononononononono. And no. Don't run a meeting and scribe.
Announcements
maryjom: Announcements - Work slowly progressing. Lot of people out from sub groups.
maryjom: Did get surveys out this week
dmontalvo: Line and dotted line fix done
dmontalvo: Michael is still working on document changes. Let Mary Jo when to merge.
Project standup and planning
<maryjom> https://
maryjom: We are heavily working on Reflow with open surveys. Make sure you look at other issues with questions. Address concerns as well as proposing content.
maryjom: Just finished PR for Closed Sub-group. Look for email. Doing similar for text command. PR will hopefully be finished by EOD. May push off meeting tomorrow.
maryjom: Once we get in reflow in I am going to ask AGWG to approve for publication
Survey results: Pixel definition draft review
<maryjom> w3c/
<maryjom> https://
maryjom: 1. Review and comparison of Note 1 & 2 in proposal 1 with Note 1 in proposal 2
maryjom: Slight preference with P2
maryjom: I proposed a amalgamation of the two
bruce_bailey: I like P1 because of direct reference to CSS reference pixel
Chuck: If it is not needed, would that mean you prefer Option 2?
bruce_bailey: yes
<maryjom> What exists in WCAG 2.2 for CSS pixel definition:
<maryjom> visual angle of about 0.0213 degrees
<maryjom> A CSS pixel is the canonical unit of measure for all lengths and measurements in CSS. This unit is density-independent, and distinct from actual hardware pixels present in a display. User agents and operating systems should ensure that a CSS pixel is set as closely as possible to the CSS Values and Units Module Level 3 reference pixel [css3-values], which takes into account the physical dimensions of the display and the assumed viewing distan[CUT]
<maryjom> be determined by content authors).
<bruce_bailey> /www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/WCAG2ICT-CSS-pixels/results#xq1/permalink//www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/WCAG2ICT-CSS-pixels/results#xq1
<bruce_bailey> https://
<bruce_bailey> s/permalink: https://
maryjom: To answer question, there is already a link to that. Maybe that changes my proposal a little bit.
<maryjom> Note 1: Non-web software and its accompanying platform software do not use CSS pixel measurements. Therefore, platform-defined density-independent pixel measurements which approximate the CSS reference pixel should be used. Examples of platform-defined density-independent pixel measurements include: points (pt) in iOS and macOS, density-independent pixels (dp) for Android, and effective pixels (epx) for Windows.
<bruce_bailey> +1 for combination
mitch11: I like "approximate" - the pixels aren't all to the hundredth place. I see that you included Note 2. I think it helps us cover all the bases.
mitch11: Is EPX actually defined?
Sam: EPX is defined in Microsoft documentation
Sam: I like note 1, but note 2 still complicated.
<Sam> 1/96 of an inch px
<bruce_bailey> +1 for "approximate"
<Sam> THe meeting ended?
<Chuck> yep seems so
<Chuck> going back in.
<dmontalvo> -me needs to go for another meeting. Double-checking if you are able to continue without me
<maryjom> my meeting went away.
<FernandaBonnin> same, and I cannot join again?
<Sam> A meeting host or co host needs to join and let people in the meeting
<Chuck> I'm trying to join, but not letting me.
<mitch11> what bruce said, same issue for me
<Chuck> We could jump on another zoom, but we really ought not put the link in irc.
<Sam> I am also unable to join. it says the meet host has another meeting
<shadi> jump to https://
<Chuck> +1 for ag zoom
FernandaBonnin: I do not have problem with word approximate. Should verify examples.
mitch11: I have verified for iOS and Android. For Mac and Windows we should re-verify. Matter of whether viewing distance is reasonable.
bruce_bailey: Do we want to try and ping guy who has commented on contrast and pixels? Or anyone on CSS group?
<maryjom> Proposed note 1: Note 1: Non-web software and its accompanying platform software do not use CSS pixel measurements. Therefore, platform-defined density-independent pixel measurements which approximate the CSS reference pixel should be used. Examples of platform-defined density-independent pixel measurements include: points (pt) in iOS and macOS, density-independent pixels (dp) for Android, and effective pixels (epx) for Windows.
<bruce_bailey> yes, Chris Lilley
<maryjom> Poll: Are you all ok with Note 1, provided the examples given do approximate the CSS pixel for the given platforms.
<FernandaBonnin> +1
+1
<mitch11> +1
<bruce_bailey> +1
<ShawnT> +1
<Devanshu> +1
<maryjom> +1
<Sam> +1
<maryjom> Draft resolution: Incorporate Note 1, as above, provided the examples given do approximate the CSS pixel for the given platforms.
<bruce_bailey> +1
<FernandaBonnin> +1
+1
<mitch11> +1
<maryjom> +1
<ShawnT> +1
<Sam> +1
RESOLUTION: Incorporate Note 1, as above, provided the examples given do approximate the CSS pixel for the given platforms.
<maryjom> Note 2: A platform might define a density-independent pixel, yet not document it publicly. On a platform with both a web browser and non-web software, it is possible to obtain the density-independent pixel by observing a web page element whose size in CSS pixels is known.
maryjom: Onto note 2
mitch11: For brevity I think we can leave out
<bruce_bailey> i am also not a fan of note 2, +1 to sam earlier
<maryjom> Draft resolution: Do not include note 2.
<Sam> +1
<bruce_bailey> +1
<FernandaBonnin> +1
+1
<mitch11> +1
<maryjom> +1
<ShawnT> +1
RESOLUTION: Do not include note 2.
<maryjom> https://
maryjom: May not finish this today, another one where and amalgamation has been proposed.
maryjom: stong preference for P2, but there is a variation as well that people may like.
maryjom: Mitch came up with a proposal that combines and slight edits
mitch11: My proposal is half of P1 and half of P2
mitch11: All other proposals getting at using the calculation. We want to say use this calculation. Not clear which is the "do it" and which is the background explanation. All word-smithing.
maryjom: A little more time to see how Olivia's edits could work into Mitchell's
mitch11: The word "optimal" is not optimal. It implies too much and raises questions. Otherwise all a matter of whatever is clearest.
maryjom: We will do word-smithing offline.
<maryjom> Poll: Do you have an issue with Mitch's proposal?
No issues other that edits
<Zakim> bruce_bailey, you wanted to request surveys re-open and to
<Sam> is complicated. But if the group wants it in we need to make it as clear as possible
maryjom: Will make new survey to keep working these
maryjom: Two other surveys open, please take a look