See also: IRC log
<scribe> scribe: Rich
fred: no
<shepazu> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/33280/pointer-events-2016/
doug: The timeline for the pointer events working group charter came to a close. If any AC reps are interested this is a useful thing for accessibility
<chaals> action-1602?
<trackbot> action-1602 -- Charles McCathie Nevile to Find some stem graphics to consider as use cases -- due 2015-06-26 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/svg-a11y-tf/track/actions/1602
Topic Action 1602
Action-1602?
<trackbot> Action-1602 -- Charles McCathie Nevile to Find some stem graphics to consider as use cases -- due 2015-06-26 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/svg-a11y-tf/track/actions/1602
Charles: I do want to keep
that.
... the use cases I have been working on are simple at the
moment
<chaals> action-1602 due in 3 months
<trackbot> Set action-1602 Find some stem graphics to consider as use cases due date to 2016-06-02.
Charles: Want the date moved out 3 months
action-1603?
<trackbot> action-1603 -- Charles McCathie Nevile to Work with jasonw, markkuh and the universe to discover how people do interaction… -- due 2015-07-17 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/svg-a11y-tf/track/actions/1603
Charles: I am close this as not going to get done as action
RESOLUTION: Close action-1603
action-1753?
<trackbot> action-1753 -- Jason White to Look at svg in gamepadapi, push api, etc due 20160113 -- due 2016-01-15 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/svg-a11y-tf/track/actions/1753
fred: Jason and I went through this. I have a later topic on this
action-2001?
<trackbot> action-2001 -- Amelia Bellamy-Royds to Draft a new definition of including elements that requires title/description to be non-empty. -- due 2016-01-22 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/svg-a11y-tf/track/actions/2001
amelia: there are 3 items in ther that fall under the new language in the svg-aam spec.
<fesch> action-2002
<trackbot> action-2002 -- Amelia Bellamy-Royds to Draft new language for svg-aam. -- due 2016-01-22 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/svg-a11y-tf/track/actions/2002
<fesch> action-2004
<trackbot> action-2004 -- Amelia Bellamy-Royds to Look into github issue #137 -- due 2016-01-22 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/svg-a11y-tf/track/actions/2004
amelia: I have not started on these yet but I am going to modify the SVG definitions which we can use in both specs.
<AmeliaBR> http://ameliabr.github.io/svgwg/build/publish/render.html#RenderingTree
amelia: basically this adds up to
creating standard definitions for elements that are rendered or
not rendered
... an important thing on how this cascades into the
accessibility mappings. invisible and rendered are not the
same
... display:none is not rendered. desc. is not rendered. These
are important as the svg pointer events can be active for on
interactive hit regions even though something is not visibly
rendered
... At the same time this covers all the elements that should
NEVER be rendered as they have no rendering on the screen. … no
mater what you do to these they will not map into the
accessibility tree
... my hope is that by having clear definitions here we can
clarify these in the accessibility mappings
fred: it looks like we don’t have any feedback for either of these.
amelia: I started drafting a section on focus management.
<AmeliaBR> http://ameliabr.github.io/svgwg/build/publish/interact.html#Focus
amelia: Rich had originally
mapped the HTML spec. into the SVG spec.
... the group wanted one code base and resolved to link to the
HTML spec. and now we need to identify the parts of the HTML
spec. that are different.
... have done that by defining focusable and non-focusable
content … including via tabindex
... then we need to add all the new text for keyboard
accessibility.
<AmeliaBR> https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/pull/55
amelia: I will be covering this with the svg working group tomorrow
fred: what is an svg element that has zoom and pan controls.
amelia: zoom and pan are not
currently implemented in any browsers
... the old Adobe SVG viewer was the only one that ever
implemented this.
... the wording have in there states that “if the control
exists” ...
fred: joanie might ask if there is a zoom and pan control for that element
amelia: there is a property that turns them on but it has not been implemented yet
fred: when to include and when to not
Rich: If this has not been implemented it will ultimately go as there needs to be 2 implementations
amelia: at this point it is in the SVG2 spec.
Doug: SVG2 spec. to go to CR in April
Rich: concerned about syncing
ARIA 1.1 with html 5.1 and svg2
... the svg2 spec. points to the html 5.1 spec. but this is not
stable yet. In previous versions we had based ours on html
5
... the html5.1 spec is entirely different from html5
... some controls are absent - like details/summary and
dialog
Charles: the goal is to get html 5.1 done by mid- year without those pieces that are not implemented
amelia: there are modal dialog
boxes and you have disable a lot of tabindex stuff that is
outside the dialog (it becomes inert)
... user controls - there is a controls attribute.
... I could write the phrase with a controls attribute turned
on and off <audio> and <video>
charles: rewrite it so that it is focusable if the user agent puts the controls in there
amelia: the author can say create pause controls but it does not mean the browser will make them for other ones
<chaals> [You could probably do this via the controls IDL attribute, but I'd need to check that]
amelia: for a testable statement … it is a 2-step. The author adds the controls addribute and then there would be a controls on the audio/ video
fred: what about your foreign object that creates a scrollable region?
amelia: it is not something that is really easy to query
fred: my concern is that if we make it difficult to test. But since they can put tabindex on anything.
amelia: I would rather have more
things focusable than things are under user control
... your concern is the wording is too general
fred: you will make conditions that are not testable
charles: for the scrolling case
the browser will know if a region is scrollable
... if you use specific kinds of things you can force
that.
... it is a condition that there is a scroll bar
amelia: I think in all of these
it is easy to create a test to create the situations unlike
zoom and pan that are not implemented
... as far as getting a reasonable test suite it should be
possible
... I have this separate paragraph for links
... is the old Opera you could not get to a link without a
tabindex
... Presto
Rich: all browsers put links in the tab sequence
charles: Presto did not have a full tab cycle with anchors. It did more like forms mode in jaws
amelia: it would be my preference as an author to not get anchors be in the tab sequence by default
: http://ameliabr.github.io/svgwg/build/publish/interact.html#Focus
amelia: I will see what the svg
working group says about this. it would be good to have the
focusable attribute from svg tiny 1.2
... you could have anything with a title/tooltip it is an
optional friendly thing to provide a keyboard way to reveal the
tooltip
... the text is based on what is in the html spec.
... non-rendered text does not receive focus
... I pulled text out from HTML regarding activation
behavior.
... if you have something focusable by tabindex you can make it
clickable via script
... I will bring this up at the SVG working group
tomorrow
... please try to review beforehand
... i do have cleanup for the accessibility mappings
Action-2003?
<trackbot> Action-2003 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Investigate how role=none interacts with other aria- attributes, in other aria specs. -- due 2016-03-01 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/svg-a11y-tf/track/actions/2003
Action-2008?
<trackbot> Action-2008 -- Doug Schepers to define authoring practices related to links -- due 2016-02-02 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/svg-a11y-tf/track/actions/2008
fred: this is authoring practices relative to links
Rich: I did speak with David Bolter at Mozilla to focus on Mozilla, waiting for them to get back
fred: What do we want to do with authoring practices
amelia: I would like one at some point
fred: is it ok if we just track ideas in the mean time on a wiki?
amelia: that is a start
... do you have a work in progress?
charles: I have a pile of pieces
<scribe> ACTION: charles find out where the authoring pieces are [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/03/02-svg-a11y-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2016 - Find out where the authoring pieces are [on Charles McCathie Nevile - due 2016-03-09].
charles: there is a scratch space here:
<chaals> scratch space for authoring guidance
<chaals> close action-2016
<trackbot> Closed action-2016.
fred: Does that work to put whatever you need in there?
RESOLUTION: use that GitHub repo scratch space for accessible practices
Rich: people in the education publishing industry will be meeting with me next week on svg a11y
fred: I was talking with Jason
last week on game pad to discuss what should be done
... the examples are not accessible
... we would need to redraw the entire image to make it
accessible
... what do people feel we should do with these?
amelia: I don’t think we want to do as a representation of good practices to have to have to rip apart things and rebuild them
chaals: I diametrically
disagree
... if that means that we need to rip things apart and start
again then so be it. If we had the guidelines to start we would
not have a problem.
... if we start badly down the wrong way you are not going ot
have a good time
... while we many not be able to rip down every diagram from
the spec., we should point out what needs to be done and do a
couple of them. they would be able to then do things more
efficiently
amelia: do a certain point that
makes sense. so, need to do proper grouping.
... what I am looking at came right out of inkscape
chaals: strip it down to its
component parts and restructure
... we need to write down exactly what we did to redo
things
fred: do we want to try to fix every w3c document that comes through?
chaals: we can’t ignore them and
say they be fine.
... there is a set of diagrams that are all related. … take one
of the ones I did and turn it into the other diagrams.
... there is no magic
fred: in reviews we will drag
people into this group and try to do something for them
... every document is written by a differnt group or task
force
... if we go through 160 specs. we will have 400 people that
will know how to do it right
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.144 of Date: 2015/11/17 08:39:34 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/so that the user agent/so that it is focusable if the user agent/ Succeeded: s/wiki/GitHub repo/ Succeeded: s/ciagrams/diagrams/ Succeeded: s/not how/know how/ Found Scribe: Rich Inferring ScribeNick: Rich Present: chaals WARNING: Fewer than 3 people found for Present list! WARNING: No meeting title found! You should specify the meeting title like this: <dbooth> Meeting: Weekly Baking Club Meeting Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-a11y/2016Feb/0073.html Got date from IRC log name: 02 Mar 2016 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2016/03/02-svg-a11y-minutes.html People with action items: charles WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]