W3C

- DRAFT -

Accessible Platform Architectures Working Group Teleconference

13 Jan 2016

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
LJWatson, fesch, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, janina, Joanmarie_Diggs, JF
Regrets
Chair
SV_MEETING_CHAIR
Scribe
fesch

Contents


preview agenda with items from two minutes

<scribe> scribe: fesch

what agendum is this?

js: news items?

rs: Samsung US is moving to dpub

APA Housekeeping http://www.w3.org/2015/10/apa-charter.html

js: we have tracker set up anything else?

mc: all is set up, wiki, tracker... please abandon the the PF tracker
... we are ready to request PF tracker be shut down

js: wiki for logging specs... provides bread crumbs... that may be remaining infrastructure

mc: I am putting specs in the wiki as we look at them
... I haven't copied stuff from the PF wiki to APA wiki, spec reviews are new
... need to change password...

js: membership - James N (Oracle) lost, he couldn't get approval for another group, Cynthia not yet in... we are thin on browser support (only Yandex)

Actions Review (Specs) http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/open

<MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/products/8

<MichaelC> close action-1763

<trackbot> Closed action-1763.

js: digital publishing will meet with us next week

<LJWatson> Pointer Lock https://w3c.github.io/pointerlock/

lw: have question on pointer lock

<MichaelC> http://www.w3.org/TR/uievents/

<MichaelC> action-1749: http://www.w3.org/TR/uievents/

<trackbot> Notes added to action-1749 Review ui events.

<MichaelC> action-1750: http://www.w3.org/TR/uievents/

<trackbot> Notes added to action-1750 Review ui events.

js: I don't see anyone setting up a UI without using ARIA, data changing on the fly, we may want them to make them say that in their spec. they have a section on security, so maybe we want an accessibility statement

<MichaelC> http://www.w3.org/tr/webmidi/

js: do we want to ask for sections on accessibility?

jf: At TPAC we talked about this and we have this as a global need as well

js: I don't want to close this action without some comfort that accessibility is being addressed, maybe we want to point them to authoring guide
... think about a statement for it

new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html

rs: those are the UI events from HTML is there anything new?

js: that is a question, we may be able to close it?

<MichaelC> Gamepad

<MichaelC> ACTION: Léonie to review Gamepad https://www.w3.org/TR/gamepad/ [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/01/13-apa-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2001 - Review gamepad https://www.w3.org/tr/gamepad/ [on Léonie Watson - due 2016-01-20].

<MichaelC> Requirements for WCAG 2.0 Extensions

<MichaelC> Webmention

<MichaelC> Social Web Protocols

<MichaelC> ACTION: fesch to review Social Web Protocols https://www.w3.org/TR/social-web-protocols/ [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/01/13-apa-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2002 - Review social web protocols https://www.w3.org/tr/social-web-protocols/ [on Fred Esch - due 2016-01-20].

<MichaelC> Data on the Web Best Practices

lw: found email requesting us look at presentation API on Nov 6

<LJWatson> Presentation API http://w3c.github.io/presentation-api/

jd: interested in topic, next couple of weeks is tough

<MichaelC> ACTION: joanie to review Presentation API https://www.w3.org/TR/presentation-api/ - due 17 Feb [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/01/13-apa-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2003 - Review presentation api https://www.w3.org/tr/presentation-api/ [on Joanmarie Diggs - due 2016-02-17].

Pending CSS Flexbox CR http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-flexbox-1/

js: rich wrote up a email explaining the concern
... CSS has some good approaches, but haven't documented them
... we may need to ask them to document it... lets remember what was said at TPAC

<janina> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2016Jan/0025.html

rs: flexbox changes the DOM order which is different than visible order.... if the flexbox order is meaningful then tabindex should follow flexbox order
... young designers want to use it and it causes accessibility problems, creates work, folks with disability get a worse experience and accessibility folks look like meanies,
... totally preventable ... by having flexbox affect the tab and read order

<janina> TPAC Discussion: http://www.w3.org/2015/10/30-apa-minutes.html

rs: we have the same issue in WCAG 1 .... we are repeating history...
... similar problem with content injection
... representative of a bigger problem, CSS working group needs to work on interoperability

js: agree with you rich

fe: round display and grid layout have the same issue

<JF> Jesse Beach

lw: in Sapporo, Jesse (facebook) presented a demo, had discussion about Firefox's attempt to resolve the problem, which doesn't change DOM or API but does something in the middle

jn: kind of works, affects keyboard sequence by not AT read order... two sequences are different in Firefox, other browsers may have wrong order but both orders the same

lw: in the browser is where stuff needs to happen

js: CSS need to document stuff they haven't yet documented, we may object to spec moving forward...

<JF> +1 to Janina's point(s) - fantasai spoke directly to the gaps in documentation

rs: happy to work with browser vendors, but CSS has to help and document, history is repeating
... we don't know what CSS next steps are...

js: I promised a response this week, fairly well recorded in minutes at TPAC...
... thought the FF approach could work.... CSS wants to move to PR sometime around May

<richardschwerdtfeger> ack

js: need to have gap covered, documented or steps moving forward
... don't mind stuff moving to CR as long as we can ask for changes in CR...

Draft APA Decision Policy http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/decision-policy

zakim takeup item 6

Proposed Final Design for W3C Technical Reports http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2016Jan/0007.html

js: standard practice vs what WCAG requires
... for links
... WCAG on requires that it be recognized that a link be recognized as a link
... we didn't find anything where WCAG says the foreground and background color changes...
... will cast the net wider, this is a major enough issue, that I can write this up for the WAI list
... comments?

jf: One issue - when you have an actionable item, need a color identifier, the underline is not
... WCAG does not talk about identification of actionable items...
... I think actionable items need a contrast ratio

js: we need color contrast, do we want the text for a link need a different color?

jf: low vision user needs to be able to see and recognize an actionable element

jn: she has modified the color contrast to 3:1
... 4.5 allows you to read, 3:1 can be seen, a survey of 1 said he liked the underlined links

jf: I don't think we have enough data to say 4.5 for text and 3:1 for underline is OK

jn: there is an WCAG understanding document that says you can use color and other (underline) as a way to show it

jf: I disagree

jn: sometimes you need to, how else will you differentiate visited vs unvisited links?
... need the low vision folks to say

js: I should take this to a wider list
... the problem happens when you add the third visited (vs unvisited) link

jn: folks can change their link color

jf: since this is a W3C style guide, we should eat our own dog food...

jn: I think this is a good template that helps people, want to see it adopted....

jf: perhaps my objections are to big...

js: next week we will have dpub and pointerlock

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: fesch to review Social Web Protocols https://www.w3.org/TR/social-web-protocols/ [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/01/13-apa-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: joanie to review Presentation API https://www.w3.org/TR/presentation-api/ - due 17 Feb [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/01/13-apa-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: Léonie to review Gamepad https://www.w3.org/TR/gamepad/ [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/01/13-apa-minutes.html#action01]
 

Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.144 (CVS log)
$Date: 2016/01/13 18:11:34 $

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Succeeded: s/in Sapporo, Jesse (facebook) presented a demo, had discussion, doesn't change DOM and not API something in the middle/in Sapporo, Jesse (facebook) presented a demo, had discussion about Firefox's attempt to resolve the problem, which doesn't change DOM or API but does something in the middle/
Found Scribe: fesch
Inferring ScribeNick: fesch
Present: LJWatson fesch Rich_Schwerdtfeger janina Joanmarie_Diggs JF
Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2016Jan/0023.html

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<dbooth> Chair: dbooth

Found Date: 13 Jan 2016
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2016/01/13-apa-minutes.html
People with action items: fesch joanie l onie

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